+ 55 The Key to Quality Mass - Cyclic Bulking
When most of us design a cycle it is either a traditional bulk where I am going to eat everything in site or a cutting cycle. However, doing your typical bulk where you try to pack on as much weight as possible and follow it with a cutting cycle is not the most efficient way to do things and will likely lead to making it even harder to gain muscle and to strip the fat off in future cycles. Follow with me here and I will try to explain why.
It is a fact that to gain muscle you have to be in a calorie surplus. This is where it gets interesting. You probably know that fat cells are flexible and they will expand to a certain degree to store any excess fat as you are packing down the food in your calorie surplus. Now what happens when these fat cells become full since you have been overeating for an extended period time during your bulk? Your body will make MORE fat cells to provide storage for the extra fat that can no longer be put into your existing fat cells since they are full. This phenomenon is known as hyperplasia. Your body creates new fat cells to store the excess. These new fat cells are now with you forever. This is now going to make your body more efficient at storing fat and ALSO more PRONE to store fat. Now as you are cycling through your traditional bulk then cut cycles it is going to be easier to gain fat during the bulk and harder to lose fat during the cut since you now have more fat cells in your body. There is a way around this fortunately so keep sticking with me and I’ll get to it.
I am sure you have noticed how easy it is to peel off fat when you first start your cut. Your body is cocked and loaded to cut the fat when you first start because your metabolic rate is always at a higher level in the initial stages of the cut but reality soon sets in and the fat becomes harder and harder to get rid of as you get further into the cut. Your body/metabolism adapts to the new calorie restriction.
On the flipside I am sure you notice how quickly you can pack on the mass when you come out of your cutting phase and go into bulking. The gains can be unreal sometimes. The reasoning behind this as far as I could find out is that your previous calorie restriction has optimized your insulin sensitivity and other hormones which spurs your body use the extra calories for muscle gain BEFORE fat storage. As with everything, all good things come to an end. Your body once again adapts and the lean body mass gains slow down.
If you have stuck with me so far, here is how you can actually use these “transitional” phases to your advantage where the gains come fast and the fat melts away just as fast. You do CYCLIC BULKING. You do shorter cycles of bulking and cutting which can be accomplished in the same cycle. You do a short bulk which takes advantage of your increased insulin sensitivity and ramped up hormones to pack some quality mass on and then switch over to a short cutting phase before your hormones adapt and your increased calories start producing NEW fat cells. Basically you are rebooting everything and avoiding the plateaus where you stop gaining muscle and stop losing fat in each phase.
Now you are probably wondering how long these “mini” bulk/cut cycles are supposed to be. From what I have seen the bulk phase could be anywhere from 2-12 weeks followed by 1-4 weeks of cutting. If you are doing a 12 week cycle try bulking for 2 weeks followed by a 1 week cut. This will give you 4 mini-bulk cycles during your full 12 week cycle. You get the idea. You’ll have to try it out and see what works for you but you should know when to stop one and start the other because you will start to plateau with the gains or the fat loss. You are actually trying to avoid that plateau to stay in the most anabolic environment so take note and shorten it for your next mini bulk/cut cycle.
It probably goes without saying but I’ll mention it anyway. You are obviously going to be taking in surplus calories during your bulk but calories are NOT calories. They have to be QUALITY calories. If you are just eating everything in sight you are going to end up short circuiting everything and just put on fat and create new fat cells right away because those junk calories are likely including high glycemic index carbs/sugars which will screw up your insulin sensitivity right away and lead to rapid fat gain and not the quality mass that you are after. Now when you go into your cutting phase you have to be careful that you don’t cut the calories to low which will cause your cortisol levels to spike and also throw all your other hormones out of whack. And as always, don’t skimp on the protein.
GROW BIG
Makwa
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SMART! True is that I always come to a point where the weight stops moving up, takes supreme determination to push it few kg higher and it still doesnt feel right, most probably because these last grams are mostly fat and watter from increased soidum intake, obviously. Gonna give this approach a try!
I’m going to start with a two week cut at the end of the month want to get back down to 15% from 18-20 percent. I’ll follow that up with the two weeks on bulk one week on cut. till I get closer to show time. Wondering if I can transition from bulking to cutting mostly from adding and removing cardio.
Your TDEE vs cals is going to determine if you are in surplus or deficit. If you start doing cardio every day it might put you in a cal deficit but the amount of cals we actually burn with cardio is not that much so really need to track cals to do it right. Bulking we are hitting 500-750 cals above our TDEE. Cardio may burn 250 cals, so I don't think you can transition into cutting based on cardio alone without modifying diet. I would limit the cardio when bulking though because it will help with extra cals needed for bulking.
