In Need of Veteran help
The order of progression/ Timeline
Forgive me about timeline its all approximate
- Started drugs at age 13 (weed and booze)
- By 16 addicted to pills
- by 19 heroin
- 21 got clean(bout 3 yrs ago) Jumped from 210-280
Joined eroids july 2012 by now im hitting gym 4-5 days a week, training is good but diet is still SHIT
16-18 months (about) ago i did 5 weeks of test P. started with bunk ai, got good ai, and ran out of test and did a pct(peptides)
didnt read vikings precycle check list and paid the price
worked out before that and since then
by now ive lost about 30 lbs and weighed about 250
started with a great diet and training with a coach
Got serious about maybe cycling again....reasons being
- libido was shit! am only good for about one orgasm around mid day FORGET ABOUT 2 in a row or even in a day IM 24!!
- Energy was shit getting out of bed was a drag but going to the gym even more of a drag but i did it and some days were easier than others
so i said let me see where im at and get bloods
1. https://www.eroids.com/pics/pre-cycle-labs-need-help-with-some-of-these-... (NOV 19th 2013)
Test 318
was told to pct and pct fast and NOW lol
Ran an "aggressive pct"
Aromasin frontload 25/25/12.5/12.5 then 6.25 daily
Clomid Frontload 200/200/150/150 (4 days then run) 150/150/100/100/100/50 6 weeks
Nolva 20mg-30mg ED
NO HCG wanted to but could not get a hold of any
2. https://www.eroids.com/pics/blood-testlittle-confused-can-someone-advise (Jan 20th 2014)
Test 800+
was told TOO SOON wait 6-8 weeks and re test when you've reached homeostasis
3. http://www.eroids.com/pics/newest-blood-tests (Mar 11 2014)
Just got these ^^^ results today and and fucking bummed, my test levels are lower than when i started? before pct WTF?
Test 206
Stats today after 4-5 months on a diet and training regimen from my trainer
5'10
225 (down from starting at 250) but have seen alot of change in mirror more so than scale
I am in need of some serious guidence and advice.
I was hoping on starting a cycle this week if these bloods werent so dissapointing
1-4 test P 100 eod
1-12 test E 500wk
please feel free to ask anything at all.
alot of the advice and knowledge ive gained were via pm, today after these results i wanted to bring it to the light and seek help from vets....and hopefully stop some other young guys from making my same mistakes
Is TRT my future? i did not want it nor wish for it and is the last thing i wanted(not excited either like i see some of the young guys so willing to jab and pin for the rest of thier life)
Only TRT/HRT docs ive heard of (from friends) are 40 and over, one is know of is 30+
Do docs accept ppl my age?
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Biologic1I just looked at your recent labs. Your Alanine transaminase function (ALT) was a touch high, so you may want to avoid orals. However, hard training will elevate liver functions but just keep an eye out. For such a young guy your Hematocrit also needs watching. The easy solution to lowering HEM is to donate blood. Unfortunately your history of drug us disqualifies you. Stay away from EQ and A drol.
LH, FSH are fairly low. Any knowledgeable doc will look at these numbers as strong evidence that you need to be on TRT.
I need to also look at your triglycerides, any lab results?
PM me, and I could refer you to one of the top 5 trt docs in he country. He has hundreds of publications, is a faculty member of a very famous university. You are probably too far away to see him, but his office should be able to refer you to someone who is local, and good.
Biologic1The short answer: Yes. The important number is not age (although men younger than 25 face extra risk, a topic to involved to get into here) but your T score. I always advise younger men to do a full pct, like you did, and then wait a month or so. You ran enough SERMS to restore an elephant's endocrine system so unfortunately, you look to need TRT. You may want to try one more Clomid run. 800 T is very good, If you could get above 600 on one 50mg tab a day, you could stay there for a while. In any case, what happened to you is very common for most men in heir 40s-50s. It indeed sucks for you, but lets make the best of it.
If what you want is health, vigor, increased libido, then you do not need large amounts of gear. My recommendation is to run 3-400 mgs/week of long acting estered test for 12 weeks. Run a full pct (use HCG this time) and stay on a low dosed Clomid/Tamox regimen until you have a full 2 months off test, then rinse repeat. I did not look at your labs, but assuming you are healthy, train consistently (weights and cardio) and eat a good diet, you could safely stick with this regimen for many, many years.
I don't know what part of the country you are in, but see someone who is a recognized authority. Besides endos' many urologists are knowledgeable. There is absolutely no reason for you to live with a total T of 206.
Hey Bro, theres no minimum age for TRT docs to help you. Like everybody else is saying get to a decent Endo. My Family Dr sent me to a urologist who just looked stuff up on his phone! You need someone who knows what to test and how to analyze the results. Then test some more to see what your system responds to. Don't give up on your Testicles, your gonna be together a long time. It may not even be testicle related, could be related to HPTA not signaling for them to produce? Which is why when you did the heavy PCT the boys went to work and did increase your test levels. Ask for an Endo, and do some research on the ones they recommend. Good Luck!
if you got the money get in touch with an endo as stated. Dont try to cycle anytime soon.
Thumbs up bro for the approach.
