+ 4 Wasting your cycle on a cut??
What is easier to do? Lose 10 lbs of fat or gain 10lbs muscle. In my opinion gaining 10lbs of quality muscle can be a monumental task, but losing 10 lbs of fat is easy compared to that. So where do you think AAS would be most warranted and more advantageous for the majority of us? Hopefully you answered gaining lean tissue (muscle). It really confuses me why so many people are doing cutting cycles when they are really not necessary.
Do we really need AAS to lose some fat? I am not talking pre-contest here, where it is obviously warranted for a multitude of reasons. I am talking about the average gym rat (which most of us are) running pre-comp cycles to lose a little bit of body fat. We are running tren, mast, test, Winni, anavar, superdrol, halo, clen, t3, etc., etc. For what purpose? To lose a few percent body fat and have a few veins pop out?? Yeah!!! You dropped from 15% BF down to 10%. That is great and I’m sure you are looking solid now, but did you really need tren and all those other drugs to do that. Think about that again. My answer would be no, you didn’t need any drugs to do that. That feat could have been accomplished with diet, training, and cardio. Period. So you have pretty much wasted a cycle dropping from 15% down to 10% BF. Hopefully you are catching my drift here. Where you should have started that cutting cycle so as not to have wasted it was when you did reach 10% just with discipline, diet and cardio. Once you get into the lower body fat ranges is where your body is going to hold on to whatever fat it has for dear life. Now it is not easy to lose fat and spare muscle tissue at the same time. Now it is time to bring the big guns out to drop some more body fat. Moral of the story here is: don’t waste your cutting cycle when it is not warranted.
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This is how I see it. If you come to me and say I want to run a cycle to lose fat, I m going to tell you that steroids are not magic fat loss agents. While they do facilitate fat loss their main fucntion is to add muscle and preserve muscle mass. They are NOT for losing "some" fat and a LOT of people think that is exactly what they are for. You lose fat with your diet ... if you use the magic pills to take the fat off what happens when you stop using the magic pills chances are you have not changed what you needed to and without the magic pills you are going to put the fat back on... it's almost like the hcg diet, eating 500 cals a day because the hcg is telling your body you aren't hungry ... I have yet to see one person who lost weight with that diet to keep it off.... sorry rant over..
Rustyhookeradd muscle and preserve muscle mass
That the truth behind gear on cutting. It preserves or adds mass. More mass and more calories burnt. But yes, if diet isn't solid then the hard work is easily lost.
Yes but don't come to me saying I want to lose some fat and I m going to run a cycle to do it.. 90% of the people (and I am being very generous with that number) don't have the BASE to even consider doing it. They are looking for a short cut straight and simple, they havent done the hard work yet.
RustyhookerDeleted. Agree on folks not working for anything
I m not talking about people who have been training and lifting and cycling for years ... I m talking about those who pop up saying "oh I ve been training 3x a week and some cardio and I just want to get rid of some fat people"... "should I take var, clen, and t3 and how much?"
RustyhookerFully agree! I edited because I had brain fart trying to articulate the message. I'm in the belief of keeping it simple. It is loads of sweat value and few pounds a year is great. If the op hasn't had that hardcore 5+ days a week really busting butt, it's just not magic. Body isn't being pushed into responding which is like jump starting a dead battery. Not responsive.
I'll chime in here but I don't feel like writing a novel at the moment. Unless you are trying to lower your body fat to ~ 5% levels (which you cannot maintain) for a bodybuilding competition, what is the point in running a bodybuilding prep cycle (Test / Tren / Mast) + Winny at a minimum to shed fat?
I have no objection to running Test to assure that you are in an anabolic environment while you are dieting and loosing fat to make sure you don't sacrifice any lean mass. Honestly, you can hit 9% or 10% that way maybe even a bit lower. If you're a big guy walking around at 9% and you don't think that looks awesome, get some psychiatric help. LMAO
All the BB prep chemicals are wasted money in my mind and really hard on your organs and just plain unhealthy. If you're not sure how unhealthy it is, run bloods - don't forget thyroid and a lipid profile.
You touched on something I was thinking about earlier myself. Most of us suffer from body dysmorphia in some form or another and we a ridiculously hard on ourselves. I am probably 13% and get compliments daily yet in my head I am still not happy. This is us. And if I had one warning for the dudes that have not use yet it would be that once the genie is out of the bottle there is very little chance you will turn back.