Makes sense and sounds good. I’ll keep the cardio to a min right now! When you cut is it more advantageous to increase cardio or cut calories. Like say you plateau after cutting for a bit which would you modify first?
This is the best progression I have found when cutting to help avoid plateaus
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/weight-loss/struct...
Ok if carbs isnt the best way to load up on heavy calories to gain mass, what would yall say is the best way to get your calories. Me, i have a fast metabolism and a very active job where im on my feet runninv around for the whole 8hr shift
Nothing wrong with carbs to get your calories. Just don't make them junk carb calories. A bowl of oatmeal is better than eating a couple of twinkies. Eat the sweet potato instead of the donut. Focus more on the lower GI carbs for most of the day and hit your higher GI carbs centered around your workout.
I am now very interested in the cyclic bulking approach as well. I am currently about 6 weeks into a recomp/reset "cycle", but not using gear other than TRT test. I missed 7 of the last 9 months due to illness and injury, so the plan for me is to take the slow and steady from the end of March until the end of August to retrain my body, mind and spirit for excellence in the gym, get bodyfat close to 10% and regain hopefully 115%-120% of lost strength (10%15% increase in strength from where I was at the start of a very long hiatus from the gym brought on by life's bullshit). When I reach that point, hopefully by September, I am going to run a 16-20 week bulking cycle (length will be determined by esters/Sust, NPP, Bold Cyp (16 weeks), vs. Test-E, Deca, EQ (20 weeks)) to set myself up nicely to run a cutter going into Summer of 2019,starting around April.
With all of this being said, I really like the idea of cyclic bulking for 16-20 weeks as opposed to having a relatively unaltered diet for that long.
Thanks again for some more awesome insight Makwa
Fuck yeah! Gonna play this next bulk smart! I'll keep you updated on how I progress. Gonna go with a 3 week bulk, 1 week - 10 day cut. I think by the time that 7-10 days is up, and I start adding in more carbs again, it'll almost have a re-feed affect to where my metabolic rate will jump again, maybe drop off a pound or 2 but manage to stay lean and full. insulin sensitivity will be better, metabolism will partition food better..I'll probably even save some money haha. Alright boss thanks for this suggestion, now I've got to go and look at your anabolic post show rebound approach (if you've wrote one) and get my self ready to hit this up coming growth phase hard!
Thank you Makwa!
Sounds like a good approach. Don't be so rigid and lock yourself into a 3 wk bulk phase. If you are still gaining quality mass keep it going. The whole point is to stretch out the bulking (gaining) phase and then do a reset when plateaud or you notice a switch in nutrient partitioning. The leaner you are when starting the longer it seems you can stretch out the bulk phase. Switch to a reset to early and you are losing gains then.
Pm me if you want about post show rebound.
I’m really not interested in bodybuilding per se. I’m much more in the strength training spectrum. But I still like to stay lean. I’m currently doing a program long term arranged in 4-week mesocycles that involves 3 weeks of balls-to-the-wall training followed by a week-long deload before upping the weight. Would it make sense to do the 3 weeks of mini bulking during the intensity phase and do the mini cut during the deload so as not to affect power performance, or would that cut into my recovery too much?
ClassyChassisAnother idea would be to bulk days 4-24, then cut 25-28, 1-3. So that you are eating well 3 days of the recovery period. Then reducing the last 4 and into the first 3. The will help w the cut as well as prime for next growth period. It doesn't hurt to deplete glycogen a bit in the beginning. Reset insulin sensitivity a tad. This is just a general idea. It would also depend on what days you actually train etc
Another idea you could incorporate is carb cycling throughout where you eat more carbs on bigger days ( squats, deads, pull, cleans, etc.) And then less carbs on any assistance or off days. Again, I don't know how you're structured, but just general principles.
I’m big on keeping my carbs high no matter what. I was planning on reducing my calories mostly through fats for the cut days. I think the whole insulin sensitivity issue is massively overblown, honestly. All the research points to insulin resistance simply not being something most healthy, active people have to ever worry about. If I were sedentary, sure.
ClassyChassisOk sure. But what carbs do is replace liver and muscle glycogen. Carbs>glucose> glycogen> pyruvic acid> Krebs cycle. If your glycogen stores are full, the glucose will be converted to adipose storage.
