+ 1 Trying to figure out why I have become so lethargic? low test?
Hey guys, so I have ran two cycles, and proper PCT on both, and recovered and maintain most of my gains.
I'm 30 years old, 6'1, 240 lbs, and lately I have just had zero energy. Nothing has really changed, I maintain a good diet, and besides lifting I also play a few different spots, so I am active.
Lately, my motivation has tanked, feels like borderline depression during that initial drop in test after ending a cycle. No longer have morning wood. So I am starting to get a little worried. If this was while I was on any gear, I'd be adjusting things. But I only take a multi-vitamin and fish oil currently, zero meds, nothing.
Ever since my first blood test that measured my testosterone levels in my early 20's, and 8 years before my first cycle. I've always had fairly low testosterone it seems. Never above 500.
Is it just how I am, or is it possible there has always been something that has always been wrong with me? During my first and second cycle, I always feel good, like just a better sense of well being. Is my mind playing tricks on me and wanting this feeling more?
So essentially what I am wondering is if I am healthy and my test is just naturally low, is there anyone out there that using HRT to bump up to a high range permanently?
I know 400 isn't terrible, but it's not great, and part of me wonders if this is an issue. Just so you guys are aware, since I started worrying about this, I took a blood test today and will post my results. I have read somewhere that 400 is the level of a 70 year old and it's got me thinking.
Here is my last blood test from a year ago.
https://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/60621/bloods.jpg
I will post my new blood shortly. I guess the basis of my question...do I have to live life at 400 natural test level or is it ludicrous to supplement long term? I guess I the biggest worry would be having children later on. Or to just continue cycling.
thanks I appreciate any input.
Here is my new blood test, apparently I didn't order a thyroid test, I will go back for it.
New blood's show 383 of total test
https://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/60621/test2_1.jpg
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At what time was the blood test from a yr ago taken. At what time you took the new test? How's your blood pressure?
Haven't taken BP in awhile actually, I'll check that. Both were taken at 8am.
Your bloods look unremarkable bud. Of course in this game we also look for other markers. (Albumin and SBGH and Free test) however, your average doctor may say that your labs look good and therefore no treatment on a hormonal level. When your T3 and T4 come back post them up as well. I would make sure you have those before you go to your doctor so that if they try and dismiss any issues or want to order other labs you can hand him the ones he will need at the appointment. Do not offer them before he mentions anything. Just tell him the symptoms and let him assess you.
You may end up having to speak to an endo or anti aging specialist.
I have my appointment for Monday, I'll get my T3 and T4 checked tomorrow morning in this case.
I honestly don't expect much from a GP, he's going to see that it's "in range" and therefore I'm decrepit...therefore I'm fine.
I'm sure many of us here, myself included, we're looking to live life a little bit above "the low range" of anything...
Appreciate all the feedback, I am also considering another members advice of another round of PCT, I contemplated HcG as well. But I just want to square away any pathology before I start to mess around with anything.
If stress is a factor, I'm going on a 3 week Euro trip in a week...so I hope to return very relaxed...at which point I assume cortisol will be lowered...if it's there.
The downside is I will not be training much besides a few lift sessions with friends, and hikes, kayaking, horseback riding, etc, and will definitely be indulging in foreign foods, and the occasional sangria or wine, but you have to live a little.
I do not see the point in another pct or adding HCG unless your LH and FSH are significantly lower than last years. At this point they are healthy in comparison to what your total test levels are. Meaning they are completing the negative and positive feed back loop for your HPTA. Worst case might be that you like having a little higher test and you like how you feel when on it. Those ranges are very broad and ambiguous. Who the hells knows how to qualitatively assess happiness and productivity on such a large spectrum of subjects ranging from 18-70
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get in for a T3 draw before the doctor's appointment. My doctor was fairly dismissive in general.
I told him my symptoms, and he just ordered a full metabolic panel, and ordered his own hormone levels. In the end I showed him my blood tests, and he spent a total of 30 seconds looking at it, and said it's all fine... Blood looks good, liver looks good, "testosterone is a little low" and unless I am having trouble with sex...then that's just the way it is.
So we'll see after the T3.
I think you might be right...I found low testosterone and trying to justify running a cycle again, and perhaps equating it to bringing me happiness.... Hell, maybe I'll do it after all my bloods come back okay. It's good to see that my liver is okay after a Tren cycle.
Lastly, tell me if this is flawed logic...I thought that maybe I good bump up my testosterone if I cycle again...pack on more meat...then when I am off I'll have more chance of maintaining a higher testosterone. I have seen many members with similar bloods, cycling on and off without issues.