This statement is very true ,I been at this ,25 + years note about 21 natty no aas. But I must agree for 50 years old I get compliments out the ass ,fuck put a bag over the head I'd pass for 30ish. ,ya l know I lmao also ,but the truth is the truth ,the grey shines through and 20years inside shows the stress line ...i am my own worst critic god dam so what I got a little spare tire , just enough for the wife to grab on to ,but I'm not.to happy. So ill stop alot of truth in your state ment
I am thrilled for the dudes here (Makwa for one) that can shred right down but for any of us although we may have it up for a goal it is not the be all and end all for us. Hell, I like to live a little too, especially in the summer. I am over 40, look fantastic and feel fantastic. I am of sound mind and if I feel like running tren so what? I treat tren with respect and so far she has rewarded me.
Definitely suffering from body dismorpia myself. Like you I get compliments all the time but in my mind I'm never satisfied. I tell myself I will be once I hit my goal weight and bf. like you said we're way to hard on ourselves despite the fact we look better then probably 95% of the population. Especially guys your age. most can't see their own dicks cauee their stomachs are so fkn fat.
RustyhookerAgree with ya!! Guys our age typically all washed out dad bod style.
It is the truth.
We always seem to be busting peoples chops for not maximizing their natty potential and jumping right into a cycle. On the same token, why aren't we busting peoples chops for not maximizing their "natty" fat-loss first before hopping right into a cycle. Just something to ponder. I see it time and time again recommending to someone (I do it myself) that they bring their BF down to 15% or so before starting a cycle. If their ultimate goal is to run a cutting cycle, is that really where they should be starting their cycle? If they have been able to bring their BF down to that level naturally, my recommendation is to keep on going and see how low you can get it with your diet and cardio before you hit a plateau or you notice you are starting to lose muscle mass. Don't just start your cycle at a set number because someone said it was ok once you hit that number. For some people that may be 15%. For others, like me for instance, it is a piece of cake to lose bodyfat without much muscle loss until I reach about 10-11%. Then the going gets tough. Everybody is different and will likely stall at different bodyfat levels. So I guess the point I was trying to make here is that starting your cut with to high of a bodyfat when you could have lost more naturally is really shortchanging the maximimum potential of your cycle and I'm all about maximum potential with a cycle. If I would start my cut at 15% bodyfat, that next 5% would pretty much be a waste of steriods for me, since I could have lost that 5% additional bodyfat just naturallly until i hit about 10% where I would actually need the assistance of some AAS to spare muscle tissue. So my bottom line thinking is maximize what you can lose fairly easy naturally and then bring out drugs to aid you further.
If you have been in this game for a while, most of you probably know your sticking point where the fat loss becomes a chore and you need the aid of AAS to take it further. This is probably more directed towards those first-timers thinking that they want to do a cycle to lose some fat. If that is the case don't just hop onto a cycle without first figuring what your sticking point for BF% is. You will be able to take your cycle further and likely reach a higher goal than you previously thought you could.
Right on, and there is no denying your words are truth.
For me Im at the point where I don't want to gain 10 more pounds of mass, I feel like once you get over 240lbs you start to have weight that is not useable for sports like mma, football, and basketball. All your good for is putting up weight in a gym and to me that is just pointless. id rather be where im at 6'4, 231lbs, 7%bf. I use tren and mast because it literally makes me look unreal and I love the aggression it gives.
I think a few blanks need to be filled in here. To add a little to what Makwa is maybe trying to get across is that you do not need tren, mast or winny at 15% bf to really make much of a difference.
On the flipside, yes a simple test cycle will help you retain muscle mass while cutting. It can be a great tool while in the teens in bf. If your trt or just have naturally high test then you shouldn't have a problem cutting weight and losing any muscle if you diet correctly. Give yourself the proper time and take off weight slowly. Be real with yourself, and your bf%. Some people think they are only 20 lbs overweight and when they lose the 20 lbs they realize they grossly underestimated how much fat they really had on them.
Here is an example of what worked for me before @15%bf
wk 1-6 test prop 300mg wk by the end of wk 6 I'm around 10%bf
wk 7-14 test prop 300 mg tren a 525mg boom hard dense and ripped! Yep alot of pinning, cardio and chicken breast, but I didn't waste the tren to get me from 15% to 10%
I hear ya, and technically you are likely right if approaching this from a bodybuilding perspective. I can tell you that most all of my cycles have been geared towards cutting. I have never actually lost weight but my BF compared to what it was in I joined here is drastically lower and yet I still look freakishly huge compared to the mortals I interact with on a daily basis. That is muscle.
