posted Thu, 02/12/2015 - 08:41
4794
Mixing trenbolone and nandralone
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I've heard over and over that mixing these two is the worst thing you can do. I'd like to shed some light on why because I'm not even sure. Any knowledge or experience you have is welcome. Let's learn the reasons
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i wouldnt run the 2 together but you can add it into a cycle after deca but i know people who run 8 weeks deca followed by 8 weeks tren and it works like crazy shit but you'd be better off doing this as someone who cruises cause recovery is gonna be like a bad case of pms
One word - RECOVERY. It isn't often pretty.
It's an advanced cycle technique, one that I've done personally on more than one occasion. It's viewed as a big "no no" on this forum and there are examples why that's the case in this thread. I see people discussing doing it themselves that have no need to be putting themselves under that strain.
Personally I think this is "advanced cycles group" material only.
Yeah I thought that this should maybe be in the advanced section. Maybe a mod should move it. I don't want anyone getting the wrong ideas. This is just a post to learn and gain knowledge. I don't recommend anyone trying mixing these
My next cycle is going to be
Tren E 600mg / wk 1-16
Deca 600mg / wk 1-16
Anadrol 50mg / day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off
Test E 125mg / wk forever
Opinions?
125mg of test vs 600mg of tren won't do anything for you.
Please explain.
StevebNo, people just throw a little Deca in with their Tren to help their joints. Pick one or the other.
This looks like a totally bad idea to me. id like to see what others have to say about it. Why test so low ? The deca alone with test that low will probably make your dick not work
I've run just the test and deca at the exact same ratio and had zero sexual problems. Estrogen is what causes all of the sexual problems with deca and I aromatize like a bitch even at 250mg / wk of test so why add fuel to the fire?
I run tren e at 600mg a week when I run it and the last time I ran npp,I ran it at 600mg a week.Next run of npp will be at 500mg a week.I blew up on 600mg a week.30lbs in 8 weeks and I came off at week 8.I started tren e at week 6 at 600mg a week and ran that until week 14.The tren helped shed a bunch of the water and some fat from the npp.Next run I went 300mg tren e and 300mg npp(I don't have any nd or I would have run that).It was one of the best cycles I have run.Good strength and weight gains and not crazy weight gains like I got from the npp alone(test is run with all cycles at about 300mg a week).I reduced body fat also.It's probably not something I would do if I had to run a pct(trt).Although at those doses,I can't see it being any worse than running a full dose of either one.19 nors don't hit me like they do a lot of people.I might get 3 or 4 nights of night sweats on a tren run.Trensomnia doesn't really start until about week 10 and even then,it's not that bad.No anger issues.Tren isn't the magic fat burner for me like it seems to be for some people.I have to do cardio,plain and simple.I fucking hate cardio.
Thats just parroted bulllshit broscience. 90% of the people who say you shouldn't do it most likely havent tried it themselves. I have not yet so i cant add any real life experience but i will in a few months cause i run deca low dose in all my cycles for my joints and ill be running tren in late spring so no re life exp until then. But logically thinking about it they are both very harsh on the hpta so shutdown will be bad, and second prolactin issues which are way over hyped as it is. If your one who's sensitive to prolactin you'll probably have problems running two at a time but if you aren't prolactin sensitive you should be fine.
The only reason i would run them together is like i stated, i use deca low dose for joints. I wouldn't run both of them at full doses. IT just doesnt make sense to ME. To others it might, but for me i wouldn't bother. Maybe some day just to experiment
I concur. Currently I'm on 250 cyp, 400 deca, 200 tren e per week and I'm loving it. No prolactin sides, my estro is easily controlled, and I'm making more consistent gains than I have in quite some time. Coming off an illness where I was probably 208 at best, I'm now sitting at 225 with only a slight amount of fat gain and this is just after a month and a half at most. I basically did the same as you with the deca, was running it for joint protection but decided I wanted a little more out of it. The tren I kept low because I do get pretty bad trensomnia at standard doses, but I'm still benefiting from the strength gains of tren at 200/wk. All in all probably one of my favorite combos ever. I will say I am TRT so no concern about restart, but the results while on are terrific.
StevebTren seems like more of a cutter and Deca is more of a bulker. I would rather take more of one or the other that a little of both. I feel good on Deca but I feel like shit on Tren.
