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+ 41 Can Berberine replace Metformin - Insulin sensitivity and a host of other benefits

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This one’s a doozy. But in this write-up, we’ll examine the many benefits of Berberine including improved insulin sensitivity, and if it can replace Metformin (Glucophage) as a safer alternative.

What is Metformin?

Metformin, aka Metformin HCL, aka Metformin hydrochloride, aka Glucophage, is a drug given to people with non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetes to help bring down their blood glucose levels and improve insulin sensitivity. In other words, their body still makes insulin, it just stinks at using it. (1)

It can also sometimes be used in conjunction with insulin in non-insulin dependent type 2 diabetes, and even rarely in select patients with insulin dependent type 2 diabetes. (2)

What does metformin do?

Metformin works to lower your blood glucose levels. It does this in a couple ways.
1) cuts down on the amount of glucose your liver kicks out
2) improves your insulin sensitivity, specifically how sensitive your muscles are to insulin
3) cuts down on how much glucose you absorb through the food you eat. (1, 3)

Metformin's use in bodybuilding.

There are legit uses for metformin in bodybuilding, and they're very similar and/or directly related to why it is beneficial for diabetics. I mean who doesn't want to have awesome insulin sensitivity, right? Your muscles are more sensitive to insulin so they scoop up glucose better, allowing for that pump we all love. Your muscles can then make better use of that nutrition they're holding after you damage them after training. It helps your body make much better use of glucose, which will allow users to eat more carbs without worrying as much about it turning to fat. And, because extended HGH use can cause cause a rise in insulin resistance (4), Metformin can help mitigate this shitty side effect of HGH.

However, metformin is not without it's own set of side effects.

Side effects of Metformin

From drugs.com (5). You can read the giant list on your own, but here are the highlights.
- abdominal pain
- decreased appetite
- diarrhea
- fast/shallow breathing
- fever/chills
- lower back pain
- muscle pain/cramping
- painful urination
- lethargy
- anxiety
- blurred vision
- confusion
- depression
- seizures
- shakiness
- slurred spray
- tightness in chest
- loss of strength
- excess gas in stomach or intestines
- flu like symptoms

1-10% hypoglycemia
Very rare >0.01% Lactic acidosis (serious shit)

That ends it for drugs.com.

Top those off with what should concern us hormone-wise:
- decrease total and free testosterone in non-diabetic men (6)
- downregulation of androgen receptors (not desensitizing the receptors... literally gets rid of androgen receptors… gross) (7)

Now if you're on exogenous testosterone anyway those two are probably a wash, but I wouldn't fuck with the stuff if you're natty, and DEFINITELY not during PCT.

"But wait! Could there be a herbal OTC alternative that is just as, or possibly even more effective than metformin?"

Well little Jimmy, there is! You may be in luck. Let me tell you about Berberine.

What is berberine?

Berberine is an extract from a berry shrub called Berberis Vulgaris, aka common Barberry, aka European barberry, aka Barberry, hailing from Southern Europe, Africa and Western Asia. (8)

It's being studied for its anti-aging, anti-diabetic and anti-cancer properties. And all it takes is a quick Google to see that more and more diabetics have been successfully replacing their metformin with berberine.

Using berberine in place of metformin?

So how did I stumble on this shit? You may or may not be asking yourself... I was researching new ways to increase my insulin sensitivity. I already do the standards like improving omega 6:3 ratio, drinking apple cider vinegar, green tea, cutting out simple carbs, etc. and thought "well, what do diabetics do?” I started looking at supps for diabetics and researching the ingredients, and found two very strong candidates. One being berberine and the other gymnemma (maybe another post one day? We’ll see. This was a lot of fucking work).

Berberine was the strongest since there were tons of articles, controlled medical studies, and forum posts of diabetics and doctors claiming berberine was just as effective as metformin, with some swapping out one for the other with great success. You can do the googling yourself if you want to hear the personal accounts or read the articles, but I'll sum it up for you, mainly the medical studies since the proof is in the pudding.