It doesn't take much to see that a grueling leg or back day consumes more glycogen than an off day. Therefore you need to eat more carbs to replenish. It's like you may need to put 5 gallons of gas in your car if you drive 100 miles. But I guess you also need to put in 5 gallons if you run to the corner and back? It's just going to spill onto the ground ( into fat storage.)
That's cool though. If you're staying as lean as you want then keep doing what you do. Best wishes!
We’re not cars, but I understand your point. If you look at the research and what the best nutritionists in the world are saying, it’s really not that cut and dry. Keeping glycogen stores “full” all the time really isn’t feasible to begin with
And yes, I’m very pleased with my performance and appearance. More pleased than ever since I went high carb. I’ll have to do more research on carb cycling. Thank you for the input!
Time to upload a selfie in that case. Only way to do it is a shirtless photo with your eroids name on a piece of paper. I look forward to it.
Looks like you’re up to your old tricks again!
Fuck it, I put one up anyway. I need to stop being so insecure
It occurred to me there should really be a means to upload videos of lifts here (with edits for identification of course). It seems like this site leans more towards bodybuilding than strength sports, which is very unfortunate. If someone were to compete in a meet, how he or she looks has no bearing on how they would place. Either the weight is lifted properly, or it isn’t. There’s already a place to put half naked pictures up, which is fine, but why the bias towards bodybuilding when plenty of people here have no interest in it?
Plus it would be a great to be able to do form checks. Some of us would be fantastic resources for helping others lift correctly and safely by doing form checks. And yes, I’ve seen pics of people supposedly lifting weights, but anyone can unrack 4 plates and have someone take a picture at the up position. Anyone can upload a pic of himself holding 300 kgs, but who knows if it was deadlifted meet legal or if it was hitched?
For someone who prioritizes performance over cosmetics, uploading a shirtless picture just feels… wrong. It’s like buying a Ducati and just posting up still pictures. Fuck that, people want to see you popping wheelies at 90 mph, not just sitting on it with the kickstand down. I’ll post a picture one day, but that’s just not where my head’s at right now. I’m 100% focused on my program right now and hitting the numbers I have written down week in and week out. I don’t even take selfies at home. Ever. You have to understand, not everyone is like that.
But seriously, has being able to upload vids ever been considered? That would be huge. I’d be the first one to back up my lifts. That’s where my head is at.
Tbh I can’t get over that mental block of “I’m gonna look better in the future.” I have confidence issues for sure. I don’t know why but the idea of uploading a picture just scares me. Pretty sure I developed body dysmorphia over the last few years.
ClassyChassisYou're welcome! Good luck in all your endeavors!
I don't see why it wouldn't work. I don't think it would hurt recovery. Not sure how your 3 weeks of heavy training are structured but if each week progressively includes more volume or intensity you may want to look into something like this. Each week as your training ramps you also ramp up the calories correspondingly. Then for your deload you ramp them back down. Kind of like matching your cals each week to the load you are performing that week. Either method I think would work just fine though.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/i-know-my-tdee%E2%80%A...
Awesome read.. I've carb cycled when cutting, but bulk/cut cycling is very interesting.. I'll will be trying this on my next cycle. This might be easier, than trying to keep a precise balance on my diet, to keep off unnecessary fat. Especially for us guys with low metabolism.. lol. Thanks for the read
I have to give credit where credit is due. Makwa you are one intelligent and knowledgeable dude. I so enjoy reading all of your threads. In the 3-4years ive been here ive learned so much from you along with countless others who drop so much knowledge for us here to soak up and observe. Im so very thankful to you Makwa and the others here who take their time to try and educate us on both the right and wrong ways to do things. Im highly awear of all the time it takes to research these topics and to lay them all out here for us to learn. So I would just like to say and to let you guys know just how thankful I am for you and all that yall contribute to the family here at eroids. I believe I can speak for myself and for so many more others here when I say thank you, thank you for all that yall do. I have nothing but the up most RESPECT and LOVE "no homo" for each and everyone who contributes their vast knowledge.
Great bump. Hopefully Makwa comes back around soon (and hopefully he's well, i haven't seen him drop off since I got here but maybe I just never noticed before). Monster of an asset to the community.
Awesome read. Was just linked this in my post. Very interesting. Will be doing something similar
Its just amazing at the never ending wealth of knowledge to be found on this site. It just amazes me to no end. Thank you for this post Makwa you really know your stuff.
backonroidsGreat help ! Thank you
Thanks for this info man! Very interesting stuff!
