HCG after/before cycle and reason stated
Ok so this whole HCG issue, I see both sides, and have come to this conclusion.
On cycle, your whole HPTA is suppressed. The hypothalamus doesn't release GnRH, the pituitary doesn't produce LH/FSH, the testes don't produce testosterone, I get that. My belief is that HCG can't cause much additional suppression to the HPTA cycle, as your body is almost completely shutdown anyway,unless you've done a very weak cycle. At least with HCG one part of your HPTA will be still active, your testes. To me I feel that's a big advantage because that's part of the HPTA that takes the longest to recovery from. The reason is that the testes have to produce the massive amounts of testosterone (70mg per week). THe pituitary only produces a few mg of LH and FSH per week, and the product of GnRH is even less then that.
So to me I feel that taking HCG post cycle, before starting clomid is advantage, even though its synthetic, you will be essentially kick starting your balls. Has anyone experimented with this before, post cycle, on cycle? thoughts
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Yes, taking it throughout the duration of the cycle will make recovery so much easier. The hypothalamus quickly starts producing gnrh after the exogenous test clears your cycle with some stimulation from clomid and nolva and with gnrh production comes LH and FSH production. But for some reason it takes many weeks for the testes to start producing testosterone, this is due to your leydeg cells becoming desensitized to LH,they're not used to having that signal everything's been shutdown for so long that your balls have basically become a show piece, not doing shit. So by using hcg during the cycle this desensitization never occurs as the hcg is a synethic form of LH, so they are constantly getting what they think is LH the entire cycle so when pct comes around they're ready to produce normal amounts on their own.
ive seen evidence for and against using HCG during cycle. Im really on the fence on it and tend to be on "against" it side. you can have many of the same benefits using low does toremifene or nolvdex on the testes that you would with the hcg with out the potential for estrogen sides, because hcg can effect the estrogen, and long term improper dosing can be suppressive also, it makes me even more apprehensive for on cycle use. i understand for TRT guys to use HCG but not for cycling. the reason why i am against on cycle use is exactly as you said, it send a signal to turn the leydig cells back on basically with the LH signal. we are essentially sending a signal to "turn on" while most dont have extremely stable blood levels of a particular compound, thus having a slight roller coaster blood level effect on the exogenous hormones, so you pin the HCG, sends a signal to turn on. the exogenous hormone are than pinned again sending the antagonist signal to "shut down". are hpta is as best described as a loop system, ending back where it starts, effectively needing all parts working together. so we send a signal to turn on than another to turn off, like a light bulb, we are turning it off and on continuously. we know what happens after ding this to a light bulb, it burns out. i think the best and most appropriate time for hcg is used as a bridge from last pin of cycle till the first day of PCT. you signal that turn on process and get the lh, fsh, and leydig cells warmed up and ready for the full benefits of the PCT. so all these constant inconsistencies with blood levels, and antagonistic signals i think for most especially those running basic cycles can be more harmful long term than using HCG during cycle.
So Wagner you recommend dining hcg from last pin to start of pct? What would you dosage be at? Have you tried this before? I know I just had my last pin and I've been running hcg for the last 5 days @ 1000ui a day. Horny as fuk been blasting loads lmao. But I'll let you now how the recovery goes
@ 1000iu a day??? thats crazy, i ran mine at 250-500 every other day. yes i have done this. that dose is absolutely to high. you are going to get sides from that dose, HCG is suppressive in itself. so a dose that high and that often will give you estrogen sides and cause more suppression.
so the basic dosing protocol is 250-500iu 3 times a week so basically every other day.
you start this from the day following your last cycle pin to the day you start your standard PCT compounds.
this is a topic i have covered to death on here. look through my old posts youll find all the answers youre looking for.
My Fat thump negged ya, so you get a bonus thumps up to fix it.
Right on wagner, new to the forums here appreciate the heads up!
Karma would be appreciated
bigmurphI have been researching this myself and i have decided on my next cycle to take hcg at 250iu every 5 days for the last 10 weeks right up to my pct and for my pct im going to run nolva and clomid to help with the estro rebound from stopping the hcg to prevent gyno i normally just use clomid for pct but im going to run nolva this time as well