posted Fri, 07/04/2014 - 15:55
8690
OKAY IM READY FOR it
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Test E 750week
Mast E 600 week
Winny 50 ed
Don't kill me yet if I left something out will change it I have it written down I'm on my phone here's the other suggestion
Test p 40mg ed
Tren ace 50mg ed
Mast p 100mg ed
Damn my shirt is wet lol
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Actually I took a nap lol. I was up late could not sleep ate breakfast needed a recharge. I have been taken notes and I definitely herd what you said just test weights but I still taken notes.
So I take it my previous suggestion of 750mgs of test, Provi with some dbol in the begenninng is not a good cycle? It's only his 3rd cycle and he's 190lbs, you think he needs more gear then that at this point? A gram? I'm kinda intimidated to make a suggestion now since we woke up the beast lol.
Excellent suggestion you put forward......... when i said BIG test i meant the dosage should be relevant to the OP exp/amount of cycles etc....... 750 is plenty for this fella and with provi he needs nothing else imo, and just like you pointed out he needs cals not compounds at his level.
Maybe EQ if he's willing to be patient and work at it. EQ if he tolerated 600 well, he could move to 750 as a lean bulker with 750mg of test
750mg test 1-18
750mg EQ 1-16
Proviron 25mg ED
Pct starts at week 20
HCG 100iu EOD weeks 16-20
Nolva 50/40/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50
Not a bad plan, but I disagree with your hcg protocol and pct timing. Still to much test in the system to start pct two weeks post injection. And 100iu eod of hcg isn't gonna do shit if you hAvent been using it all cycle. Even when using it on cycle 250-500iu e3d is needed to prevent atrophy, but with this protocol your starting it 4 months later. At this point you need some pretty significant doses to reverse the shrinkage and wake up the boys. The 10 day protocol 1000iu eod starting 14 days before pct will be necessary. I've done it before, started hcg half way through my cycle and had to use 750iu eod for a week or so before backing down to 250iu twice a week. And I started it 8 weeks into the cycle not 16. But I still think the plan we laid out is best for the op 750mgs of test ew with 50mg proviron ed plus a mass amount of food.That's all he needs at this point no eq.
I like the EQ because it's lean hard gains and if he has trouble eating, he won't now lol that's my reasoning.
I was doing the math in my head afterwards and was thinking about 2.5-3weeks after last shot unless he does a prop taper.
The HCG I've heard do many conflicting stories as to what can/should be run but I see your a 1000 iu 10 day guy
Yaa I just have experience doing something kinda similar to what you suggested. I started my hcg like mid cycle and it takes a lot more to get them up and going again. The on cycle low dose hcg protocol only works if you start it in the very begrnning. If you wait it takes a significAnt amount to get them back online. Someone out there I think it's doctor scally over on one of the other sites has a formula of how much you need to use based the amount of time you have been on cycle without it. Personally I like to use it from the start at 500iu twice a week but I've done it ll diffent ways. The blast at the end is probably the most cost effective and also practical. The only reason i use it on cycle is cosmetic reasons. I don't like girls asking why they can fit both of my balls in there mouth. But I guess in theory on cycle is good cause it keeps your lydeg cells and testes kinda functioning. Defintely good to do on longer cycles and when using 19-Nors.
AnonHow many cycles?
Two cycles CD I know I'm a hard learner
AnonThis will be your third?
Yes
Have you used those separately in the past?
Also stats and goals brudda.
Hey brudda my stats are in profile.
Here it is
27 190 5'9 goals lean mass b4 I did last cycle was 205
Cool. Between the two suggested cycles, test tren mast will give you more lean mass. But there's also better ideas too. Test/tren/mast is a stressful stack for your body. Ever tried npp? Test/npp/provi combined with a lean bulk diet can yield awesome results in the way of lean mass without stressing yourself and your body out with heavy hitters like tren.
X2. Loved my test npp run. Definitely gonna do it again sometime. And Provi would be a great addition to help keep bloat down as well as all the other great benefits of it . Should be a more comfortable run then tren and it should add more size assuming your diet and training are dialed in.
But what is your cycle history. If you haven't ran atleast a few cycles then I would hold off on the 19-Nors.
