+ 65 How to control prolactin
Alright here is a post by me, I thought might be a helpful read in this pct/ancillary section.
I will be talking about prolactin, what drugs/steroids affect prolactin levels, it's side effects, and how to control it. Okay as we all know, steroids like deca/NPP and tren are known to raise prolactin levels when ran with other steroids such as testosterone. These steroids: deca and tren, are from the 19-nor testosterone family and are recognized by the body as a progestin. Progestins have the ability to increase prolactin levels.
Now there are a few things other than nandrolone or trenbolone that can raise prolactin, I will briefly mention them here; Testosterone, now I don't want to freak people out. The possibility of prolactin problems from testosterone are VERY slim and unlikely I just wanted to mention it. Another is Peptides. Various growth hormone releasing peptides can increase prolactin levels such as GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin, and a few others. Other drugs known to increase prolactin would be certain types of antidepressants. Also I don't want to get into details but thyroid hormone levels also play a role in regulating prolactin.
Symptoms of High Prolactin
- low libido
- anorgasmia (delayed ejaculation)
- erectile dysfunction
- puffy or sensitive nipples
- discharge from nipples
- fatigue/lethargy
- depression
- suppressed testosterone production
Prolactin also can cause prostate problems in men. But one of the biggest problems prolactin is responsible for is increased suppression of testosterone. High levels of prolactin cause LH and FSH levels to lower, making pct very difficult or even unsuccessful.
So in addition to running an AI like Arimidex or Aromasin to take care of estrogen, we must also run ancillaries to take care of prolactin. Our most common choices are Cabergoline, Bromocriptine, and Pramipexole. Typically Cabergoline is recommended since it is easy to dose and must only be taken once or 2x a week. I will give a brief introduction of each option and their dosing protocol.
Pramipexole Pramipexole also known as mirapex, is a dopamine agonist similar to Cabergoline. It raises dopamine levels which lowers prolactin levels. Pramipexole is actually more effective in terms of prolactin supression. Prami is also low cost. Prami has many benefits in addition to prolactin suppression. Prami has been shown to increase GH levels by up to 300% (in normal healthy men)for 2 hours after dosing. Prami is also safe to use long term. Unlike Caber which can cause Cardiac and noncardiac fibrotic reactions.
Dosing:
The most important thing to know about Prami is you NEED to SLOWLY increase your dose. As slow as possible means more gradual change and less side effects. If done correctly you can have a very small amount of side effects or none at all.
Starting dose is typically 0.25mg, but if possible try half of this dose. So first few days do 0.125mg, after that if you have little to no bad sides, increase to 0.25mg.
For prolactin supression, 0.25mg ed is usually plenty, but you can go all the way up to 0.5mg if necessary.
Another thing is Prami is usually taken right at night about 1 hour before bedtime. This is because it can cause lethargy, which isn't a problem while you are sleeping. To get the GH benefits, you need to dose higher in the 1-2 mg range.
Cabergoline Cabergoline also known as dostinex or caber, is another dopamine agonist. It has a very long half life, so it can be taken once or twice a week. Unfortunately Caber can be expensive, but if you have the funds or if you get a good deal on it than it's worth it. Caber is also known to have low side effects in MOST people. (note caber is not stable in liquid form)
Dosing:
For your average cycle including test and about 400mg of deca, 0.25mg two times per week is usually enough to keep prolactin under control. If that is not enough you can bump up to three times per week or even 0.5mg two times per week. You really have to find what works for you but start low and adjust if necessary.
Give caber about 2-3 weeks to kick in before deciding the dosage needs to be changed.
Bromocriptine Bromocriptine also known as Parlodel or Bromo, is another dopamine agonist. I have not personally used this myself, but I will say that Bromo is another viable option to help reduce prolactin.
Bromo is known to be a little harsh on side effects, but some people tolerate it well. It is a little harder to find, but if you do bromo is very affordable.
Dosing:
Bromo dosages range from 1.25 to 15mg. It has a short half life so must be taken 2 or 3x a day.
For prolactin control You can start at 2.5mg per day by splitting one 2.5mg tablet and taken twice a day. If that is not enough bump up to 2.5mg twice per day.
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No mate, my Prolactin issues come from a Pituitary Adenoma, it´s an old tumour aswell, only found out about it because I went for blood tests as I wanted to gage my hormonal "pool", and presto.
I´m glad I am pro-active about my Health otherwise I would of never found out about it.
Going for blood work this week.
TropicanaJuiceThat's good brother! Bloodwork is the only real way
bigKountryThanks man+1
Awesome post J I have prami and wasn't sure the proper dose I've always used caber throughout cycle
im strtng my first 19-nor cycle (deca) in another couple months, and decided on rolling the dice with prami rather than goin with caber. this post has been really helpful, i also like how you responded to everyones questions that posted in the thread. +1 from me my man, i got some additional questions for ya but ima pm you with em
juicemafiaVery nice post +1 & <3
AnonDam fuxkin awsome everything i read about these products u got it all in one spot awsome man
From my experience, yes prami is good for GH but caber and bromo are much more potent in prolactin control.. u have to run high doses of prami, atleast 1 mg a day to keep up w/ caber or bromo. good post mate
thanks for your input power lifter, it's always good to hear people with lots of experience
Nice read. I like prami myself. It gives me a nice sense of wellbeing and more energy. The energy obviously isn't at night when I take it but throughout the day.it does take a couple weeks to get these benefits though and at a higher dose, 1mg for me
Great post and a subject I'm currently researching so I have a question or two. This cycle; my first in 5 years,. I'm taking
Test-E: 250mg 2x a week
Deca: 150mg 2x a week
Tbol: 40mg daily
I've been running this for 2 weeks and am starting Adex next week. While I'm not having any symptoms of prolactin, I'm wondering if I should start Caber, proactively or is this something I should wait to use, when symptoms show? Also, is it advantageous to run toward the end of cycle, to help jumpstart PCT?
