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Denser
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+ 28 The Proviron Experiment

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This post is the offspring of an intriguing question posted by engineereddisaster (http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/running-proviron-throug...). It's intended to be a compendium consisting of Ed's previous post and my responses including my experiment updates.

This post intends to answer or at least add to the knowledge base on this subject. Here are some of the questions:
~ Is Proviron recommended as an addition to PCT?
~ How does Proviron affect the normal recovery of a typical PCT regimen?
~ What is the recommended dosing and protocol for both on cycle and PCT?

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EDIT: Monday, 25NOV2013:

Being that this is a compendium, I'd like to gather data from those who have actual experience using Proviron. This will be extremely valuable to the eroids community. So, if you've run Proviron in the past, or currently running it either on cycle or especially as an adjunct to your PCT or TRT, please either send me a FR and a subsequent PM, or post as much pertinent detail as possible below. Thanks in advance!

This is a great post by Nitty that sheds light on a counter argument against using Proviron in PCT:
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/proviron-for-b...
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Here are my responses to Ed's original post (see link in line one):

Very good question ED. I can't tell you about running it (Proviron) in PCT. I will tell you that initially when starting my last cycle (I'm currently in week 3 of PCT) that I started my cycle with only Proviron for 3 days just to check its effectiveness before adding the injectables. Prior to this cycle, I hadn't run a cycle in 20 years. I'm 50. The effect of Proviron was that my testicles enlarged during those first three days. My libido went noticeably higher and my overall mood improved in just those three days.

Personally, I've done a lot of research on this also, and my opinion is that it's okay to run it during PCT. The article by P: http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/proviron...sho...
says not to run through PCT, although he didn't offer his reason(s). Also, I've read on a highly rated source's site, that it is good to run through PCT. So, I agree that there's conflicting information.

This post has me re-thinking - again, so thanks for bringing up this question. And as stated, I'm in week 3 of PCT - 17 days in to be exact. Without going into the specifics of how PCT is going, I will say now, that I plan to do an experiment starting tonight. As Viking often says to push the limits and experiment a little, I'm willing to try it. I initially ran it alone at 25mg for the first three days of my recent cycle, and ran it as high as 75mg - 25mg split every 8 hours on cycle. Some days I would only remember to get in 25mg or 50mg, but those days were few.

My experiment starting tonight (November 15, 2013):
- take one 25mg tablet ed
- run this for three days along with my normal PCT protocol consisting of:
starting day 14 after last injection: one time shot of 100mcg triptorelin, then day 15 start of somewhat typical PCT: Clomid @ 100/100/50/50, and Raloxifene 60/60/30/30
- day 4 (from now) depending on my results, increase Proviron to 50mg split 25mg 2x daily.

My cycle was: 12 weeks - 150mg test e, 300 tren e, and 200 mast e, and Proviron as stated above, and for the last 4 weeks I ran a 1mg ed of a preworkout blend consisting of TNE 50mg/ml, Methandrostenolone 25mg/ml, Oxymetholone 50mg/ml, 4 Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone 25mg/ml, Methyltrienolone 750mcg/ml, with 1g prami every 5 days and 25g aromasin ed - I know this seems like a lot of Aro, but my doc prescribed it, and I tolerate it well with no sides and it worked very well)

I'll report my results here (or create a new post including this one upon your approval ED) as often as I can. This will be no less than eod. I'm a big fan of Proviron because of my three day experiment pre-cycle. So, I'm excited to see how it will effect my remaining PCT.

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Update:
Today: Sunday, 17NOV2013 - Day 19 of PCT

I've taken 25mg Proviron for two consecutive days now. First dose was day 17 (Friday, 15NOV13) before bed along with my normal PCT: (now at) 12.5 Aromasin, 50mg Clomid, 30 mg Raloxifene.

Results: PCT has felt progressively better for the past week. Initially, I had some mood swings, bad acne, low libido and performance issues during the first week. I noticed my symptoms subsided going into week 2 and have gotten noticeably better with each passing day. Going back to the day before I started PCT, I took a 100mcg shot of Triptorelin and noticed an almost immediate increase in size in my testes and within 20 minutes I experienced a solid erection for no particular reason except that I was just lying on my back taking a nap in the afternoon.

I had bloodwork done October 3 - results are here: http://www.eroids.com/pics/estrogen-was-3875-on-oct.-3-2013-labs-august-...

In my opinion, the estradiol number from this lab work was erroneous. I've seen a lot of these false estradiol numbers from guys who've done a 19-not cycle. It seems to be a particular problem with Lab Corp. specifically. I had bloodwork done again at exactly my 2 week mark after my last injection (see cycle above).
I don't have the actual report, but I received a text from my doc: Only thing back so far: LH and FSH are not suppressed. Normal: LH is 5.4, FSH is 4.1, Estradiol is 22.2, range is 7.6 - 42.6. So it it was clearly a false estradiol number from the Oct. 3 bloodwork.

