Catalyst's picture
Catalyst
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+ 54 "Diet Clinic" - Now Live

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OK - Let's get this started. This thread is for those of you that need nutritional support / guidance. Repeatedly people find this aspect the most difficult to pin down and get right and that's exactly what this is here for. We have a cycles page for tweaking cycles, bow we have a diet clinic for tweaking diets. Get your training schedule right as well, you're one step ahead already.

This is how this is going to roll. You post up:
Your stats (be honest)
Ideally a recent pic we can look at from your profile
Your goal
What you currently eat and when along with an idea of training times / work schedule
Any food allergies / dietary requirements
Any foods you can't stand / particularly enjoy (not Pizza lol)

In return, your get FREE nutritional advice and a framework plan to work from to maximise your results. Not just from me and Viking, I want you guys in here showing what you've got on the nutritional front. We've got some great knowledge on this board, this is your thread to show it.

Let's keep this constructive and respectful at all times, but I don't feel the need to "sugar coat" if someones diet needs a complete rebuild if they're getting all wrong. Let's also flip that and avoid become defensive and taking critique personally.

Let the gains begin!

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Very important that protein is kept high because that is what keeps the Metabolism on full throttle and thus creates the "fat burning furnace" that you mentioned.

I take in way more pro when im cutting than other time of the year....... its quite easy really because when my carbs are in minus deficit i am usually fkn starving so blasting down more Pro is so easy.... i dont find it an hardship whatsoever.

Also a cheat meal (day) each week is also beneficial because it keeps tricking the Metabo into thinking the carb purge has stopped and further weight occurs like magic.... also that cheat day for me is important because it the muscle looking full......... nothing worse than flat muscle bellies to fuck the motivation up good style.

Works for some, not for all!..... this is something else that self-experimentation comes into play.

High Vit-C for diuretic purposes and should transform without any muscle loss.

Poor protein intake and lazy training will lead simply lead to "weight loss" but that lost weight will include water/fat and muscle.......... skill comes into play by using the Metabolism as the major tool and in fact it is possible to actually gain LBM whilst cutting if all things are done correctly.

Diet is EVERYTHING... and the things like tren + mast (in my case) are only relied upon for extreme hardness and further enhanced vascularity so i can flex to show lines and striations without even being out of breath or fkn grinding my teeth like i see a lot of guys doing.......... when in extreme condition it should be possible to simply hit a pose and the muscles should looked pumped and sliced, just like they do after 50 sets.......... no heavy breathing, no shakes, no Abs pulsing.......... just hit the pose and look like Iron.

On stage its easy to spot the guys in the line up who are jacked with throid shit and clen +lasix etc........... they shake and sweat like a Whipped puppy..... after a round and we are back stage these guys are doubled up trying to catch their breath and sweating so hard you can actually see cuts disappearing due to water being Sub-Q...... if fkn cracks me up lol.......... i usually pick up the tension Bands and do a little more pumping without even breaking a drop of sweat.

Comp day for me is the easiest day of all the prep........... Steak and pancake breakfast.... rice cakes and sugar loaded jam/peanut butter to snack on and further carb load up to Pre-judging...... after pre-judging its out to a restaurant for a massive meal to fuel up for the night show....... usually that big meal has me looking fuller than before pre=judging lol........ and leaves the body with plenty of fuel for to go out and do it all again and if lucky pick up a BIG fkn trophy lmaooooooooo................... i love my life Smile

bolt781's picture

I take in way more pro when im cutting than other time of the year....... its quite easy really because when my carbs are in minus deficit i am usually fkn starving so blasting down more Pro is so easy.... i dont find it an hardship whatsoever

Fkn-A! I was a bottomless pit before! Now I have food rage during this carb deficit! No matter how many animals I consume I stay hunting! And I started of with no cheat day...was deflated, pump non-existant...read through various forums, added one every 5th day and voila, glycogen restored, pumps restored!

Whats being laid down here by you guys and Miss GRRL is awesome stuff!

guitarplayer1's picture

Sounnd like you are starting to tap into fat storage for fuel Bolt. That hungry and no pump feeling is a tell tale sign.