Studies show berberine's effects not only match metformin, but can eclipse it....
Ok, here's where the fun shit starts. Although we don't really hear about it, scientists have been sciencing the balls out of Berberine and its comparability to Metformin for years...

In one study, 74 patients (there were a few more, but a couple dropped out and others where kicked out for being lazy with their drugs and not following directions, because why would they?) with newly diagnosed type 2 diabetes were split into two groups. One group received 500mgs of Berberine three times daily after meals, and Group B received 500mg of Metformin three times daily after meals. I'm going to copy and paste this part instead of summarizing so I don't fuck it up:

Compared with metformin, berberine exhibited an identical effect in the regulation of glucose metabolism, such as HbA1c, FBG, PBG, fasting insulin and postprandial insulin. In the regulation of lipid metabolism, berberine activity is better than metformin. By week 13, triglycerides and total cholesterol in the berberine group had decreased and were significantly lower than in the metformin group (P<0.05).(9)

So that's what's up...

Another study (that i would have had to purchase for the details, but we at least get the abstract) proved that Berberine given to humans with type 2 diabetes lowered their fasting blood glucose, hemoglobin A1C (super important measure in diabetes), triglyceride, and insulin levels similar to the level Metformin and Rosiglitazone does. It did this by increasing the expression of the insulin receptor (aka improving sensitivity). It also improved liver enzymes and liver function. Again, I don't wanna mess this part up:

Our results confirmed the activity of BBR on InsR in humans and its relationship with the glucose-lowering effect. Together with our previous report, we strongly suggest BBR as an ideal medicine for T2DM (Type 2 diabetes mellitus). (10)

But wait, there's more!

Another study investigated Berberines effect on both metabolic disorders like diabetes and cardiovascular disease. It not only confirmed what the other studies found, that's it's awesome at lowering glucose, nutrient partitioning and improving insulin sensitivity to the same level as metformin, BUT also demonstrated effects on the AMPK activity involved in cardiovascular disorders. Concluding...

In fact, widely used drugs, including statins, metformin and rosiglitazone, execute CV protective effects though the activation of AMPK. The demonstrated efficacy in dyslipidemia and the promising antiarrhythmic activity make BBR a candidate for further study to provide new insights for therapeutic purpose. (11)

Another study used only 24 people with metabolic syndrome. 12 got 500mg of Berberine 3 times a day before meals, the other 12 got a placebo. No change was shown in the placebo group. The Berberine group had a 36% remission of metabolic disorder, their waist shrunk, systolic blood pressure, total insulin secretion and triglycerides all were lowered, and insiulin sensitivity improved. (12)

Wham-O!

Lipid improvement? Yes please!

Yet another study looked at Berberines effect on the blood lipid profile. The study gave subjects two 500mg doses a day of either Berberine or placebo for 3 months. Then they took them off for 2 months as a “wash out period”, then started up the treatment again for another 3 months. Results?

A decrease of body weight and BMI was observed after the run-in period. Berberine reduced total cholesterol, triglycerides and LDL cholesterol and increased HDL cholesterol after 3 months from randomization and compared with placebo. After the washout period, lipid profile worsened; afterward, when berberine was reintroduced, lipid profile improved again both compared with the washout period, and with placebo. (13)

They concluded it was effective and safe for low risk patients.

I know... You're all like "Holy shit, D... are there ANY downsides?!"

Dangers/sides of berberine?

Berberine has an extremely low toxicity – Yay!

Some gastrointestinal discomfort was found for a few patients in one of the studies above (I think (9)?). That was mitigated by dropping the dose to 300mgs 3 times daily instead of 500mgs. So you may experience cramping, diarrhea, or nausea. (I didn't, but you might)

I found these drug interactions in another article about sides and stacks that already did the research for me and cited said research in the article (14)

  • Berberine lowers blood sugar and can increase the effects of other drugs that perform the same task.

  • Berberine inhibits cytochromes CYP2D6, CYP2C9, and CYP3A4. These cytochromes are the targets of a large number of medications, so check that you're not taking something that targets one of those.