So I wonder if there would be any benefit to running a higher dose of deca with a lower dose of tren. It doesn't really make too much sense to me but you never know
big john, see my reply to irongame above
StevebI ran Deca and EQ together and everyone said it was a dumb thing to do. It was a good cycle, the EQ made me eat a lot and the Deca made me strong as fuck. After I stopped the Deca the Deca bloat went away and all the veins from the EQ showed more.
Test E Week 1-16
Deca Week 1-12
EQ Week 1-16
Prop taper til I started PCT.
P2i2twell the reason I am kind of advocating for it is because when I did it I had absolutely no problems. I did it for the same exact reasons myself. I was running tren but my joints were killing me. I did 100mg npp e3d. no problems whatsoever. I had my caber dialed in perfectly. It was basically a tren cycle with just a little shot of nandrolone for the joints. Not for the muscle effects at all. but I see here a lot of people don't recommend it. but they are also thinking of it from what I see anyways what is posted so far as running higher milligrams then what is being asked about here.All I can say is my personal experience. Running tren for my cycle with low dose NPP in my personal body works fine with no backlashes.
This is good. Experience is more important than theory. I hope this discussion bring out all aspects of running these together so we learn. Doing the therapudic low dose like your talking about and running two higher doses like others are talking about. This is something that needs to be discussed
P2i2tYou are absolutely right. also the good thing about this is if you do try it out and for some reason don't like the effects of it remember it is a p.p. ester so once you discontinue use the effects should go away within a couple of days
AnonI ran deca with tren ace and lets just say I won't be doing that again... However npp and tren ace I may give a run in the future (maybe)
Why not?
When I mixed two 19 nor I began to have headaches, high BP... So bad I had to Call in for a week
P2i2tYou did the perfect thing submitting this bro. Hopefully you get some good feedback. Low-dose therapy level npp specifically for joint pain during a cycle should be fine to mix with tren.as long as you are not doing full cycle doses of each. if you want to stick mainly with tren as your base and throw in therapy levels of npp for joints you're g2g bro. hopefully other people's chime in as well
This got me interested so I did some forum surfing trying to find people who have done it and it seems like for the most part, people were OK doing it.
A couple of the OP's put up that the prolactin issues hit right away and were almost impossible to remove. Most of these clowns didn't take caber to get it down. They used B6, Vitex and Nolva. Majority who had problems, ceased use of both nadros and by 4 weeks later, issues had subsided.
Another popular issue that comes up is deca dick. All of the posts I found said at some point they would have trouble with erections, or go limp right before ejaculation. Deca dick appears to hit harder.
So lets be honest here... if you run Deca for its benefits, you are talking what 400m-600mg? and Tren about 400-700mg depending on user right? So based on that you have 800mg-1300mg of a 19-nor in you. Which means your test your running would need to be at very least 1200mg- 1950mg. Thats a hardcore cycle that 99% of people on here are not ready for. Not to mention there is no telling what dose of caber you would need to battle the prolactin beast and what AI dose would you need for that dose of test. In addition, this would be a major shut down of the HPTA. You would need HCG on cycle, followed by a blast and a prolonged pct in my opinion.
This just smells like trouble. I think it is possible to run but would have to be someone who is very advanced and probably a trt guy so they dont need to worry about fucking up their hpta.
Blood pressure, cholesterol and cardio need to be watched closely. My guess is this is why no one does this. But it is possible. Just a lot of trial and error in my opinion
From my own experience I don't believe in the 1.5:1.0 ratio of test to 19nors. Currently I'm at a 250:600 ratio and feel great in all aspects. I think that as long as your estro is under control there's no need in anything greater than a TRT or low cycle dose of test. Keeping test low would also benefit you greatly when minimizing possible estro sides in combination with the 19nors. When estrogen is low, prolactin is irrelevant. I feel that most guys run into trouble by letting their e2 get high, then blaming it on the 19nors when their nips start trying to give a dairy cow a run for its money.
I couldn't agree with you more. High estrogen is the cause of prolactin related problems. Personally I notice no difference in gains from low test versus high test, only negative side effects. I also ran at 250:600 and had zero negative sides. These parroted cookie cutter generalizations that keep getting regurgitated around here are downright dangerous to this community, and it's refreshing to at least see a "taboo" topic like this brought up. I hope more guys chime in.
