+ 8 Gh dosing protocol for individuals with low igf
Ok guys, I’m wanting to get everyone’s input on their thoughts on the best dosing protocol for gh involving someone with low igf.
I have a cyst on my pituitary gland which has tanked my igf. I’d have to dig up my old bloods, but I believe igf was in the low 50’s when I was 23 years old and I’m about to turn 29. When I go in for my blood work they don’t even bother testing for igf anymore. From what I understand from my endo is that there is no point since it will only get lower with age.
I’ve always done am/pm dosing when using growth, my endo advised that when I first began using hgh. And that seemed to be the most common protocol I came across, so I went with that. Now I’m seeing far more advanced dosing protocols: pre/post workout, all post workout, eod post workout or eod first thing in the morning etc.
One common trend I see in most protocols is that they shy away from night time dosing due to interrupting the natural pulsation of growth hormone at night. Which makes perfect sense if your pituitary is functioning like should. But my question is- Should mine be administered differently due to my igf being abnormally low? Below I have some articles attached which lead me think that I need to incorporate a nightly dose to “recreate” the natural pulse that I appear to have lost.
Then my next question is who all has had superior results from eod dosing? The first link I have attached addresses every day vs. every other day dosing. 2 years after they discontinued their growth hormone therapy both groups were reassessed. The group that did eod injections showed less deceleration of gh than that of the group that did every day injections. It seems that the target organ develops a tolerance, which leads to over-saturation? Or something similar? I’m just guessing here. I’m very new to growth hormone and would like all the input I can get from all of you who have more experience in the matter.
I plan on starting with 3iu. In the past I’ve ran 3-4iu ed am/pm split for about a year, and have gone as high as 6iu ed am/pm split for 6 months. I don’t plan on going any higher than 3iu anytime soon. I’m mainly looking for increased recovery, better sleep, an better sense of well-being. I felt fantastic when I ran 3-4 iu. It even kept some old nagging injuries at bay for the entire duration of the cycle.
So far I’m contemplating:
3iu at night
2iu post workout/1iu at bed
1iu post workout/2iu at bed
6iu eod at bed
6iu eod post workout
3iu post/3iu at bed eod
I’d greatly appreciate everyone’s input and advice on the matter. I’m not sure if 1iu post and 2iu at bed, or 2iu post and 1iu at bed is even worth playing with since the dosage is so low. Is 1iu enough to create a pulse? I like the idea of the benefits provided dosing post workout, but I’m still unsure as whether that would be best protocol for what I’m looking to do. My heads spinning with all the info I’ve found. So hopefully you guys can help me decide what which protocol would yield the best results for me.
Thank you very much in advance for all who took the time to read my long winded post.
Here are the more interesting articles.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12161476/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2294131/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/7525120/?i=2&from=/2294131/related
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Great job bro!! A lot of good info & ++++ below as well!
Thanks brother!
Told you it would be received well! +2 this is very well written as I knew it would be.
I already told you most of this but I’ll put it here for everyone else for the sake of conversation...
I’ve always believed and has been confirmed by my doc that run it as long as you can, and dose in the morning all at once up to 4iu. Past 4iu, split it am/pm, since you’re gonna be fucking with your natural pulse at that dose no matter what.
In your case, since there’s not much of a pulse to fuck with, I’d try 3iu pm, and 1iu/2iu, am/pm respectively.
I also don’t think you’re giving 1iu enough credit. You have pharma growth on your hands... 1iu is a replacement dose at a lot of anti-aging clinics, and for someone that doesn’t really produce growth, 1iu alone could improve your life in my opinion.
This is what I’d do if I was you (this May change after I read the articles you sent more thoroughly):
I’d start at 2iu at night, and I’d stop eating at least 2hours before bed. Then assuming your side free after 2 weeks, I’d incorporate 1iu in the morning upon waking as well. Then I’d pull igf after 10-14 days. Then I’d switch to all 3iu before bed and retest in another 10-14 days. Then I’d stick with whatever made me feel best and/or produced the best bloods. Or try another 2 weeks with your eod pm dosing and see what happens, but I personally wouldn’t wanna jump right into pinning 6iu at once. I jumped to 4 too quickly and blew up like the michilin man (grant it, that wasn’t pharma).
I think it was dope that got better igf levels from all at once ed dosing compared to am/pm split.
As far as post workout dosing goes...
This is purely my opinion, I have no experience with it, but I wouldn’t want to dose growth post workout because I’d want my bodies endogenous insulin doing its thing. My opinion is that the post workout dosing is best suited for those involved in “taboo” protocols.
Again, this opinion may change after I’ve fully gone thru the articles you sent, but that’s my gut instinct based off of what I know right now. I wish there was definitive info on if carbs/insulin response messed with exogenous gh like it does endogenous. hoping its' somewhere in those articles.
Thank ya! I’m right with you on not eating before bed, I cut out all foods right at 10 and try to be sleeping by 12.
You’re right, I do forget this is pharma grade so the results will be more pronounced. 2iu would probably be a better starting point. I haven’t used gh in over two years, I’d hate to blow up like the Michilin man lmao. I like that idea of starting with 2 and then add another iu in the morning. I’m glad your dr said stay on for as long as you can. Mine said the same thing. His exact words were “however long you AFFORD to stay on” in the cases I came across that people cycled off and on, the case was usually over someone with a serious health problem, not a traditional hrt patient.