  • "Berberine has a powerful effect on anion transporter proteins in the cell membrane. A few medications use these transporters to access your cells and deliver their effects. One important medication is Metformin" (14)

  • Dangerous interaction with macrolide antibiotics. "The Berberine toxicity occurs at hERG channels in the heart. There is a potential for serious negative health effects in these interactions. (14)"

So don't mix it with any of those.

Also, webMD says don't give it to babies. So don't do that either. But really, you'd kind of be an asshole if you did anyway...

The one downside I can find is that it's bioavailability isn't super awesome. In fact it's the opposite of super awesome. In theory, if the bioavailability can be improved, maybe less can be taken and that would cut down on anyone experiencing gastrointestinal issues. BUT I found a way that should improve that too!

Improving bioavailability

While the studies dosed orally and it still worked, we can make it even better. Studies show that P-glycoprotein is a real cock-block when it comes to absorbing Berberine in the intestines, and that the use of a P-glycoprotien inhibitor increased absorption 6-fold in rats (15).

Problem solver? Milk Thistle! Studies show that milk thistle (silymarin) does a good job at inhibiting p-glycoprotein, therefore improving Berberine’s bioavailability. (16, 17)

They sell one Berberine supp on Amazon with silymarin (the active ingredient in milk thistle that does all the great things milk thistle is known for) already in it. But you can also just take it together with it if you have it around... which I'm sure a lot of you do.

Benefits of taking berberine instead of metformin?

A lot less possible sides, no known dangers for the kidney and it's cheaper. And legal. And OTC. No effect on Natural Test, or Free Test, or androgen receptors, or TSH... So there you have it.

But, will it perform as well for bodybuilding purposes?

Will it work for our purposes?

Ahhh the million dollar question... and the one that I did ZERO research on aside for trying it myself. In theory, yes. Unlike all of our other "tools", we use metformin at "normal" studied dosages. Berberine works just as well and extremely similarly to metformin in diabetics and normal people, so why not for bodybuilding purposes? Want to keep your muscles fuller during low carb dieting? Try berberine! GH use got your insulin sensitivity down? Try berberine! etc. etc.

I tried it for 2 months and I leaned out and had great pumps. That being said, I was also on 535mg of Test and 50mgs of Anavar at the time... so that would have happened anyway. But maybe it added to it? Not really a fair way to test it. I ordered more and will be giving it another go now that I'm off and will update this post with the results. In theory, I should be able to get a better pump, eat more carbs without gaining fat, or trim my waist a bit if I stick to normal carbs... just like one would report with metformin. Alas (Alas? Did I come over on the Mayflower?), only time will tell.

I will say that a couple times I didn't eat carbs in the morning while taking it on cycle. I felt a little hypo and it was fixed by taking in 30g of some simple carbs. Maybe in my head? Can't be 100% sure, but I'd like to think not.

Be a Guinea Pig with me!

I'd love for anyone interested to give this supplement a shot and report back with the details. Especially metformin guys, for an even better comparison! If you report back with your experience here or in a PM, I'll make sure to keep this updated with real world results (or lack there of). I'm sure there are varying qualities of this product out there on the market, and only the real shit will give us real answers, so go with a brand you trust!

I enjoyed putting this together. I hope you guys enjoyed reading it and found it informative. I know it was long and possibly boring to anyone that isn't me.

And I REALLY hope that I can update this in a couple months with some of your experiences in a final section to properly wrap it up. Maybe something good will come out of it.

Thanks to Makwa for encouraging me to write this. No homo.

Citations:

  1. WebMD - Drugs - Metformin HCL (http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-11285-7061/metformin-oral/metformin-or...)