It'll be a good test...3 week vacation, take a break from everything, and come back immediately to a blood test and see the impact. I'm hoping my cortisol will be very low upon my return.
Once again, I really appreciate all the members input... it's why I came here, I thought I could get some solid responses.I'm not looking for answers, but guidance.
In the end I told him I'm taking a flight to Europe, and he tried to give me zoloft for sleeping, I told him I don't want any SSRI's and he gave me Ambien instead. I didn't even want it, but it was in the essence "oh this will help you with travel, it's what I use" I took the script, but just kind of scratched my head.
First let's address the doctor. We knew this was a high possibility so you were expecting this. You could do a little homework and look for an endocrinologist who would be more apethetic to your situation snd understand that 324 is not a good spot for you. You will still need to get medical care and tests but at least you will be under a qualified doctor.
Secondly let s address this connection you have with happiness vs happiness and well being on a cycle and acknowledge that there is a difference. I think if you can be honest with yourself and remember times before steroids then you may have your answer. On the other hand if you really feel you general sense of well being has increased while on cycle; and a qualified physician will not hell you then many a personal trt experiment may be in order starting out with your base blood levels you could run Sust 250 once every 7 days and check levels at 5 weeks. If your levels are double but well within range than you have something to work with. 250 a week of cyp or enact hate should work and you probably would. It need an AI. If your levels are in the 1200 and up you clearly are too high for trt. This will tell you how truly you just want to be on just the right amount or even more. Now you are cruising and blasting which is not the purpose of this response. If you are high you have a couple choices. One is to simply half the shot on the once a week schedule or the other option is to spread out the interval maybe to 10-14 days.
Now lastly I do not see the wisdom in jumping on a cycle to bring levels up so they can come down to an acceptable level and have a good vacation. Once the HPTA is messed with without the proper PCT in place it could take 6-9 months for natural test levels to rebound. This is in part to a post cycle crash and there are ways around it but you need to do some homework yourself bud. The idea of having to enjoy Europe while dealing with bitch like emotions does not sound like a relaxing time. I'm all for staying off benzos so good call. The ambien will not hurt you so take them and get some rest. In fact you should take blood test right before you go and then while on vacation try to get at least ten hours of sleep a day. Then come back and take your levels again.
For the record for you at this point it is a bad idea to introduce several exogenous compounds into your body with very little data and real experience right before you go to Europe.
I wish you the best luck buddy!
Sorry if my post was somehow unclear cry_havoc. I have zero intention of touching anything until I am back from my trip. Check my bloods AFTER a vacation and I am hoping they will be better on their own. As you are saying, I need to make sure I am not just low or if there is something pathological causing this issue. Introducing anything without good evidence will make the truth murky.
I was simply stating that it seems it is very possible that I am healthy and simply my testosterone has gone down, to a low range...that is still healthy. You're right I know I have been happy before ever touching testosterone, but I sometimes speculate whether ignorance is bliss. Perhaps most of my adult life I've been dealing with low testosterone and once I know the difference, I want to feel that again. I can tell you for a fact, I can still have sex and maintain an erection...but that's about it. I don't get morning wood, it takes a lot for my girl to rev me up...I still perform well, but it's as if I'm stuck in 2nd gear...and I still have 3, 4, 5. Orgasms and sex itself is just not as good, and I am not as interested.
I am considering doing something that you are suggesting, the only thing is on hand I have a lot of test enanathate...even though sus would be ideal. I would prefer to use what I got. I am hoping I won't get moon face on the enan... I know it's all about estrogen control. When I used enanathate I was using too low of an arimidex dose, and found that aromasin works much better for me.
My shaky idea was either self-administer TRT or run a cycle with the hopes of having higher test stick around after my HPTA is recovered. Pack on a lot of meat, and then once I am recovered perhaps I will have higher test...very shaky and flawed logic potentially though.
That is the idea...a lot of sleep, and lot of rest and relaxation for my vacation and then re-test upon my return. I am happy to know that my liver and most other vitals have recovered well, showing me that I did a decent job protecting my liver...or it just recovers well.
So thanks again, and sorry for misleading you. I would never jump into a cycle on a whim to try to self-medicate. I spoke to a TRT doc that looked at my numbers and said that I can't get it covered for insurance but they can get me to the upper level of the healthy range (1000). The catch is it's expensive, $395/month includes your AI but... that's steep in my book for a light test cyp cycle. Also...not wretchedly expensive, but I could get away for much cheaper.