To be honest two cycles nitti and other members when I fist ask about it for my second cycle they told me relax wait chill out respect it believe me I do now have to have a good mental state to be on it. I'm not proud that I didn't listen but by nature I ant lie I like to try things out
Myself. My diet is on point its just a matter of discipline had a customized diet made up for me sometime back its perfect
I would forget the npp, tren, mast or any of that shit bro. ITs not necessary. you can't build a crazy physique naturally, now add some test into the mix and you can take it to another level. If you wanna do a nice bulker, then i would do 500-750mgs of test, with a dbol kickstart. And the provi. Its gonna be a little wet but if your diet really is on point you can add a ton of fucking muscle with that cycle. Everyone feels the need to experiment and try new things, its very tempting. But if you start using this harder shit now what are you gonna do down the road when gains don't come as easy from those compounds? 4g cycles, hell no. Max out all your gains you can on test, which i doubt will ever happen. then and only then add another compound. When you start fucking with 19-nors they have a host of there own problems, increasing prolactin levels which means you have to take a dopamine agnoist, thyroid suppression which is counter productive to our goals and will make you feel like total shit if you are indeed one who has this side effect, and i do, blood work showed it. And obviously your estrogen problems, so you need to dial in your estro, prolactin, and thyroid. Do you understand how hard thats gonna be and if any of them are out of wack your gonna feel like total fucking shit. If your estro is high your gonna bloat bad, possible gyno, high bp, low sex drive, soft dick, emotional disaster, if its low then painful joints, depression, low sex drive, soft dick, if your prolactins high then your dicks not gonna work, if you thyroid is suppressed then your gonna feel tired, gain fat easier, depression, hairloss, and a host of others. And for what? a few extra pounds of muscle maybe. Fuck that, just run some test and dbol. you'll feel like a god, only have to keep your estro under control and you won't be putting 8 fucking drugs in your body. Take it from someone who's got experience with both cycles. Ill be focusing on diet and reaching my goals with just some test and a little dbol and i believe 90% don't need anything else.
I might be prone to gyno I think or maybe its my mind didn't want all the water weight but I hear you so don't use the mast either that helped a lot last cycle
If your prone to gyno then either use a low dose ai or keep it on hand. Mast is good for when your extremely lean, its a great drug for conditioning, but you need to be lean for it to really be worth the cost. And it also works pretty decent as an AI. So idk man, I just don't see it being worth the money, I would personally just do test dbol provi. But if your truly gyno prone idk if provi will be enough. It might be but I'm just 100% sure. But in my experience when I start showing signs of gyno I can start my ai right away, and the symptoms will subside in a day or 2. And plus, since you won't be using 19-nors you could always add nolva right away and that will prevent the gyno from progressing any further. Its not hard to catch it early enough, you'd have to be an idiot to not notice the early signs of gyno. It might be in your head tho, i have the same problem sometimes. Just know what to look for.
But like i said, if your really are gyno prone and its not in your head and ai would probably be the smart thing to do.
I felt I needed to say this I'm listen and taking your advice don't want you to think I'm not. I think my e2 might be high now I sound like I'm talking to my wife lol. As are as in my mind at times I popped aromas in to much bcuz in my mind it was gyno it was bcuz I shaved cut myself and forgot point is mast had help a lot that's the only reason I used it and if you check my pics my body fat is not high even now and I'm two months off cycle
Well if you really wanna use the mast, someone else is gonna have to advise you on it. Im just not that familiar with the compound to recommend doses and shit for ai purposes. But provi mast will definitely be a good combo for keeping estro in check. Im not sure if i would suggest using an ai if you decided to go that route, you'd probably tank your estro. But have stuff on hand. At all times i have two brands of letro, and 2 brands of aromsin on hand just in case i need it, and just incase ones bunk. The last thing you wanna do is run into a problem and have to wait for an order as we all know that can get fucked up sometimes.
Hey are watching me lol you hit right on the button had one the didn't work had to wait I thought it was all over told my wife we both need bras now lol jkn used provi until my letro arrived this time I'm trying to get everything ahead of time I'm not just agree bcuz a lot of smart members said it pct important and its true
Mast is not sufficient as an ai. Nor is provi. Nor is mast/provi. Still want to include an a.i. on a cycle like that especially if tren is involved. Could probably get away with a lower dose a.i. but nevertheless one WILL be needed especially running anything over 400mg test.