  2. Combination therapy with insulin and metformin (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15251717/)

  3. Glucophage (Metformin) and Diabetes (http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-medication/glucophage.html)

  4. Growth hormone replacement therapy induces insulin resistance by activating the glucose-fatty acid cycle (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12679422/)

  5. Drugs.com - Metformin side effects (https://www.drugs.com/amp/sfx/metformin-side-effects.html)

  6. Effects of short term metformin administration on androgens in normal men.
    (http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13918081)

  7. Metformin represses androgen-dependent and androgen-independent prostate cancers by targeting the androgen receptor.
    (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25894097/)

  8. Wikipedia - Berberis Vulgaris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berberis_vulgaris)

  9. Efficacy of Berberine in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/)

  10. Berberine lowers blood glucose in type 2 diabetes mellitus patients through increasing insulin receptor expression (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049509003163)

  11. Cardiovascular and metabolic effects of Berberine (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2999047/#!po=54.9180)

  12. Effect of Berberine Administration on Metabolic Syndrome, Insulin Sensitivity, and Insulin Secretion (http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/met.2012.0183)

  13. Effects of berberine on lipid profile in subjects with low cardiovascular risk. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23441841/)

  14. Taking Berberine? Look out for these 3 sides and 3 great stacks! (https://liftmode.com/blog/berberine-side-effects/#_ftn4)

  15. The involvement of P-glycoprotein in berberine absorption (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12530470/)

  16. Herbal modulation of P-glycoprotein (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072439/)

  17. Inhibition of P-glycoprotein by natural products in human breast cancer cells (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02977349?LI=true)

dmxinyourface's picture

Fantastic article @DfromPhilly's ! You really went DEEP in the subject. I knew about berberine for 3-4 years and I finally started it and MAN !! Best herb I EVER tried digestion wise ! It's night and day. 3 poops per day every single day and super easy. Some of us go really high with the protein and it might get hard to get the stuff out so berberine is the way to go. Of course it has TONS of other benefits.

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Tonyb121985's picture

Props to the time that went into the research! I can’t believe some people just goggle something one or two or even ten times and think they are an expert! It’s important these other “researchers” research data via evidence-based practiced clinical studies. Some don’t even know where to find articles/research reports/medical journals/etc.! I’m going to check out this berberine, I will checkin to see what how your research is going! If I can contribute any data by being a guinea pig I’ll be glad to help!

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Bjmoney85's picture

Well bro I know this is old, but I’m defiantly gonna be using this to try and get som insulin sensitivity back and get glucose down!!

DfromPhilly's picture

Nice. Good luck brother. Let me know how it works out. I still use berberine most of the year, and I take it with my high carb meals.

press1's picture

Phew I never realised there were SO many bad side effects of Metformin!

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Makwa's picture

Most people end up getting the shits from it. Bad

DfromPhilly's picture

Yea definitely a lot of potential sides. I’m sure a lot of people run it just fine but it can definitely do some damage. And I definitely wouldn’t be using it if I was natty.
How you doin, buddy?

Makwa's picture

Definitely not something to run if natty like you said. Many people try and run it as a weight loss drug but just screws them up in the end. there is a time and a place for it but not as a casual weight loss drug like many try to use it as.

DfromPhilly's picture

Agreed 100%

press1's picture

Hi Mate Smile

All is Good - Summer has finally arrived in the UK so loosin half a stone in the sheets every night from sweating LMAO We have tonnes of new members in the group now pal, they are a great bunch! Get yourself in and meet some of them Smile

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DfromPhilly's picture

Nice. Summer hitting here too so I feel ya. And that’s what’s up, I’ll definitely stop in later on. Nice to see everyone’s still talking shit and keeping it light lol.

Bjmoney85's picture

I will for sure, that was something im having a little trouble with is finding the best time of day to take this morning, evenings, with meals, just 3 times a day . It’s very interesting and thank u for putting this up for guys like me! I’ll definitely update soon. Have been battling high morning blood sugars for a little while now!

vorsplasm's picture

Excellent article, I was definitely considering giving Metformin a go to resolve my insulin sensitivity issues but based on this write-up and the studies linked, I've gone ahead and started Berberine too this week,

For citation 10 (Berberine lowers blood glucose in type 2 diabetes mellitus patients through increasing insulin receptor expression), I found a link via Sci-Hub so you don't have to pay for the study:

https://microlip.es/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/31-Berberina-2-de-2010.pdf