Another thing is the two large water drops. First is initially when you go into deficit and the other is when you manipulate the water drop before contest. The first one is the one you hear when people first start dieting and you hear " I dropped 5lbs in a week". Yep that's usially all water. Then the weight loss may slow down because the person doesn't know how how to tap into the fat and then fails and goes back to eating the way they did before. Guess what the first thing to come back is? Yep water...high sodium laiden food is usually the culprit.

Keep grinding Bolt, low carbs can be a hangry situation at times but the results will show daily. And yes reward yourself once a week, take the wife out for a double porterhouse and ice cream or something and have fun.

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bolt781's picture

Knuckles for that brother! You pinned exactly what I am/have experienced thus far. I'm starting to see subtle changes from the fat around the chest and delts melting and the midsection tightening up. Obliques showing...been years since I was a buck 60 lol. The waist is literally showing the most improvement, down 3" in just about a month. Slow and steady for me, running my 300mg test 125mg of deca a week coupled with massive volume lifting. You know what, the Mrs. and I will do just that my friend...anyhow thank you again!

guitarplayer1's picture

160 lol I don't think you'll ever see that again. Put some money aside for a new wardrobe my man, in a few month's you're going to be pissed nothing fits. Excited for you cause I know you got some serious beef just waiting to be displayed front and center.

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bolt781's picture

Maybe skinny jeans! Lol even if I were 18 years old at 160 again Id hang myself before that!

Its funny, before becoming involved here at eroids...I just lifted...ate...lifted...ate...and let my body do what it was going to do. Didn't care, it was all about the lifting. Which it still is but now it's been supercharged(if thats possible)by actually paying attention to the "look" I'm now after...which I've seen on you guys here. It's made lifting that much sweeter brother. Paying close attention to diet as well...even though a sonofabitch...has put me in the most positive state of mind I've ever been in. Not that before I let too much negative in...just again..FKN SUPERCHARGED! Shit off on a tangeant again...back to work. Appreciate ya brother

Catalyst's picture

Cut my carbs and I cannot feel full. End result is I eT meat like it's going out of fashion.

bolt781's picture

Haha we are vegans public enemy number 1!

guitarplayer1's picture

Well shit vegetables are not going to fill the hole...meat is the only filler we have to get any sense of satisfaction. I don't know how these vegetarians do it really. Beaidws most that I know have a gray akin look to them and their frail looking.

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Catalyst's picture

Not my most politically correct opinion, but vegetarianism is a load of bollocks. We aren't designed to survive in vegetables alone.

guitarplayer1's picture

The K9's in my mouth tell me I'm mot designed for it niether.

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guitarplayer1's picture

You bet your ass it's easy to take in that pro while in that state. I see alot of these guys say they're just not hungry...I say either they just don't have enough muscle to feed, their intensity in the weight room is lacking ( aka..lifts weights like old people fuck) or just lazy minded.

From the sounds of it looks like kh metabolism has stalled and that's why I said to up the cals and work down from there. That should get things moving along.

Example I had a guy ask me in the gym about a month ago why his weight has not moved in TWO YEARS! He says to me that he eats 2000 cals a day. Simply told him he eats like a 13 yr old girl to light a fire under his ass. A month later and he's up 15 lbs and he doubled his intake. This guy has been thanking me up and down. Point being that I crushed his ego and through that he responded.

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VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

lifts weights like old people fuck

lol............. im not offended bro................. i know you meant really old fucks! like 90yrs or sumtin right?

LMFAO!!!!!

guitarplayer1's picture

Picture Great Grandpa bending Great Grandma over the walker with the tennis balls on it. He rips of her Depends and goes to work.

We'll all be there someday.

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vhman's picture

Thanks for that visual. Seems like you've put a lot of thought into this!

guitarplayer1's picture

I may have missed some key details like the black socks with the suspenders on them.