I started yesterday. The science doesn't lie. I'm ready
I cannot argue with your logic. Definitely food for thought. Seems like an easier way to go about thigh go rather than the traditional "priming" before a bulk.
It works. Give it a try.
i've redesigned my program and with that my diet/calories on certain days. Would alternating your bulk day and cutting day work as well?. I don't see why not but it would be interesting to get some opinions.
On the each day I would be concentrating my carbs immediately before and after training.
I wouldn't alternate between a "bulk" day and "cutting" day. That seems unnecessary and probably isn't very efficient. This program is designed to be bulking for weeks and cutting for a week or so, not alternating between bulking and cutting each day. If you are talking about carb cycling, that is a totally different concept, which typically is done during a cutting phase while in a calorie deficit.
Carb cycling!!!
good topic, Ben Pakaliski talks about this a lot. i dont let my bodyfat get to high anymore, but i have had times where i did and an approach that i liked to take was right before getting on cycle doing a 4 week mini cut.
if you think about it, if your fat enough (15%+) and its for a short amount of time, a really aggressive cut most likley wont jepordize too much muscle. so for 3-4 weeks BEFORE i would get on cycle i would cut carbs drastically and add in large amounts of cardio. in 3-4 weeks you can easily drop a solid 3-5% body fat. after the 4 week aggressive mini cut, i would start my cycle and set myself up for some nice rebound gains as well. its an approach that has worked well for me. now days i try not to get too fat in the offseason so i havnt had to employ this approach in a few years.
I like this and am actually doing it now before seeing this!
How low do you go on carbs? ~100g? Obviously depends on wt, BF% etc, but for you
I'm 6'2" 232 15-16% right now and taking in 285c on training days and 90 on off days to try to keep some energy to lift heavy, but think it would be worth it to drop to around 150/50?
Also, by aggressive do you mean 1.5-2lb/week or minus 750-1000cal ON TOP of cardio 3-5 days/week? Or more or less aggressive.
Thanks!
(FYI I tried the incredible bulk, but I found the bulks were too extreme and made me put on too much fat, so when I try again I'm going to ramp up the calories like Makwa said, and I also found the reset weeks hard to drop from 500 carbs to 50 and I don't mean like whining about hard work hard I mean like instant depression which I have had problems with and negative energy. Just throwing that experience out there)
Bump it
Good bump, interesting read, I reckon there's alot of opposition to this theory but being 8 weeks into my first cycle I kind of feel I could benefit from such a schedule of calorie surplus/calorie deficit. I'm only on 500mg test and feel that my body has responded very differently to my diet, easy to see how fat can get out of control. Nice one
Very nice, would this principle still work while cruising do you think? Id imagine so but just not to as a dramatic an effect?
fantastic Mak, and if I may add to this my friend I would also suggest matching your training to go with the nutrition manipulation. such as, when in adding mass mode, train hard, heavy take your muscle to failure within 8 to 10 reps, while in caloric deficit ( cutting) drop your intensity, and rest period, crank out more reps till the pump forces you to stop. all the while focusing on mind to muscle connection, getting a full contraction. Mak nailed it, the body will adapt to and slow progression unless you constantly confuse and shock it. excellent post brother!
Great insight into the training aspect!
Really good read, I'll definitely incorporate the principle into my next bulk/cut. The body is like a real person and the fucker is highly adaptive!
Wow , you just impressed the hell out of me with this post , very interesting and makes perfect since, +1
Great post.
I'd read and utilized the anabolic burst cycling program before. It's s really similar principle. It is basically based on the fact that our bodies haven't evolved beyond hunters and gatherers, and we readily store fat to ready ourselves for the famine. Keeping the system in shock helps promote lean growth. The theory was to bulk for 4 weeks, then run calories at maintenance or slightly deficient for a week to two to trick the body to stay in famine mode and keep growing. It really makes a lot of sense.
I'm currently doing 5/3/1 for strength and size and I'm def going to try this on the de load week
Great post makwa I'm guna take mad notes on this and all ur post
Good post bro. So tell me, when you follow this protocol how many weeks do you bulk followed by how many weeks cutting ?
What has been working for me is 4 wk bulking followed by 1 week cut. Bulking phase is 500-750 calories above maintenance and the cut is 250-500 below maintenance. What I also like to do during the bulk phase is ramp the bulk up every week. I think the ramping also helps to keep your metabolism from adjusting. Start at 250 calories above the first week and increase by 250 each wk over the course of 4 weeks and then drop down to 250 below maintenance for a week to reboot things and repeat.