Very smart with the labs.
Brother, I think your best bet is to really look around and find a good endocrinologist. Be up front with everything, and see if he can help you out.
I think there are things you can do to boost the natty levels As far as workout and diet and that's a good ace to start while you are doc. Shopping, but yeah bro at 24 those numbers are pretty rough.
There are good docs out there you just have to find the right one. Ask around. Ask other docs, and be persistent. At your age I think it would be smart to not eat from the table of bro science or even from the table of mediocre doctor science but to actually find a doc that knows his shit and can treat you.
Unfortunately they are few and far between. But they are still there.
man i felt like shit when my t levels dropped to 540 from 680 a year prior.my libido sucks ass at 540... fucking shitty im no doc but id say keep trying with diet and exercise and maybe get your sleep looked at t levels in the 200s for a 24 yr old are whacked. im 32 at 540 last time i checked nearly a year back now but have never juiced at all yet. i doubt 5 weeks of test would shut you down for that long after... i think any good doctor would agree that you need some help. regardless of your age. good luck brother
My sleep isn't much of an issue, guy stated below about sleep apnea, my girl said I breath fine while I sleep, I sleep on stomach or side, never back and hardly never snore unless I'm sick, maybe a little if I roll over in my sleep onto back
5-10mg of melatonin and I'm out 10hrs if I wanted to, but without it I get 7-8 hrs no problem
BillLumberghMaybe see a doc and get complete hormone panel/lipids. test vitamin d, DHT, estrogens, prolactin etc. See if anything else is out of whack and low and address there. I'm a few years older than you. I wouldn't jump on TRT at all. Or at least spending a full year exhausting all possible options.. That's just me. Having kids is important to me too.
Did you feel better during your aggressive PCT? How the ol balls?
For libido, I fuckin love tongkat ali. Also I have an old blood test on this shit, my t levels were up around 900ng/dl and my dht was like 5 times the upper range. Maybe its because I was 20..
Any good doctor should want to help you out. Show them the bloods, fuck I'd come clean with them. If they can't accept that or don't want to look greater in depth at what the cause is then fuck em.. You don't want some cookie cutter jackass anti-aging doc putting you on trt because your levels are low, without considering the real implications of committing to a medical therapy that lasts 60 years..
You say your diet is shit. Mine isn't great either but I eat my fruits, veggies, nuts and coconut oil. Processed foods aren't great for hormones.
Vit C, Vit D, Vit E, EPA/DHA Zinc. acetyl-l-carnitine. all either linked to improving sperm quality, male fertility, or improving testosterone levels.
You're getting bloods and going about this the right way. Keep a positive attitude you'll figure it out. Good luck.
My diet WAS shit, I have since got a personalized one with a trainer and have had the weight loss staying nice and consistent( slow but steady)
Libido is hit or miss which is why it took me a little to relize it, like I said most daysbout mid day (3pmish) I'm ready to rock and nothing can stop me, but other days and most other times I'm useless, can get a boner sure but orgasm...forget it
During pct I felt better, than I do now, I guess it makes sense
Your right I'd rather not commit to a 60 year therapy, kids NOW are not in my plan but again I'm 24, who knows what I want in 10 years when I'm more stable....if it was up to girl it's be now lol but in the future prob yes
I have never researched much trt, never needed to(only what I've read my scanning posts and stuff) and it's reprocusions is sperm count a BIG issue?
BillLumberghcheck prolactin. you said you had trouble with having more than 1.. really sounds like out of whack prolactin to me..
yep. Any cycle that shuts down endogenous test production will drastically decrease sperm production/health. I think many can come back from that with clomid/hcg though/
Just a thought. You're a big dude and could be a cannidate for sleep apnea, which can wreck havoc on your testosterone levels if you have apnea and it's Deminishing your REM sleep. Just wanted you to be aware of this.
Forget about cycling right now or self diagnosing. You are young and way to early to throw in the towel. Yeah you have made some mistakes. Who hasn't. I've seen a lot worse. Also, great job getting those bloods done. Smart! Also, I can tell you are serious about getting help and doing it the right way.
It's really time to go doc shopping. We shop for everything else right so why wouldn't we shop for a doc? You need to find a knowledgeable doc that is willing to work with you. You are in your prime and should not be feeling the way you are. With the right doctor you should be able to feel like a normal 24 year old should.
I think that's your best and smartest option instead of throwing additional compounds into your body hoping for a fix. Sure we can throw out ideas to try but we are only guessing.
RustyhookerGiven all the info and you tried to reboot and then the last test. If you xan I'd hit an endo and start your trt. Some drugs have been linked to shutdown of testis. I'd skip cycle to get trt Doc and get leveled before a cycle. Lookup levelup on here. Pm him to review this forum as well.
lol was the 1st thing i did was pm Viking, levelup, pob, ifit, and some others.....any vet i could think of!
only docs ive seen or heard of are 40 plus, do the see guys my age?
RustyhookerYessir. Might take some effort on your part but yes. There's several young guys on this forum with natural hypogonadism on trt first then cycled. And then there's the guys that hit the party life and H shut em down. I feel your frustration bro.