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kh1216's picture

Nah my metabolism is through the roof. I wasn't dieting before and usually don't need to, I was just in layoff from the surgery lol. Although for whatever reason I just don't really ever get truly hungry. I look at food as a tool to meet my goals. Just wondering how low I could push my calories since I just do this to look good and had never taken it to that extreme before.

guitarplayer1's picture

Start the day off with a huge breakfast then you're already ahead of the game. Digestive enzymes may help. If you can't get 2800 calories in everyday then I'm going to have to have Vike come pay you a visit! Force it in, you're body will adjust.

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VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Force it in

Big pipe and funnel rammed down his kisser ............. lol

2000 cal B/fast is the way to go........... i have only been eating 3 big meals per day whilst in maintenance mode. it makes life easy and i can get more work done...... prep will change to 6/7 smaller type specific macro blasts..... with zero, and i mean zero carbs after 1pm.......... i usually do not come below 3200 total cals and i have been down to 3% BF in the past doing it that way........... cheat day all the way through prep except when the deplete/load stage kicks in.............. the more LBM we hold the bigger the fat furnace!.......... guys that forget to feed their LBM and drop too low with protein will see muscle loss very quickly no matter what type or how much gear they are running.

Most experienced competition guy/gals will run very little gear on a prep because they have learnt all they need is high Androgen type stuff to accentuate hardening and vascularity..... high anabolic rated gear is pretty fkn useless at this stage and can wreck a physique if too much is used.

guitarplayer1's picture

This is the kind of stuff that makes this board shine. Out of all the nonsense posted regularly then you get real deal life information like this.

There are no people on the planet that can get in the condition that a seasoned bodybuilder can. So why not use the same principles rather than going with all these fad diets and training styles.

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VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Not sure bro but i think the fad stuff is all part of the learning curve for some............ i mean its just like all these guys that run these mega dose/mega compound stacks, when the penny drops that they are just pissin all that gear out because they fail to add enough protein to uber-assimilate, or totally miss anabolic windows because the protein intake is not consistent enough to feed receptors when they become super sensitive,, or taking advantage of natural insulin and GH pulses!.

Timing is crucial to get the best from feeding, learning our own bodies and its best feeding times is an art and takes years to develop the "feel"............ apart from absolutely loving lifting weights, all these other things are what has kept me interested for so long in this sport....... for me the learning curve is never ending.......... and that is what makes everything about pure bodybuilding so attractive to me........ its a constant!!.... train poor.. we slip! eat poor ..we slip!.... being consistent to ALL things prevents any slip and fuels progression.

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

The Fad things are also big money spinners too..................... i forgot to mention that point.

kh1216's picture

Oh on my last bulk I was taking in 3850 a day. On 2800 all the time I would be a damn stick haha. I certainly can eat I just don't really get any pleasure out of it like a lot of guys. I don't look forward to meals or anything it's just something I need to do

guitarplayer1's picture

It is a chore that's for sure but without proper intake all the gear and training in the world is not going to do you or anybody squat. Keep grinding man.

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Catalyst's picture

"Some things you eat, some things you just CONSUME". The latter you work out how to get it from the plate to stomach by any means necessary.

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Point being that I crushed his ego and through that he responded.

That my friend is a necessary evil!........... but the thanks that follow after you have changed someones line of thought for the rest of his life is worth biting the bullet for.

Suze has an ability to make guys ears prick up and take her advice immediately!...... but when i do it it takes longer and a lot of explaining before i actually see the given info has sunk in............................. must be a guy thing not liking to agree quickly lol

guitarplayer1's picture

Hmmm now that I think about it the wife was with me. And he did ask her what she does to be her size and he got a response of " I eat 7 times every day and 3600 cals" maybe he felt embarresed after that.

Maybe we should get them on here to start being a drill sargent. Lol

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kodiakGRRL's picture

I think the guys in our town are afraid of me ... they always ask Goth for help ... perhaps I should be a bit smaller ;-)

kodiakGRRL's picture

lol.. i believe that gives me the advantage ;-)

guitarplayer1's picture

Actually you sound too nice. I bet if you started calling some of these guys pussies or such they would respond like never before.

Did you see the post about the detox? It's a few post down.

