+ 52 Scientific Proof : Lower your BF% before Cycling
You hear it over and over again in the cycle logs ”you should lower your body fat before starting this cycle.” Usually the reasoning behind this is because it will help to minimize potential sides such as gyno and high blood pressure, which is true. But let me give you another maybe even more convincing reason why you should lower your body fat as low as possible before cycling. Because you will gain more muscle. That is why we are putting these compounds into our body in the first place isn’t it? So why would you shortchange the amount of quality muscle you could gain by starting your cycle when you are too fat. Don’t be lazy and drop that body fat before you start your cycle so you can gain more mass when you are finished with it.
I am not talking broscience here. It is an actual scientific fact that has been proven that the leaner you are when you start your cycle the more muscle mass you will be able to gain. It all boils down to what is termed nutrient partitioning.
Nutrient Partitioning
Nutrient partitioning is the body’s ability to shuttle nutrients into either building lean muscle mass or storing those nutrients as fat. The beauty of this is that you can directly influence this nutrient partitioning to be geared more towards lean muscle building or fat storage based upon your current amount of body fat. This has been scientifically proven by Forbe’s Theory.
Forbe’s Theory
Forbe’s was able to prove in his research that there is a logarithmic relationship between fat gain and lean body mass gain. This showed that the extent of lean body mass gain (or loss) was dependent on the starting body fat % in humans and even in other species.
So what does this mean in layman’s terms? It means the lower your body fat is when you start your cycle, the better your muscle gains are going to be. If this isn’t reason enough to lower your body fat to an acceptable level before you cycle, then I don’t know what else I can do to convince you.
Acceptable body fat % before starting cycle
I know you are dying to know what an acceptable body fat % is. Obviously the lower the better but the anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that anything in the range of 10-15% is an acceptable level for partitioning nutrients into muscle growth preferentially over fat storage. Above 15% the opposite holds true, there will be more fat gain versus muscle growth.
Ponder this for a second. Have you ever noticed how bodybuilders and physique competitors just seem to get leaner and more muscular each year while your average gym rat pretty much seems to stay the same for the most part? Here is the reason. Every time these guys get stage ready their body fat is uber-low so that now their body is super-efficient at nutrient partitioning. Their bodies are now much more effective in using the food they eat to be directed towards muscle growth instead of being stored as fat.
Negative Partitioning Agents
Let me throw something else at you here, and that is negative partitioning agents. So let’s say your body is primed and ready to go for optimum nutrient partitioning because you have finally lowered your BF% to an acceptable level. Don’t short circuit the process by consuming negative partitioning agents. What these negative partitioning agents are is junk food. The quality of the food you eat also affects nutrient partitioning. When you are eating good clean foods like chicken, tuna, oatmeal, sweet potatoes, etc. your body is able to use these nutrients for lean mass growth. When you fill up on junk food that is processed and refined you are going to disrupt the normal metabolic processes of your body and your body will be conditioned to store more fat than creating muscle. So all food is not created equal. Eating 1000 calories of Twinkies, donuts and pizza is not the same as eating 1000 calories of chicken, tuna and oatmeal. The negative partitioning agents (junk food) will signal your body to store those nutrients into fat cells whereas the latter foods will have your body shuttling those nutrients into lean body mass.
Compounds that Improve Nutrient Partitioning
We talked about negative partitioning agents, so how about some compounds that can improve nutrient partitioning. These compounds will help increase the percentage of the nutrients and calories that go into muscle building instead of fat storage. Obviously one of the ways that AAS impart their effects is through improved nutrient partitioning but here is a list of other compounds that have been reported to improve nutrient partitioning as well (just don't expect them to be on the same level as AAS):
- Fish oil - be sure to be taking your Omegas
- Ephedrine
- BCAA's (L-leucine in particular)
- DHEA
- Lecithin
- Tyramine
- Creatine
- ALCAR (acetyl-l-carnitine)
- Green tea extract
- CLA (Conjugated linolaic acid)
Final Thoughts
Your starting body fat % is going to have a profound effect on the overall quality mass that you will be able to gain on your cycle. Having excess body fat will decrease your overall muscle gains. This is scientific fact and not broscience. If you truly are serious about running a cycle, you now have proof on why you need to be under 15% BF before you start and to truly maximize gains you should be even lower.
