Dumbell001's picture
Dumbell001
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Adding either npp or upping try dosage

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Hello guys. So I've been on trt now for 4 years. I've supplemented my trt with anavar, and several times with turanabol, which was really nice. I currently use 20 mgs of test cyp subcutaneously everyday which has virtually allowed me to omit the use of an aromotase inhibitor, although I do keep plenty of 1 mg tabs of anastrozole on hand( love my doctor)which I'll just take a razor blade a take a sliver of here and there occasionally if needed. Usually if I'm sick and not active, I'll get slightly agitated nipples. My question is the following, two pronger?

Before adding low dose npp to my protocol, I'm thinking of just upping my test cyp slowly to 30 mgs per day to 35 and seeing how I respond.

Or should I just stay at 20 mgs of test and add npp?

What I have on hand:

Test cyp( doc prescribed) plus CENSORED labs for the extra

Cabergoline( prescription as well) half mg tabs
Anastrozole( prescription)
Tbol

My doc will be monitoring blood work and is fully versed with NANDROLONE as he does have patients who use it and are prescribed, although I'm not due to not meeting the requirements.

My goal is to add some strength and size.
I however just am not interested in using over 300 mgs of test per week.

Thanks in advance

growthman's picture

To the folks saying 20mg of long ester test sub q Ed is a bad idea; I’d bet his blood levels show upper limit for T, lower limit for E, upper limit for free test. Don’t knock it til you try it (and get blood work). Daily sub q dosing at 10-20mg/day will alleviate the need for an AI or serm.

To the OP; deca is bad for trt. Will take a long time to recover, shrinks blood vessels. You can double your test dose to 20mg every 12 hours and still be under 300mg/wk. Alternatively I’d look into your igf levels. If room to go up I’d consider 2iu of pharma gh/day before considering deca.

Looks like you left us though...

Greg's picture

If you're going to be a dumbbell, couldn't you at least strive to be a 100lb bell and not a 1lb bell?

johnmarshall12's picture

This whole thing sounds crazy! Sub Q shots on AAS suck! Just do TRT protocol right or don't do it at all!

Ozninjaguy's picture

What is the 'right' way? The leader in TRT was Dr John Crisler and he supported daily SQ shots for TRT. So what do YOU think is the right way, and what evidence have you got to support your assertion in the face of world renowned medical opinion?

FYI - the average healthy male produces 4 - 7mg Test PD. Our endocrine system is a highly balanced process of maintaining hormonal homeostasis based upon what hormones our body is producing. Someone on TRT who injects 20+ times the daily production of testosterone in one hit is completely upsetting that balance - regardless of the ester. The concept of daily low dose (10mg) SQ injections is to mimic what the body would naturally produce, thus avoiding reactions such as elevated Estrogen (through the conversion of Test by Aromatase Enzymes...homeostasis remember) and Prolactin and the myriad of issues associated with high Test such as higher red blood cell count, increased BP and BPH (as a result of conversion of Test to DHT by the 5 Alpha-reductase Enzyme AND the higher Estrogen). But hey - your body - do what makes you happy - but just because you do it - doesn't mean that it's correct.

growthman's picture

Applause +1

Ozninjaguy's picture

Thanks mate. The more I research, the more it makes sense. I also forgot to include the muscle trauma/damage/scarring caused by IM injections as opposed to SQ injections. A shot a week of IM times 50 (for a year) times 10 (for 10 years) is a shitload of muscle damage.

growthman's picture

Well I can’t say I love the way my stomach is feeling from our ED subq injects BUT not nearly as bad as the rest of my body from 15-20 years of deep IM injections. My delts have so much scar tissue they’re done. Glutes are so bad that when I would hit them my back would tighten up.

Ozninjaguy's picture

I ran GH for a year doing SQ shots every day and never had a problem...are you using the 3/8" needle 0.5ml ultra fine syringe?

growthman's picture

No I should probably get those as mine are bigger

Ozninjaguy's picture

Get them - just like a mosquito bite. As with GH, it's all about the shot going just under the skin - subcutaneous - no deeper. Skin is only about a milimetre thick (of course it varies depending on the body part) - so you don't need anything long to penetrate that layer and hit the fat. Also use your love handles and the fat on your obliques - rotate. I'm not assuming expert knowledge on SQ TRT - but I did run HGH for a year and never had a problem using the needles/syringes stated. No lumps, no pain, no cysts...nada. Oh - and inject at a 45 degree angle - not straight in, that way you are still SQ and don't hit muscle - just my 2c worth. Try the needles/syringes and let me know.

zeusmarada's picture

To any newbies reading this post, please understand that the OP above has outlined a protocol that is far from ideal, at least in the real world where we have things like work, family, training, etc, to try and balance in our daily lives.

Sure, the idea of having your hormones be level every single day sounds amazing, on paper. But you don't need everyday pins to be "level."

That's what esters are for.

Those wonderful inventions are what keep your hormone levels in balance. God bless cypionate. (Or enanthate, if that's your TRT compound.) It works.

So, newbies, read this post and please understand, it's not realistic. TRT isn't rocket science. Sure, there's a lot that goes on in the human body when you introduce exogenous testosterone to your system, but the application of that introduction is simple. Jam a needle into your glute, inject, come back a week later and rinse, lather, repeat. It sucks, but it's simple. Don't get confused with this nonsense the OP above is chatting about.

Bearded_muscle's picture

I’m not goin deep on this one but if you’re getting itchy nips on 200 mgs of test and you want to add npp get ready to go up a couple cup sizes.

Best of luck man. Not how I’d do it.
I’d add a couple cc’s of primobolan. And skip the npp. But that’s just me.