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kodiakGRRL's picture

lmfao .... maybe I will try that ;-)

DBG's picture

Couldn't agree more, the drugs aren't the answer. A simple understanding of carbohydrate management is.

Me personally, as an example, I have evolved this love/hate realtionship with my metabolism, I'd say in the past ten years? It's not hard for me to get extra lean without losing much lean body mass. Most of the time I can pull a good fast "cut" (like how the OP wants) by simply just doing my carbs pre/intra/post workout. Elevate my protein and fat intake moderately and I'm golden.

I'm a powerlifter that has an issue gaining weight but yet I like to be lean lol...its a paradox. My genetics kinda are just like that anyway.

But another thing I wanna say...is what's up with all the fancy thyroid drugs and peptides and shit like that? If you really don't need it, then don't take it. And I mean more of the "abuse" of taking steroids/PED's, popping shit without knowing your natty baselines. Enhance only if you are running short IMO. So yea if you get bloodwork ON CYCLE...its gonna look fucked up! But once you drop some compounds and shit then it all eventually levels out maybe a total of 6-8 weeks later.

Simple compound cycles and smaller doses with a sound carbohydrate mgmt plan while keeping your training about the same intensity and you can shed quick. That's my recommendation

Oh and yes!!!....nothing at all ever wrong with a big cheat every 7-10 days!! Go F$#K that shit up!!!!

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Thanks for your input bro.............. nice little cutting technique workshop we got going on here.

+3 Smile

DBG's picture

workshop! hahaha, right? I just felt inclined to speak Smile

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Yeah i am the same bro.............. when its a good topic i dont mind spending time typing with one finger lol.... thats the reason why some of my words are unfinished or missed lmfao!....... keyboards baffle me, dumbells fit in my hands way better ;)

guitarplayer1's picture

Spot on with all of that especially the bloods being F'd up.

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Catalyst's picture

I think you already know what i think of the plan. Tren run straight after surgery - bad idea. You know better......

I think the diet is pretty ugly too. Protein is whey everywhere, no greenery (veg) at all. Your guts are going to love it :/

kh1216's picture

Yes sir I figured the tren wouldn't go over well, but I was completely being honest to get a good idea of its effects muscle retention wise. I never go above 200mg per week as that held onto all my muscle the other two times I cut with it. I've just never tried a calorie deficit that severe so I needed opinions on people who might have.
Sorry I also have a romaine or spinach salad every night with the burger, I just don't count it in my macro lineup since it's essentially no calories. And usually either a banana or a pineapple/blueberry mix pre workout. Take a superfood algae mix everyday as well. Whey is just after lifting since I'm a med student it's damn hard to find the time to be constantly cooking. Then I have to travel back and forth to my place to grab the food etc so the shake is simply for convenience. What would you suggest sir?

kodiakGRRL's picture

gp pretty much nailed it .... no greens/veges ... too much bread ... get rid of it .... ditch the rice cakes ...

kh1216's picture

But it's like post workout candy except I can lie to myself and say it's healthy

kodiakGRRL's picture

yeah thats what i tell myself while I am eating the fruit snacks with REAL juice ;-)

vhman's picture

ditch the rice cakes

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! (They're so delicious....)

kodiakGRRL's picture

lmao... they are filler and not to mention processed .. might as well eat fruit snacks which I LOVE by the way ;-)

guitarplayer1's picture

Hey GRRL I looked on your profile, I could of sworn you had a write up on a week detox plan. I've never detoxed and after eating between 5-7k a day for 6 month's I'm considering ending my offseason with a detox plan for a week in a few weeks. I'd like to hear your experience with it.

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VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

+3.............. great stuff Smile

kodiakGRRL's picture

i ve discussed detox a long time ago within a few threads..... i always like to kick a cutter off with detox before messing around with my carb intake and upping my protien intake so that my body will respond better ... but i ll be more than happy to post up a detox plan that i ve kind of twisted about for myself

guitarplayer1's picture

Sorry just saw this. Disregard the other post.

Yes I'm highly interested in your experience with this. When you get time. No pressure. Thank you

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Catalyst's picture

GP has you right above, very similar to what I would have told you.