I am packed and ready to go, so I am going to relax, come back...and see how my blood work.
RustyhookerDoctors are pill pushers. Privatemdlabs.com . Get your own testing done and post up.
Megat883 has a blood group. Join, ask and get proper bloods done. Doctors just irritate me.
hey guys, I've added the new test, it's missing the T3 I thought I ordered. Free test of 383. I made an appointment with my doctor and see what he says
RustyhookerFree test 383 should be good. Total test would then be much higher. Dr is definitely the way to go. I'd just guess though something simple missing
Edit...your test shows TOTAL 383. Not free test. See Dr though to iron it out. Estro was low/good. Wonder what your FREE test is?
Thanks for the clarification, I edited my main post, can't edit the reply. Yes... we'll see. I'll see if he runs it himself.
Do you have sleep apnea at all?
No I do not, at least not from what I know. I purposely tried to work on sleep, so I went to bed after work, slept roughly 11 hours and felt better...but regardless, still feel out of it.
I think you are doing everything correct to get yourself right. The guys on here seem to be giving you good advice. The only thing I would add is in the future make sure you have bloods before you start, mid cycle and right before pct and after. These are ththe benchmarks that tell you how your body is reacting and recovering.along with your labs you wanna see FSH and LH in relationship to your test levels. There can also be a lot of other factors like Rusty said. Family life, relationship and even jobs.
Once you have new labs post them up and let's take a look.
I applaud your courage coming to the board with something like this and you obviously knew what we were going to look for!
+2 from me
thanks cry_havoc, it's not easy to think there is an issue with myself. But I am not happy with the way things are, so I am trying to be proactive and figure it out instead of just complaining. I appreciate it.
I have posted my new bloods, here they are. Test is in fact only 383 right now, taken on an empty stomach at 8am just like my last one... a little bit worried...
https://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/60621/test2_1.jpg
I didn't get my T3 measured, I could of sworn I thought that's what the metabolic panel was.
AnonAnabolicMen.com
This site has all things natural testosterone boosting and it will help if you think that's the problem. But just cause your feeling lethargic doesn't mean its testosterone related.
Bloods from a year ago aren't much help. I would get them done again and get your thyroid levels checked. That could be a contributing factor in how you're feeling.
TronGood idea.. didn't think about the thyroid thing +1
Ordered a metabolic panel along with the test level! So we'll see.
TronSometimes.. and this may or may not be the case. It is just a mental thing that results in a physical decline. 400 is not really that low of test. Not enough so that you should be feeling the way you do especially if this is a new feeling that you have never felt because if you think about it you have had low test all your life. If this is a new feeling for you maybe it's just time to re-evaluate your life and pin point what it may be... your very active .. are you getting enough sleep? giving your body enough rest? stressed out about relationships,job,life,etc.? Post those new bloods when you get them and we can talk more from there my friend.
Thank you for the kind reply, sounds good. Relationship is going pretty damn good, if anything she is a source of happiness. Life in general is pretty good. Stressed sometimes about school since I am working AND going to school right now, but nothing I can't handle. You're correct, I would be feeling it, I guess I am already assuming/guessing that my test will be below 400.
Sleep has been OK, not great.
TronMale Female
Age: T Level (ng/dL): Age: T Level (ng/dL):
0-5 months 75-400 0-5 months 20-80
6 mos.-9 yrs. <7-20 6 mos.-9 yrs. <7-20
10-11 yrs. <7-130 10-11 yrs. <7-44
12-13 yrs. <7-800 12-16 yrs. <7-75
14 yrs. <7-1,200 17-18 yrs. 20-75
15-16 yrs. 100-1,200 19+ yrs. 8-60
17-18 yrs. 300-1,200
19+ yrs. 240-950
Avg. Adult Male 270-1,070 Avg. Adult Female 15-70
30+ yrs. -1% per year
what about tsh?
3.110
3.1 would put you in a high normal range. You might want to check your t4 and t3 levels also. It is possible to have a high normal TSH and still be hypothyroid.
RustyhookerBelow 300 is low. Need your new tests to begin. Stress, vitamins, hydration and even sleep issues kill energy, sex and life. More than just test bro
I will post them once I get them, and we can continue to discuss. Hopefully by Friday. I know there is a lot of factors, but I guess its just a shot in the dark. So I figured I'd start there. I swear if I go to a doctor they'll just suggest an anti-depressant or something.