Also if you need an AI on your trt it’s not trt. It’s a cycle. Or a cruise. Whatever you wanna call it those levels are above what your body is equipped to deal with.

Bearded_muscle's picture

I particularly like the slivers of AI stashed about the house in case an itchy nipple pops up.

monsterD996's picture

Just keep the test the same not sure how much you plan on running of the npp but 200mg would be enough to see results and feel good over all. If you never ran a 19-nor you'll probably get some spiked prog levels or might not get any at all depends on you. For me anything under 400mgs mine stays in a small range. After a week id start @ .5mgs a week of caber and see how it works and adjust accordingly. As for the arimidex go by feel and start at lowest dose possible @.5mgs if need. For me .5mgs every 5th day work good but that's me. Gotta figure it by trial and error and see how it works out. But if never ran nandrolone, 200-250 is a good starting point no need to go higher you'll just get more sides. Hope this helps brother!

Goose24's picture

Ok I'm going to be brutally honest with you bro. This is shit advice. I don't understand how you got to level 2 with advice like this.

"After a week id start @ .5mgs a week of caber and see how it works and adjust accordingly."

How is someone who has never run a 19nor supposed to "adjust according" let me guess by "feel" The only way he's going to know anything is by taking bloods constantly and monitoring his prolactin levels. That's how you dial in prolactin bro without using bro science.

"As for the arimidex go by feel and start at lowest dose possible @.5mgs if need. For me .5mgs every 5th day work good but that's me."

"Go by feel" oh really? What is he "feeling for" you make statements and don't even try to explain yourself.

AGAIN... the only way this dude will know if his e2 is out of range is by take bloods and monitoring blood work consistently given the amount of mg he's taking.

Also when working with a doctor there's no trying to feel anything out. A doctor can see wacky levels after one blood test and tell him to stop his TRT immediately.

I suggest you reconsider giving advice.

monsterD996's picture

Telling him to start at lowest doses possible is shit advice? Hmm... Blood work is obvious and common sense. Unless the guys getting blood work done every month then I'd say it straight advice man. I meant for it to be a starting point until blood were takin then he could adjust from there. I should be a lil more detailed with it. I'm going based off what I've done and been through. Fortunately my docs understanding of my gear use and shoulda took in account the alot are not. I figured after 4 years on trt hed have somewhat of an understanding of how he reacts to AI's hence the doctor prescribing him adex and caber.

giardap's picture

Big Monster, he said he is TRT, but takes a non-TRT dosing regime, gets puffy nips and takes slivers of ai... op is talking bollox and making a fool of anyone giving cycle advice... in this case you. He doesnt need cycle advice, he needs to fuck off and do real TRT or stop lying to either himself or us all.

Also... by way of common sense, you didnt tell him to start at lowest dose. lowest dose would be, the lowest possible amount of test to create enough estrogen to function as a man, plus the remainder of androgens made up by nandrolone. I foolishly like to think of myself as a pseudo-expert on that type of cycle, and I dont have a clue how to truly know what that lowest dose (combo) would actually be, let alone for an individual.

If OP is intelligent (or dumb) enough to prick around with ED dosing of TRT test, but not intelligent enough to dial it in so he doesnt need an ai, and then still cannot dial his ai in, then nobody should be giving him cycle advice.

monsterD996's picture

Went back and re read and definitely skipped a few lines. Guess I shouldn't have tried to respond to this at work. Anyways thanks for taking the time to piece it together bro. Last time I read this stuff at work.

giardap's picture

LOL been there!

Ah I reckon this fella is a guy that was posting in here at some stage last year, doing these daily shots and refusing to dial in his TRT with the doc. Im pretty sure it is the same lad and Id say his post is still on the first age of this trt forum but under a different name.

Cant for the life of me think why a TRT patient would ditch his doc for a mad hatter plan like this!!

Goose24's picture

My mind is blown an actual doctor would even recommend 30mg daily of test cyp.

What kind of pins are you using?

wanted's picture

I heard 1 1/2 inch pin sub c works lovely LOL

In a promo × 1
Goose24's picture

18 gauge too right?

IrishMack's picture

they wont, considering the average male produces 7-10mg a day of test and he is injecting 20mg a day of a long ester into his subcute or fat thinking its a good idea. I would love to see the bloodwork on this dosing schedule. Subcute is a method, but it follows the normal once a week or every two week schedule not every day.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28379417
There is a point of taper though where you wont keep gaining or increasing blood plasma levels but once again it would mean every single injection was perfect.

Doctor will monitor bloodwork, if I told my doctor I was going to do a cycle or add anything other than my prescription I would be looking for another doctor or lose my prescription. Where do people find these doctors?

Another genius who thinks he invented the wheel.

I have to be careful, lately I have been upsetting a lot of snowflakes.

Goose24's picture

Hahaha my opinion... he didn't find this doctor, he invented him in his head haha. You sure are right about the snowflakes lately, can't do anything or say anything without triggering anyone. Sigh.. I wish the old days never went away :/. Oh well part of evolution I guess.

IrishMack's picture

the feminizing of men in America is what it is, almost guarantee you the OP has a manbun and wears skinny jeans.

pickle's picture

Its a damn tragedy! Doctors are recommending anti depressants/anti anxiety instead of TRT to guys with T levels below 200. I know first hand lol. They want our balls in a purse while keeping us numb and dumb.

Goose24's picture

Hahahaha you're probably right fucking dead on!

ShamMasterFlex's picture

Just curious why you want to jump into a 19-nor? I'm guessing you don't want to increase test because you don't want it to show on bloodwork?