Ref:
Body fat and fat-free mass inter-relationships: Forbes's theory revisited. Br J Nutr. 2007 Jun;97(6):1059-63. Epub 2007 Mar 19
Body fat content influences the body composition response to nutrition and exercise. Forbes GB. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2000 May; 904:359-65.
Body composition: what's new? Kyle UG, Genton L, Pichard C. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2002 Jul; 5(4):427-33.
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Where is your selfie mr iifym?

Smfh let me know how that works out when your cholesterol is through the roof and all that plaque build up catches up to you. I'm an ecto and and damn good shape , but instead of eating junk I worry about longevity , just because you look good on the outside doesn't mean shit.I put on all my weight with quality food not McDonalds , poppa johns , dominos and hostess cakes. A calorie is not a calorie, not all carbs are the same just like all fats are not the same. Even ( succesful) power lifters eat food that their body needs not what their mind and taste buds want.Dexter Jackson has been looking great the past few years you know why? Because he stopped eating a ton of junk in the off season and started packing on the clean cals. IIfym has nothing to do with working it has to do with genetics and that's it, clean dieting works for everyone and every genetic body type iifiym does not.....two bodybuilders get onstage one iifiym one who diets clean the one who diets clean always looks better hands down. All these new fads , new diets, new works outs , people need to be more dedicated and do what works and works well they call them diets for a reason . If it was fun and easy everyone would be doing it. If iifym was any type of legit their would be people packing down ice cream, cookies, cakes , pizza and fast food during their preps for competition. Too many people dirty bulk then they have to shed off a fuck ton of junk because they ate whatever fit into their mouths.
Your argument has completely broke down: IIFYM is not synonymous with dirty bulking. Just because you ate a meal of chicken and broccoli, your body doesn't have some kind of indicator that sends it all to muscle and says "oh hey, this is CLEAN food". By the same token, if you ate a slice of pizza, all of it's calories are not automatically stored as fat. I hate to break this to you but you can still become fat as fuck eating your chicken, rice and broccoli. This ignorant way of thinking makes me face palm hard.
RustyhookerYour idealistic views are moot and redundant. You're making gear heads look 1970 style stupid. A cheat meal, sure occasionally. But fill your face full of shit and when you triple bypass, we'll still be pumping viagra and juice while banging granny til her poon pops.
You lost. Move along....
The drugs that we are taking detrimentally impact our bodies in a million different ways more than a open minded diet regime such as IIFYM. IIFYM doesn't mean you eat ice cream and twinkies all day. A cheat meal? So you are already essentially an advocate of IIFYM. Please enlighten me where this cheat meal fits into your strict diet? I'm guessing it doesn't because it's called a cheat meal? Oh so it was a moment of weakness? A much needed refresher to alleviate all that mental drain of a strict diet? Please..
Strategically placed "Cheat meals" spark a stagnant metabolism. Not rocket science.
Why would your metabolism be stagnant with such a flawless and perfectly executed diet as mentioned above? (Devils advocate)
No iifym means you potentially could eat a twinkie and a bowl of ice cream everyday as long as it fits in your macros. Cheat meals rarely happen , sometimes not for weeks so nope its not iifym , it is actually a break from strenuous dedicated dieting of an athlete with some type of self control it isn't weakness its a treat. Mental drain I don't think about my diet I stick to it because it works , what do you? Eat m&ms as long as they fit into your macros?
I probably eat the same meals you do throughout the day. The only difference is a few food items in which you deem as "dirty". Don't worry though, I'm sure every single calorie of my "trashy" food will be stored as fat.
fuck it im done you win , you make yourself look dumb enough ttyl
LOL you called him ignorant
did you not read what wny_muscle posted?
only people face palming hard are people reading your bullshit
lmfao what ever you say bro. Good luck with iifym , whats next you going to tell me crossfit is superior? My next prep ill eat a tub of frosting every day and as long as it fits in my macros im good to go right? You also believe if you drink 2 protein shakes a 100 grams of whey in each your all set for your protein intake for the day?
only if your pizza has 2 scoops on it
I see ill have to write that down. Maybe ill just bulk with tv dinners as all calories carbs and fats are the same and the body doesn't know the difference between a glass of coke and a glass of milk. Better yet ill make my breakfast jelly beans as long as it fits into my macros that is....