So while I appreciate your purist view I think it comes off as overly critical. Some of us never plan on hitting the stage and we will never care if the purist turns their nose up at us for our use of AAS on our personal journey. Same goes for those mortals doing the same thing from the opposite perspective. I am over 40 and am capable of making up my own mind. Thanks bro.
The reason I do a cutting g cycle, is to preserve and Gain lean muscle.
I'm just not a huge fan of bulk on my body, I am an endurance athlete and I will be for using on doing 2 hours plus of CARDIO a day.
I do to want to look like a bean pole, I want to look like a serious in shape mmajunkie.com fighter
Low fat, swole muscles, and have functional CARDIO and strength.
Yes from a BB perspective like you say, it makes more sense to bulk because it's harder to put on ten pounds of muscle then lose ten of fat.
I will do both, I have before and this time will be the peak of my performance and body shape and size.
But to me when I think bulk I think 6 months 25 pounds of muscle.
Sure it's risky to use advanced compounds like tren, t3,and to an extent even hgh. All these things have a cost, and not all gear is a win win scenario.
I look forward to being in the best shape of my life by Xmas this year. We will then recover and bulk and maintain single digit body fat all year.
I agree with u bro I'm currently cutting on cycle but only to preserve some muscle as I drop...... But I honestly feel like I'm still growing while cutting I did bulk through my pct and off cycle.
But yes I mainly think cutting while on take is to preserve muscle gained
RustyhookerSounds like speculation from a purist bodybuilder. Tren stage prep I can believe. That stuff is just stronger than needed.
Problem with purist thinking isn't the fat drop. It's muscle retention. It's nieve to think there's only one way to cut fat.
First, anyone should know from the start the actual job of a steroid. It's not solely to build muscle. It's also used to preserve it. That's not rocket science!
So you're on some natural cutter with your herbs and Gnc crap. Guess what? You're also calorie deficit as well! You can preach a belief but how the human body fights for survival is millions of years old. Muscle loss is exactly what happens!
Folks doing a basic garage rat cutter can easily maintain mass with the simple test 500 and anavar. Anavar used end cycle.
1-12 test e 500 split
8-14 var 50 mg ed
"BUT VAR IS A WASTE. YOU CANT SEE THE RESULTS"
I'm hollering bs! Folks use tren because it's 5 times more anabolic---muscle sparing-- than test. But it's also very harsh and gains can be lost quickly. But go to any anabolic chart and read how anabolic anavar is, you'll be suprised. Less sides, if any and rated about 6 times as anabolic, it will Preserve muscle during calories defecit.
Either we teach the newbs straight honest or get used to tren cycles. And we really should open the truth on that as well.
I lost 27 pounds after bad injury. Used a simple cycle. 2 hours cardio split every day. And yes, my foods were 100% on point.
My forum about It's not the gear. Here's viking reply...
VIKING EVOLUTION 10 months ago
Sorry the burst the bubble about it not being about the gear!............... IT IS when it is used properly
You should have no problem retaining muscle when in a slight calorie deficit, especially in the higher BF range. Cut your cals to drastically and you will loose muscle, even with AAS you will still lose muscle if you get to severe with your calorie deficit. Drop only 1-2 lbs per week and you should have no problems retaining muscle mass without AAS. Start dropping more than that and you are likely losing muscle as well. Everybody wants to be single digit bodyfat in matter of weeks, that is why they are losing mass and resorting to AAS to try and make up for it. Be smart about weight loss and the loss will be mostly fat and not muscle.
RustyhookerGood example for older seasoned folks that can do it like that. But here there's the yolo crowd. If it's not found here, done properly then in si or another site it will be found.
Tren for example. My first run, I had folks walk me through it. So I was informed and realized what to expect. During my "cutter" , I not only added 10 rock solid but I also dropped about 4% bf. In 10 weeks. It was harsh on my old dude system but it worked. Pct was the worst. My biggest error was dropping carbs too low. I did great with big clean carbs than keto.
Comparing that tren run to test and var....I'll take test and var first.
You're a pro at your diet. Probably never over 8% bf ever. And it shows! But food alone isn't cutting the mustard anymore. Not for anyone going to try competition.