DfromPhilly's picture

Nice. Thanks for the link and kind words. Y only word of caution is that I wouldn’t try them both for the first time at the same time. They can both be pretty powerful and both combined could fuck you up if they end up both working to their full potential. You don’t wanna go the other way and go hypo.

warpAqualung's picture

Im starting this today, costs me like 2 euro/dollar and its otc

Its not a miracle drug but everybody has a good opinion on it

Achak's picture

I take an insulin mimetic supplement with my meals. It contains berberine and other key ingredients that increase insulin sensitivity. I do this in conjunction with GHRPs or HGH. It has worked very well for me.

ripperrr's picture

Heard great things about this compound and ordered some online. I have Metformin on its way as well so not sure what I'll do about that. I've taken Metformin in the past and some days I would not have any sides and other days they were terrible. In the morning I would look at the pill reluctantly, asking myself if i should take another one.

ECinfidel's picture

Found this while researching glucose inhibitors for an upcoming hgh run. Well written and meticulously researched. Well done D! BUUUUUMP!!!

DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks brother! Glad people are still finding it helpful. I still take it almost year round.

ECinfidel's picture

I'll be grabbing some for sure.

Ozninjaguy's picture

I not diabetic but take Berberine for it's other alleged health benefits (mainly lipid profile/cardiovascular) - however I haven't noticed any 'leaning out' effects even on lower calorie intake and no real changes in lipid profile - still have to take statins. So, while I still take it, I'm personally not convinced that it's of any real benefit: just probably doesn't hurt to take it.

DfromPhilly's picture

Yea I think it can help lipids, but I don’t think it’s gonna do any heavy lifting there if you’re someone that needs oerscribed meds for it. That’s a bummer that it didn’t help you more. And it seems since I’ve posted this that some people it works great for and others don’t notice anything.

I’m assuming that maybe if you already have good insulin sensitivity and have a healthy blood sugar level that maybe it doesn’t do anything for you in that area. It still seems like a good thing to take overall, but I consider insulin sensitivity/lowering A1C it’s main use. Every other benefit is really just icing on the cake.

Do you use growth? It seems some people that use growth experience some insulin resistance and that’s where berberine might be a benefit to people that normally have very good insulin sensitivity.

Ozninjaguy's picture

Yes, as I said, I take it anyway, even though I don't notice any difference (and blood work doesn't show any difference either). No, not on GH, but I can see where it might be of some benefit there. I researched it a lot before deciding to take it, and read the Metformin articles (as well as a lot of the others) that you posted - even recommended it to a mate with diabetes but he wasn't into 'alternative' medicines and sadly passed away last year. My recent blood sugar (last month) was in normal range. Anyway mate - as I say - can't hurt to take it. Have a good one.

Nattyboomba's picture

I've been running Berberine off and on for about a year and a half + (after coming across this thread), both on GH and off. All of my results are anecdotal, but, my body fat was more stable, the noticable effects of blood sugar movement stabilized and I had no side effects (other than the inability to get the next-level bitterness out of my mouth before capsuling it...). Also, I stayed looking and feeling full, regardless of where I was in my carb cycling.
In a similar vein, I have come across many, many solid studies into turmeric curcuminiods, and they seem to have much promise reducing insulin resistance in a similarly powerful way, better efficacy destroying many, MANY types of cancer cells (prostate cancer, etc.), promotes significant healing of the internal organs and even shows significant effects on our AMPK systems. DfromPhilly; have you come across any of this in your travels? I know you keep healthy with many a homeopathic pillar, I'm interested to hear what you have to say. This Berberine has been gold

DfromPhilly's picture

What’s up man. Thanks for the feedback. I still have to get around to updating this with results and feedback. So you adding yours is a huge help. My buddy in work is pre-diabetic and he’s got his blood sugar down to normal levels after using berberine for just a week or two.