I tried that with the hungry man dinners a long time ago. No, it didn't work. But that sodium rush ooo weee!
Too bad a glass of coke and a glass of milk don't yield the same nutrient breakdown. The logic on some of these replies are laughable (and scary at the same time).
fuck it im done you win , you make yourself look dumb enough ttyl
In the case of an ectomorph (hardgainer), I agree with you that any type of calorie is a good calorie for them. They don't need to worry about the negative partitioning agents. I don't know if you saw it but I actually wrote a post about that.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/weight-gain/the-har...
For the rest of us meso and endomorphs though, a seafood diet would not be in our best interest. It just wreaks to much havoc on our insulin levels which is going to be counterproductive in the long run.
Unless you have Nitti genetics, then you can eat whatever the hell you get your hands on... that bastard!!!
RustyhookerIt's a lot more fun starting lean. Eat and grow without bp, estro, 2 hours split cardio, pure eating....well written!!
Only downside to this is the power lifters. They're not lean in the heavyweight classes but will certainly pop a head like it's a grape. Kinda pushes things into a one size fits all catagory. Like nitti post a while back on what classification are you. Gym rat, powerlifter, bodybuilding, look good nekkid?
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/eroiders-get-in-where-....
About fucking time someone puts this up. Good on you mak this definitely be a sticky.
Hitman187Good info, def sticky worthy. +1
Makwa great read man this will help many members +1
Excellent write up. I unfortunately am one of the dumbasses that started my first cycle at too high of bf % mainly because I didn't know. I thought I was 18-20 and I worked my ass off to get to that # and it turns out I was more likely 25%+. I am currently sitting at about 20% and I'm still working on lowering it daily but as someone stated on here recently muscle is gained in oz not pounds. The same can be said of fat loss imo. At any rate +1 and thanks for all the informative posts lately. You've really opened my eyes on a few things
Mak coming through again, great read my man as always. +1
Great post man I enjoyed reading it good information there!!!!
facts! +1.. no fitness enthusiast should be over 15% bf anyways, if they are, they don't haveenough discipline to cycle ..
Excellent post............. i am taking this into the MOD forum for a stickie vote so that so that BIG% bodyfat guys can be redirected easily when the posts crop up regarding these issues.
Really good info.............. +3.
Ugh oh...the hammer is back!?

That would be cool. I really wanted to research this because I just wasn't feeling comfortable telling someone they should lower their BF before starting their cycle without giving them a good reason why. Hopefully this is a good enough reason now.
Great write up i believe this to be true which is the reason im trying to lose more body fat at the moment and iv alwayd read that after a bodybuilding comp competitors will blow up with muscle the month after after restricting carbs for so long your body will be able to absorb nutrients into muscles we want go grow and not the fat .... which is what u said lol
Great post. I am curious how 15% became the magic number tho. I know for myself I started AAS at around 20%, granted I am older and that fist cycle was not a huge success, it was more of a learning experience than anything. Since then BF has lowered visibly and my gains have been even more visible (to say the least) but I am not willing to say I have ever crossed south of 15%.
So while I agree that if you really want to completely maximize the gears potential you are spot on. I will also note that the guys in the 5% range above that can make substantial gains and them gains will inspire these dudes to step up their game and keep working to lower their BF.
There are lots of graphs in those reports and I probably spent about an hour and half studying them to come up with the 10-15% range. that seemed to be about the breaking point. There is also discussion of p-ratio's (which represent's the amount of protein lost or gained) with even more graphs which helped to back that range up.
No doubt, a person can make pretty good gains starting a cycle above 15%, but I am all about maximizing gains which can be accomplished with a lower starting bodyfat.
And you are right that is the difference, good versus maximum. Maximum being full beastmode.
I was really getting frustrated seeing all of these people wanting to run cycles at 20+% BF so I dug deep to come up with valid reason why they need to wait. If being able to gain more muscle in the end is not a good enough reason, then I don't know what is.
STICKIE for the cycles section???
This is a good read. Should be required reading for noobs. It would make a great sticky too!
Edit...have to admit I always have bf higher than it should be.
Excellent article Mak.
Great post Makwa! This should be a sticky!