I will venture to say that half of this post is correct, Mast nor provi is sufficient as an AI, while they may have some ability to supress estrogen its not anything i have found worthy of compensating an AI.I always keep adex on hand. but I dont run any caber/prami and maybe a couple weeks out of a cycle ill hit some estro sides with adex. i have also ran 3 19nors at one time, although the 3rd (MENT) was only ran for about a month.
Thanks. I made the tren part of my comment bold because in my recent experience with tren, as soon as I added it to the equation estro sides came outta nowhere literally overnight, woke up with a sore nip and a couple zits. And as far as I've always been aware, tren and test fight for the same receptors and tren being the dickhead big bro punches test in the nuts and leaves it floating around waiting to be munched on by aromatase. So in being a "cover all your bases" kind of guy, I wouldn't want to suggest no ai to someone like that. I agree with the DA's too, not 100% necessary so long as estro is kept in line. But I have them all on hand.
tren doesnt aromatise!
I know. I said test floating around to aromatize.
LMFAO!
Are you taking the piss?................. 400mg hahahaha.............. Brother you need some extra years experience before you pop out statements like that!................. do you want to know the last time i ever used a specific AI like adex or aro.... ANSWER....... NEVER!!
I have run 4Gs of test in the past with a mast/mest combo and never had any issues whatsoever...... AND i have run over 2Gs of tren (long/short) without caber........ Guess what?.... zero problems.
I am sick too fuck with this "ONE SIZE FITS ALL" Approach around here....... its time you boys opened your fkn eyes and got down to some real self -experimentation instead of simply parroting cookie cutter bollocks all over the fkn board.
DO you know 100% how much of a specific compound YOU can handle in a certain scenario!..... answer is NO because at 25yrs old you simply have not had enough years of use to fully know yet....... we have vets on here who have never run Ai in their lives who i suppose will jump into this thread if they see it..... hopefully you youngsters may learn something today.
I will be showing you guys some real steroid use from now on.......... so buckle the fuck up its not gonna be nice.... and if you think you youngsters can follow my lead! think twice because things i will bring will fkn annihilate your bank accounts..... real steroid use consumes huge amounts of cash.... PREPARE!!
I +1'd you for kicking me in the dick when I needed it.
Forget it bro were cool
You probably realise now my passion level is off the charts!.... its just who i am
I was wondering what thread awoke the Giant! Now I know. Bird, Three of us did the Mast, Test, Provi no AI protocol. ages 40 (bf15-16%), 50 (22%) and 52 (12-13%). I was the only one that ended up having to use an AI (40). Viking is right, until you know your own body and what the different compounds do to you you really don't know.
Yep, I agree. 1000%. My comment was bullshit. I'm kicking myself for it still. Momentary lapse in judgement and puked up some lame crap that should've never made it to print. Gotta live with it now. A good ol fashioned raping by Viking tends to stick with ya for a while. Bet you won't see anything else but my usual good stuff (within my bounds) from here on.
I know how that goes. I have been "talked to" before as well. One good thing about Viking tho is he always give you plenty opportunity to redeem yourself.
I get what you're saying and I apologize for the blanket statement, but at the same time brother you're lightyears ahead of the vast majority here, in knowledge and experience equally. Whereas my knowledge outweighs my experience by quite a lot. I don't think it would be fair to compare what you do or have done to the mere mortals that inhabit eroids on a daily basis. You're honestly on a completely different AAS level than most of us will EVER be. For example, in every post I've ever seen you commenting in, I've never once seen you say "I just learned something new". It's just a completely different world that you operate in bro.
And bro, what are average test levels in 4g of test lol? Like fucking 30000ng/dl
So basically your giving me the green light to tell people how fuckinf unnecessary ai are especially on simple cycleslike 500-750mgs of test, which I've kinda already been doin lately. Sounds like a plan, I'm was getting really sick of conforming to this forums over advising of ais.
I,m giving nobody green lights for nothing bro......... i stand by my words because i am no fkn sheep! i prefer to be the wolf because i believe in my own testings and experiments over the last 30+ years..... i expect NO ONE to back me up or follow my words unless they have solid self-experience and proven time over results with whatever topic we are debating.
I must be very careful here due to eroids NOT being a Bodybuilding forum...... my background is Ultra-Hardcore and i must keep a lid on it at most times, but i do get pissed off when someone writes in block capitals like above that something does not work when i and other hardcore brothers know full well it DOES.