Today, I feel like I did when I was 25 - performance wise. Much higher sensitivity and came fairly quickly - less than 10 minutes. My testicles are noticeably larger than prior to the triptorelin shot. I only wish I would have actually measured them somehow, at various stages of the cycle and currently. Calipers perhaps?

It's difficult to say at this point if Proviron is exclusively responsible for the better performance since I was feeling progressively better anyway. But I do notice an overall better feeling in all areas most notably performance. In fact it's been a huge improvement . I have a bloodwork appointment scheduled for November 27. This will be approximately 12 hours after my last administration of PCT including Proviron. As I previously stated, I'll be updating here every other day, and most likely will start a new thread including Ed's original post and all my results for this experiment.

... 'till then, bro fist!
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Update: Saturday, 23NOV2013

I apologize for not updating all week. I had a family matter that required my attention through the entire week.

Regarding the experiment, so far, so good. I've actually stayed at the 25mg instead of increasing to 50mg. I feel great, almost as though I'm on cycle again. I was getting a little smooth - my vascularity was moderately diminishing: bicep and forearm veins not as prominent. One forearm vein in particular, I use as a benchmark. It wraps from just below the top of my forearm where it meets my upper arm and runs up and around along the medial head of my tricep. This vein disappeared. Now it's back.

The big question with this experiment is: what is the individual effect of the Proviron? It's really impossible to quantify due to the other variables occurring in PCT. My natty test is likely recovering through PCT and determining the difference from adding Proviron is highly unlikely. One positive note for the use of Proviron is that it absolutely has not hurt my recovery. I'm scheduled for final bloodwork for this cycle on 27NOV13 which will be approximately twelve hours after my last PCT plus Proviron dose. This bloodwork should be very interesting.

I'll be starting a new thread with most of the above from Ed and myself. I've obtained Ed's approval to do so and plan to have it up by the end of this weekend. It will be ongoing until my bloodwork of 27NOV13.

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UPDATE: Monday, 25NOV2013, 3 AM

Nothing new to report. I haven't noticed any difference in either positive or negative sides. Still feeling as I stated in my last update.

One very good point made by Ed is that I should wait until all PCT substances and the Proviron have exited my system prior to getting the final bloodwork done which was originally scheduled for Nov. 27, 2013. So I've postponed my final bloodwork appointment until next week at some point. I'll update with the date and results as they become available.

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UPDATE: Wednesday, 27NOV2013 04:15 AM

Final day of PCT with taking 25mg Proviron. Nothing new to report. I've been feeling very good, no mood swings or other negative estro sides. No negative nor positive sides except that since I have no negative sides, that in itself is positive. Again, the only way to tell what's really happening within my systems is to get my final bloodwork for this PCT. I've rescheduled for next Tuesday afternoon - 03DEC2013. The next several days may give some indication since I'll no longer be taking any PCT items nor Proviron. I'll report if I feel any different if this should happen.

Update @ 8 PM

I don't know what's going on, but I've had random erections all day. Maybe it's my sleep patterns, or maybe it's that plus the PCT and Proviron. I haven't had a day like this in a while. Not since I was on cycle. And I'm pissed off that my GF is menstruating right now. She says, "Can't it wait until Friday?" I tell her it's fine, I like the blood, and besides I may not be this 'ready' on Friday. And she tells me that it will extend her period for three more days like it did last month. It's tough to argue with her on this. So my strategy is to pamper her so much that she can no longer resist :-D
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The bottom line here is that the optimal way to truly accumulate data and advance the knowledge base is to run a more controlled experiment where various test subjects of various ages, who've run various cycles of various lengths are monitored very closely for compliance and bloodwork at multiple stages both during cycle and PCT. Otherwise we're simply guessing based on how we feel. And to me this is not a good gauge for answering the intended questions of this post as listed above.

In the mean time, 27NOV2013 was my last day of PCT with Proviron and as I said, I'll continue to update with results - most importantly, results of my bloodwork of which I will include links to all my bloodwork as it relates to this cycle and PCT, including pre-cycle and post-cycle.

A special thanks to Ed for creating the spark for this post and experiment.

Stay tuned...

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UPDATE: Saturday, 24JUN2016 9PM

All apologies for the long delay in this update. I've had many high-priority, pressing family matters which have kept me away from this community and site.

In conclusion of this personal Proviron experiment:
1.) I believe that Proviron is one of the best AAS available regarding benefit vs. risk (adverse sides).