I’ve read a bunch on tumeric curcumin and I did use it for a bit, but I was only using it for inflammation and it got expensive to keep as a staple. I keep telling myself that I have to add it back in. Too many health benefits not to. That said I didn’t “feel” any better or worse on it. It helped with inflammation a bit but that’s all I noticed (then again that’s all I was looking to notice). The stuff seems to be a huge help for longevity, but no I haven’t used it in a bit, although I probably should.

Nattyboomba's picture

You know, I didnt even mention the inflammation, which was an enormous help for me. My elbows and shoulders specifically showed significant mobility after only a short term of usage. It is costly, but curcuminoid extracts with decent standardization rates (90%-95%) are getting pretty finacially reasonable. Maybe only $30-40 per month. Like any natural supplement, it is very poorly regulated, so there is a bit of faith-in-labeling here/research. It has also shown clinical promise boosting natural T, eliminating depression/mood stabilization, huge immune supporter, circulatory booster, eases digestive issues, helps metabolic repair (through it's natural mechanism of healing support) and even makes your skin pretty....

That is dynamite news, your coworker has shown such a positive response to berberine. I've got a prediabetic friend as well, but I haven't been convincing enough yet for them to try it. She is close to 300 lbs, so the lack of side effects from the berberine is a vastly superior route to metformin.

You having brought this information to this community quite some time ago, I would have assumed this would have had more public support/knowledge by now. It truly is miraculous for those it works for (which is most in my experience, but of course not all), I'm somewhat shocked not to see more people touting this

DfromPhilly's picture

Yea I’ll have to take another look into pricing and give it another go.

And thanks man. It’s gaining slowly in popularity. Honestly I’m just happy that a couple people found some benefit. Even though it doesn’t seem to work for all (and gave Pale some heartburn), if this thread helped improved the health of a few people that wouldn’t have known to try it otherwise, I’m happy.

csgkvothe's picture

As a T1 Diabetic for 35 years now on an insulin pump and CGMS, I’ve tried Berberine a few times and noticed no effect on insulin sensitivity or glucose levels, personally. Not saying this is the case for everyone, but it does absolutely nothing for me. I’m always on the hunt for anything that helps insulin sensitivity, as I’ve built up a tolerance from it over the past 35 years.

Edit: I’m on 1000mg Metformin 2x a day also. It works. No negative sides for me. And it’s free at my pharmacy.

Dope's picture

R-ala and cromium are great also for this

Life saving supplements for cronic GH users

Respect

Dope

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johnmarshall12's picture

I used Metformin a long time ago and it nearly killed me. I did it wrong and timed the carbs way off and came close to a hypoglycemic coma. VERY SCARY! Well if nothing else let this serve as a warning g to those who think Metformin is candy!

If a natural supplement could do what Metformin does without the sides it would be of great benefit!

warpAqualung's picture

what dose?

Makwa's picture

Giving this a bump. Great stuff. My chiropractor just got me on berberine supplementation to help with some issues I have been having.

Makwa's picture

No help to me so I stopped taking it.

DfromPhilly's picture

That sucks. Thanks for the feedback. What were you taking it for just out of curiosity? I only ask because you mentioned your chiropractor.

Makwa's picture

There were some holistic gut health issues we were looking at. I also had some bloodwork done for other stuff while on it and my glucose levels were unchanged.

The effects are pretty apparent when using metformin and noticed nothing like that with berberine unfortunately.

kibby's picture

Good BUMP mate......was thinking about giving this another shot

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Dacky's picture

Now is a good time mate given your current nutritional plan. Dosed 15mins pre carbs up to 3 x per day especially if you’re upping your dose of GH. Get the one with Bananaba off Amazon I believe it’s called Glyco-X 500

kibby's picture

Cheers Dacky,

I'll get some ordered now. I tried this last year but made me feel crappy (obviously got the carb timing wrong).

I'll keep you posted mate thanks

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Dacky's picture

No worries mate. You know where I am so give me a shout at anytime.

idan707's picture

After a lot of read can we say that berberine has minimal effect if any on muscle loss while cycle or after it?