Ya I understand, me and blrd are basically the same age, and the whole ai thing is like our generation "norm". I've done it both ways, and I grow a hell of a lot faster with no ai so you won't catch using one but like I said it's like generally accepted standards for the new school. And also ai is specified to the forum your on. On one forum according to the members it's absolute "necessary" to have one, while on the next it's only used on as needed basis. But like you said there's no one size fits all.
So let me ask you one final question, when these guys post there first cycle proposals, can I suggest Provi, or not using one at all, assuming it fits the situation? I mean I didn't use one on my first cycle and I fucking blew up and only dropped 5lbs of water during pct. personally I think there totally short changing thereswlves gains wise using an ai on simple ass cycles.
And I'm waiting patiently well not really patiently. for whenever you wanna drop some old school knowledge on us. I been dying to knkw kinda shit the real hardcore guys like you use. I knkw you eat over 7000 cals a day, but I wanna knkw what kinda protocols turn that all into muscle. Causes even with my fast metabolism I would get fat as shit eating that much despite the fact that I bust my fucking ass in the gym everyday.
Of course bro you can advise anything you want! if you can back up your words thats even better...... for instance i once had an argument in a thread about deca being a sloppy wet bulker and making you look like a water barrel! lol..... i totally disagreed because at that time i was actually on a big deca run and posted up a piccie to prove how dry i was staying...... many people thought i was on tren/mast due to the dryness, zero gyno lumps, and still very aesthetic and lean........... thats what we mean about working outside the box and proving visually what we can acheive from something which is not classed as the "norm"........ i skip through the cycle logs pages and piss myself at the fkn tomfoolery that goes on in there some days lol
As you know, I tried out your protocol about a year ago, said goodbye to AIs and never felt better.
No nut Huggins can I get in on that protocol knowledge? Not on open forum but on pm, not copying off of Viking but I have experience with certain compounds. Can somebody grace me with some tips please?
Excellent bro............ and you have a lot of exp but still managed to fine tune and make yourself feel a lot better by not crashing estro and losing its highly anabolic effects........... i have guys phoning and texting saying its the best thing they tried in decades, everybody feels better and gains have taken a new lease in life for these guys.............. folks talk a lot about the "Hardgainer" thing!...... the real problem is "Hardheads" and closed minds that hold most folk back........... look at Catalyst below he is no dummy and is just like the rest of the guys i roll with or teach.. MASSIVE!!...... if i attempted to talk shit these guys would hang me out to fkn dry brother!... i cannot afford to talk shit my internet reputation has in real life is mega important to me.
Bird - It's not an AI but did you know Viking and I both run big quantities of test with mast and provi without an AI on a regular basis? I'm not going into doses in the open forum here, but I'm talking about "behind closed doors test doses" if you catch my drift.
Not suggesting everyone would get away with it, and considering the op considers himself gyno prone not suggesting it's appropriate here, but I've taken a fair few guys through this and yet to have a disaster. There's a cookie cutter approach here nowadays, just showing you what's outside of that box.
Actually yeah I've seen the group here before and always been curious as to exactly what kind of dosing it takes to be a effective ai. I know its great for gyno prevention and treatmeant seeing as its a breast cancer drug. But I never would have dosed it as my ai. Lets talk in pm.
Both you and Iron should read my forum about it, must be around a year old now before your time here. If I showed you what I've been running for comp prep, (again no doses but you would probably have your jaws on the floor), prop / tren / mast no AI no caber, most importantly NO PROBLEMS.
There's a mentality of taking stuff you might need to take "just because". Think outside the box a little, try it. If it goes wrong. Bin it and pct, regroup, start again. You learn from mistakes more than the ones you win.
Let me know if you want me to dig a link out for that post and I'll do it later on.
Id love to read it if you can find it. And no ai in contest prep?? how do you stay dry? Letro and diuretics at the very end?
The end doesn't matter now - operating table on Wednesday instead!
Here's the link:
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/gyno-experiment-p...
I remember reading that a long time ago. I creeped through all of your posts and read just about everything one day a while back. Always interested me to try it.
If you know your body well enough to spot estro issues early on, go for it. What's the worst that can happen, a cycle that goes to shit? I've cocked up enough, but I learn from them. That's not a "wasted cycle" IMO.
I suppose it's just I've never been fully interested enough to try it simply because the way I've done my cycles WITH ai's have always been great cycles. Does sound cool though. I can actually incorporate this idea into my next run. I have everything I need to do it.