2.) I DO NOT believe (*for me personally) that continuing Proviron through PCT is a good idea.

  • Clarification on #2 above: I want to stress that some substances affect everyone differently to a varying degree. For example, some people do not respond to morphine. I know this because I am one of those people. Proviron was fantastic while I was on cycle. I cannot say whether Proviron is of any benefit during PCT and for me I don't believe it was helpful because it actually continues the cycle.

NOTES:
1.) I'm gyno proned and believe that Proviron actually helped surpress it during my cycle yet exacerbated my gyno post cycle.

2.) I do not believe in PCT any longer. I think PCT creates a radical imbalance to the HPTA despite what it's objective. Of course PCT vs. blasting and cruising vs. no PCT whatsoever is a subject too extensive for this thread.

Again, this is my opinion based on my personal experiences regarding Proviron and its use through PCT.

Denser's picture

That would be beneficial mostly for yourself. And if you share your results, we'd all benefit.

Nitti's picture

I love the concept! Great idea! I'm curious to see the result.

Denser's picture

Thanks NTT. Just expanding the knowledge base.

Nitti's picture

Beware of estrogen rebound. It's very real and hits hard and fast. I know from experience that Provi will make you more susceptible to this than you are not using it.

Denser's picture

So you're not an advocate of running it in PCT because you've experienced estro rebound while using it in PCT vs. no estro rebound while not using it in PCT?

This makes me less confident that my final bloods will come back with promising numbers. And again, this may be very individually subjective. In other words, we may see a wide spectrum of results which are based on each individual's reaction to its use. Some may show that it works well to accelerate recovery/block estro, some may be unaffected, and some may experience negative results as you with estro rebound.

This makes me even more curious as to what my final bloods will show.

Nitti's picture

No I do not advocate it for pct. I will share a link to a post I made about my experience with it. In a nutshell, I got nasty gyno for the first time in 8 years running AAS. I had never gotten it before and I ran a lot with NO AI or anti-prolactin. Provi binds to SHBG and also lowers it. That allows your body to free up more testosterone and also less conversion to estrogen. I could never wrap my head around what made provi act like a test amplifier. Now I understand better. It isn't an AI even though on some level it acts like one. I experienced estrogen rebound when I stopped using provi and wasn't running an AI (foolish to begin with). But none the less, It isn't something I would personally use during pct. It's still an AAS compound and has the ability to keep you suppressed. As you said, each of us is different so who knows how you will respond. Don't take what i'm saying and run. Just take notes and pay attention to your own observations. It is a quality experiment. I'm paying attention.

http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/proviron-for-b...

Read through the thread if possible

Denser's picture

This is high quality feedback bro. +3

I'm adding the link to my post.

This is plenty of good reading material. Thanks.

Chidoman's picture

Thanks for keeping Us updated with "The Experiment"!....Loved proviron while on cycle, and I'm just curious to see what kind of benefits we can gather while on PCT.

juice55's picture

This is why I love this site awesome read thank you +1

Denser's picture

You're quite welcome. And thank YOU brother.

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

NOW THIS IS WHAT EROIDS IS ALL ABOUT!........................ BOOOOOOOOM .... +3.

Denser's picture

Immense thanks Mad Man!

HllwdBdBoy's picture

THIS is wayyyy better than the "what music do you listen to at the gym" bullshit LMFAO!

+3

Denser's picture

I hear you bro regarding gym music. The piped in stuff is barely tolerable in most gyms. So headphones and/or ear buds are a nice luxury.

But he was just comparing the difference in value. Some, such as myself prefer more practical information as opposed to entertainment.

Denser's picture

Immense thanks to the heavy hitters!

ShreddedCheddar's picture

Great post, Bro! +2 and faved.

Denser's picture

Immense thanks Shredder!

whitechocolate's picture

+1 looking forward to seeing the results with proviron incorporated. .

Denser's picture

Thanks brother. Is that an M203 grenade launcher I see? Hoorah!

Catalyst's picture

Good post Denser, +2

Denser's picture

Immense thanks sir!

Denser's picture

Thank you brother. Just below, Bigrigger is about tot use it for his TRT cruise in an attempt to eliminate the need for adex. That would be a huge benefit along with the already outstanding benefits. Do you run any other estro controls on your off cycle?

bigrigger's picture

Great post D. I love proviron and am going to run it with my TRT dose of test e 250 per wk. On cycle I ran it at 50 per day along with masteron as my ai, worked great. I will run it at 25 per day with my TRT and see if I can't get away with not running any adex. It seems like proviron is making a big comeback in the AAS world!

Denser's picture

Regarding the proviron comeback, yes, it seems to be. Maybe you could keep us updated while running it in TRT. If it helps you avoid using adex, then that would be significant.