Gentauni's picture

My pops is on metformin, and some of the side effects are starting to concern me. His hands shake a bit, his memory has had me questioning as well. He's 70 years old, but he's in great shape. Hits the gym 4 times a week, 3 walks a day, but he's cursed with the diabetes.

What's your opinion on an extended GH cycle bro? How long do you think is to long to be on GH before building this insulin resistance? Obviously dose will be a huge factor, so let's call it at 4iu/day. Appreciate the write up as well as your feedback! Anyone feel free to chime in on this as well!

DfromPhilly's picture

I think we're all different man. 4iu a day I'd imagine insulin resistance would start dropping after month 2??? I'm completely pulling that out of my ass though. Could be sooner. I haven't done any research on when it starts. I probably noticed it start after 6-8 weeks or so @ 2.5-3iu if I remember right. But it was honestly never anything serious like Geo's talking about below.

As far as your pop goes. I'd have him ask his doctor about berberine. There are docs out there having their patients making the switch and beings successful. But obviously he's in a position where he shouldn't be doing anything without doctor supervision. not like any of us really should, but you know what I mean.

Are you talking an extended GH cycle for your pop or you? I wouldn't recommend your pop touch GH (or anything else for that matter) without a serious & honest talk with his doc about it first. I'm not recommending shit for a diabetic. That's serious shit and I don't want it on my conscience. I'm assuming you mean for you though?

If you mean for you, as far as GH goes, I would ONLY recommend an extended GH course (6+ months) assuming health is in order. Hell, I hope to be on 1.5-2iu for infinity.

Geo's picture

I wanted to come back to comment on this post and also thank D for this valuable information.
So for about a year and a half, ever since I ran my 1st HGH cycle.. about 6 month in to it, I started to get really bad sugar crashes. I actually had a doctor call me once when they got my monthly accutane blood work because he was concerned if I got home ok, because my blood sugar was extremely low when they drew blood. Funny thing, it was about an hour and a half after I ate lunch.
So basically anytime I ate anything over 50-60g of carbs, about an hour later I would get a severe blood sugar crash to the point where I would fall asleep at work at times.
About 5 months ago I came across this post by D and started taking 500mg of glycoX 3 times a day, 2nd bottle I switched to 400mg glycoX and continued to take it 3 times a day for about 3 months.. I have noticed the change in how I feel after meals almost immediately after starting it. After bout 3 months, I lowered the dose to 400mg with my preworkout meal only. And if I backload carbs at night I take 400mg of glycoX with 300mg of R-ala.
Now I'm able to take a higher doses of HGH and I do not feel tired after meals, instead I get energized from food.. like I used to when I was younger.
Taking berberine changed my insulin sensitivity. My blood sugar is not jumping all over the place anymore even when I don't take a dose of glycoX either. And my last 2 blood tests had my glucose within range.
So I'm not sure how it compares to metformin, I never took it. But berberine has significantly improved my quality of life... who knows maybe even saved my life.

DfromPhilly's picture

Nice. That’s incredible man. Glad to hear it. And most importantly I’m glad to hear your doing better and your glucose is in range. Your post just made my day boss. Awesome feedback too. Good fuckin shit.

Commish's picture

Well done!!! This is a proper write up. Your content shows tremendous effort to teach the masses. I for one will learn alot from this... Thank you Sir.

DfromPhilly's picture

Thanks buddy. Glad you dug it. I hope it helps and you get some benefit from it.

I’ve been slacking on the conclusion tho. I have enough info to throw something in there, and I’ve been using it for about 6-7 months straight now. I just gotta get around to it.

If you do end up supplementing with it, I’d really appreciate if you let me know how it works out for ya.

Pale's picture

My opinion which is not scientific and only based on my own findings is Berberine will help but not on the same level the metformin will. The plus side is Berberine has next to no side effects. But metformin works and works fast.

DfromPhilly's picture

Awesome thanks for the input. It’s interesting that in the case of diabetics it was a good match up mg to mg, but in our case comes up a little short. It makes sense as out needs go a bit beyond health.

I’ve never used Metformin so anyone’s opinion that’s used both is super valuable to me. Thanks again man