I thought it is worth talking about. All I hear is how bad it is but never the reasons why. I hope we can all learn something
I'm gonna start the cycle I listed above next week. I'll be sure to stop back in as the weeks go on and post my results, good or bad.
water,I don't recommend you run the tren and deca that high.You don't need it.Would you run 1200mg a week of tren or deca?Split those doses in half and I guarantee you will be more than satisfied.
Thanks for the reply and I have been thinking of lowering both. I don’t usually run high doses of anything and I really don't see the harm in starting at 300 and ramping up if needed. I'm trt so extended cycles aren't a problem if this one has to turn into more of an experiment. What the hell man you convinced me, I'll chop em in half.
Yeah dude,we're pretty much the same build.I got great results from TR/D(I ran npp) 300/300.I had my test higher at 300,but you know better than me about how your body responds to test.Getting big is cool and all,but for me,235lbs at 5'7" is a little more than this old body can handle! lol
Yeah I used to think I wanted to hit that body weight but once I hit 215 and I was hating life lol.
P2i2tbut what if he was running a normal tren dose and a very very light dose of NPP specifically for joint pain?literally like only 200 milligrams a week.I'd say maybe cut his tren down by 200 and throw in the npp. in a case of that low of an amount though I don't think he would need to cut his tren down at all.just make sure his caber or prami is on point.
personally I like tren over deca. I dont have a hard time adding mass, so I prefer the recomp/cut to mass adding. But I have tried npp for joint relief and in my honest opinion using peptides like BPC has been easier on me than tossing in npp. cheaper, doesnt fuck with the endocron system and wouldn't mess with prolactin.
I just dont believe the reward of low Npp with normal tren, outweighs the risk and punishment to the body. I am sure you could dial in the caber but I don't like the idea of using drugs to fix other drugs, especially outside of what we consider "standard" dosing.
Lets be real here. Someone who wants to use NPP and Tren is wanting the effects of both drugs. To get the results you have to take the necessary doses. To do that would be a huge impact on your body. Just too much risk for me.
It definitely seems possible and people have done it but I have yet to see one person say, "I did it and I loved it and there were few to no reprocussions"
All I've ever heard is it's a no no because they are both 19nors. Supposedly it's just an over load on your system and can be a huge problem with prolactin and other sides common with 19nors.
I can see that if you run large doses but what if you take a half dose of each?
I've seen some discussions on this subject over on meso. Some of the vets and bill Roberts even, if I remember correctly, advocate that using both at half dose theoretically wouldn't be any different side effects wise than using one by themselves at full dose. ..personally I would just stick to one and get the most out of that one compound. I think going hard on one would yield better than only doin. Half dose of each. But I have no experience comparing the two theories to back it.
I've always wondered the same thing.
Hopefully we can dig up some answers here
why even run it then? if you run tren or deca at 200mg (assuming a typical dose is 400-500mg), your really not going to get the effects you want. Deca would get some joint lubrication. But my assumption is that you are very advanced to be doing this, so the minimum doses arent going to get you want you want for the price your body will pay... stepping out to gnaw on some chicken and will return to discuss further!
I'm just trying to dig up info. I've always heard this but never got any reasons why. If I did mix these two it would be a low therapeutic dose of nandralone for my joint and a larger dose of tren for gains. Really I'm just interested in spreading some knowledge
Truthfully I think this concept predates an understanding of prolactin control.
Deca dick isn't an issue if prolactin is kept in check.
I don't believe this is something for just any newb to try, but you've been around long enough to have an understanding of what to watch for, and have the information on how to combat any negatives.
Both being 19 nors, wouldn't that add to competition for receptors?
I'm also not sure if you're trt or not, but I'd imagine it could create a harder shut down.
no i got ya but for me, npp/deca has always been a full dose compound... meaning unless your a power lifter, which I believe you are, then I wouldn't use deca/npp unless you plan on getting the bulking benefits from the normal dose.
I dont think the trade off of adding another 19-nor in, knowing how hard 1 19 will shut you down nevermind 2 at the same time, is just a waste of money, gear and stress on your body.
Constructively, I could see someone like you, Vike or a couple other vets doing this as a hard core bulk regiment. There is honestly no reason for anyone other than those "elite" in gear to do this. Just too hard on the body and considering there are still people on here who don't know how to pct, i wouldnt advocate it.
All for the learning, appreciate you starting the discussion