I’m pretty much on the same page with you about post workout injections. The pre workout injection protocol intrigued me more than the post workout injection protocol. But they always seem to go hand in hand. I didn’t see much on people dosing say- a morning shot and pre workout shot, Or preworkout shot all at once etc, It always seemed to be pre/post. And post shot was often accompanied with a taboo protocol. I have a video that goes over it briefly, I’ll have to dig that up. I don’t think I can’t post vids, but I’ll rewatch and paraphrase. I believe they go over eating and gh as well. They had some pretty strong thoughts on exogenous gh not being affected whatsoever by food. But that whole idea freaks me out because there’s not much research out there backing it up. Some have awesome results and bloods doing so. But it was drilled into my head from day one to fast as long as possible.
Very interesting read.
I find this article - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/7525120/?i=2&from=/2294131/related - with a special importance to the common user who wishes to optimize growth and accelerate body fat loss
The conclusions bring us some valuable data: Twice-daily GH injections, apart from producing a more physiological serum GH profile, were superior to one injection in increasing serum IGF-I and decreasing IGFBP-1 levels. Both of these changes tend to amplify the effects of the administered GH
More ever note that as a general rule it's advised to take a larger dosage pre-sleep as this will mimic the healthy circadian metabolic effects of a natural pulsatile GH secretion
Wow great article! Thank you.
One thing I’m unsure of is the IGFBP-1? from reading it appears that it is a good thing that it was lower? But I was looking it up on ncbi and it said that lower levels of IGFBP-1 could be associated with impaired glucose tolerance, vascular discease and hypertension in humans. As well as it being important for cell metabolism. I may be misreading but it appears that it’s very important, but yet low levels are a good thing?
There is an interaction between IGF1 metabolism and insulin functioning in the body, so what you refer here is sub normal IGFBP levels which may be associated with insulin resistance, which may lead to all of the condition you specified. The article refers to IGFBP as a result of exogenous GH administration and t simply means that more IGF1 is traveling unbound in the serum and may interact with the receptors
That makes much more sense. Thank you for helping clear that up for me.
Interesting article. I take my GH in one shot pre-workout. Just found it to be more convenient that way. Would be nice to know if carbs actually blunt the GH so to avoid that controversy I take it pre-WO since I don't eat right before a workout. Otherwise I am eating all the time.
I’ve heard some say that they get better pumps with a preworkout dose. Have you noticed any difference in the pumps or experienced any other benefits from a preworkout dose?
GH doesn't give my any pump. Pinning IGF does though.
It is really hard to tease out the benefits due to differences in dosing protocol. I think that would take a lot of follow up bloodwork under the different protocols. I try not to worry about it much anymore. I did the whole before breakfast thing, pre and post thing, all before bed, splitting up doses throughout the day, etc and I really didn't see a hill of beans difference between all the ways.
I agree with heavy metal, great subject and well-written and well thought out post, +1. I'm just starting gh so I'm trying to sort through alot of conflicting info on the best dosing protocol. Hopefully this will get some good conversation going and ideas bouncing around.
X2.. excellent topic for sure
Thank ya sir! I’m hoping we get some good ideas bouncing around here as well. If it wasn’t for my low igf I think I would try pre/post workout, Ive known a few to do so and they love it. Hell I’d honestly love to try all the protocols. The eod dosing has really caught my attention. For as expensive as this stuff is I really want to maximize it to the fullest potential.
First off +1 for this post man... good topic.. you don't really see a lot of guys on here using gh for a legit purpose such a this...I personally don't have any issues with natty production of gh so I don't dose before bed..I dose am only all at once no matter how many iu. .. now that's just me..I also dose ed not eod ... now here's what I think...I dose am only like I said and I fast for a few hours.. anyone taking gh should know eating and dosing around the same time just usually does not work out too well...I honestly think in your situation though all at once right before bed is ideal.. that's just my opinion.. your resting your fasting the gh can go to work without anything to stop it from doing what it should.. if it were me I wouldn't eat anything for 2 or 3 hours before I dosed.. is this right for you i have no idea only you know that..u gotta find what works best for u bro.. and I'd keep up on blood work too man so that way you know where your at... good luck with this bro I hope you find the answers your looking for
Thank you for the input! I forgot to go over the bit about fasting before and after the shot. I’m with you I’ve always done so fasted before hand and wait at least 20mins afterwards to eat. I’ve come across some research stating that for fat loss as a primary goal that multiple injections throughout the day are a way to go, but that can lead to insulin resistance. As well as other saying that exogenous growth is so powerful that it doesn’t. Matter. Even more questions to be ask hahah. But for now I’m with you, I’ll stay fasted. I’ll be pulling blood a few weeks after we fixed my protocol. Now that I’ve gotten older I see the importance of them hah.
Honestly I'd wait longer to eat bro.. like an hour at least..I usually wait at least90 mins before I easy breakfast.. minimum.. sometimes2 hours. . again that's just me bro.. its about what gives you the best results.. like you said the stuff isn't cheap might as well try to get the most out of it..
True. Better to be safe than sorry, It won’t be an issue waiting that long. I go to bed 2-3 hrs after my last meal, things should be digested by then I believe.
There you go bro