Thanks for any advice on this. I'm a minimalist on what I take; not looking to return to the beasty build of my youth. If prolactin issues are highly likely with my dosages and dosing caber will prevent its onset, I would likely do so. If unlikely, but possible, I'll just keep it on hand
As long as you stay on adex you should be ok. You can take 0.25 caber once a week to be safe, but yea you can hold off. I'd start taking it regularly the last 6 or 8 weeks of your cycle than continue until pct is done. Prolactin will shut your testosterone production down at the pituitary so caber during pct is pretty important.
Great, thank you! So many different views that it's hard to know which to follow, sometimes. I knew about it helping with testosterone shut down and thought it might help with that, going into pct and your confirmation makes that decision for me. Really didn't want to take it with the Adex, if it wasn't needed on cycle and not doing so should make it more effective, post
On to the next thing to research! A decade ago, I would have never discovered 90% of what I've learned in the 6 months before I got back in. It was all word of mouth, rumor and doubt so we cycled 12 weeks, took a month off, the end! Looking to make some much better, healthier gains this time around
LaTTTimer99Clutch post man. +1
have a couple question i ran tren before got no sides beside sore nips never ran an ai or caber or anything like that my libido was actually higher than normal pct was fine recovered good now im reading about all this crasy sides 19 nor has and i'm wondering should i run caber anyway even if i do good with tren or wil aromasin do the job ???? help please
keep using aromasin, and have the caber on hand. If any issues pop up start the caber.
thanks for the article, will be ordering prami today for my tri-tren.
Hey how long does take for the prami need to start to get me sexual benefits thanks
Well I can't say for sure because it could be different for everyone. It is also dose dependent.
For me I noticed by the beginning of the 2nd week my prolactin sides were gone and my libido was good again.
Im on my fifth day of prami and last night I took .37mg liquid, I dont feel any sides except sleepiness would it be okay to increase to .50 mg for my fifth day ? or would this be detrimental to the gradual process. I just want to make sure im taking enough for myself.
You can if you want, but I think it would be wise to stay at your current dosage and allow your brain time to get accustomed to the effects of prami. Keep in mind this is a powerful dopamine agonist. Prami is reviving old dopamine receptors which will result in an increase of dopamine. It takes time but trust me it will kick in soon.
So I'd stay at that dose for a couple days then if no sides increase to 0.5
make sure if you are using a liquid suspension to shake well before each use
Thanks alot bro Im sticking to your suggestion!
Bro thanks for this post +1
I started tren over a week ago and been upping my aromasin dose, but nipples are still puffy and have a weird prickly feeling if I rub them, it's annoying as shit. Also I squeezed my nip as hard as I could and little dots of liquid appeared at the tip, very small and u could barely see it but i still did see it, and this was only once I tried it a few more times and nothing appeared. I must be real prone to prolactin which is BS lol. So I ordered prami earlier today from the top peptide/pct source where I got my aromasin from, was gonna go caber but wanted something quick so just got prami. Maybe ill get caber down the line but I think ill do fine with prami. Once again thanks for the post man
Yea I'm sensitive to prolactin as well.
But yea you are most likely going to need to try both caber and prami. Some people get bad sides with caber, some people get sides from prami.
It really comes down to your personal chemistry and preference. Both are great options though
ahh im so ready to run a nandrolone/test cycle
just got dostinex brand caber to be safe bout it
Brand name is the way to go
So im doing 100 test prop+75 npp eod for 10 weeks+tbol 40 or 50 mgs ed for 5 or 6 weeks. Caber @ .25 e3d throughout the ten weeks? Great informative read though.
You can probably get by at 0.25 once a week at 262mg NPP/wk but yea twice a week is fine.
I would run throughout and even during pct if possible.
Good read, thumbs up (since my + doesn't actually count yet)
the issues with caber - that was based off of long term use right? Am I correct in saying there's a far less chance of issues if used for a short period time - say 4 Weeks ?
I believe the caber issues were from higher dose, and longer term use, but some had issues with regular dose.
Honestly they are extremely rare sides, and low dose for 4-8 weeks should be fine.
AnonThanks dude.. Ill be needing some caber soon this helped alot! Altho.. U said it takes a few weeks for it to kick in would u recommend kickstart a week or two before running say.. Tren ace or npp !?
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkI wouldn't worry. Caber will reduce prolactin pretty quickly. Start around same time as tren
Couple of questions. If you have even a layman's answer it'll probably be helpful.
You mentioned the potential sides of Prami if you don't start with a low dose. What kind of sides?
You mentioned that Caber can have some bad sides like Cardiac and noncardiac fibrotic reactions. Can you elaborate on this?
if someone on TRT suspects he may have some prolactin issues, possibly even before the TRT, would you think that a low dose of one of these, added to his protocol would be safe?
Sure, sides with Prami could be lethargy, nausea, insomnia, headache, and getting lightheaded. They are pretty minor, but the nausea can be troublesome to sensitive individuals. But like I said this only happens in the beginning, so low dose until your body gets used to it is the best way to avoid these side effects. They do go away after a while. Some don't even get these sides.
Yes caber has caused rare but permanent dangerous long term side effects in some people such as heart valve problems and nerve damage. One guy developed carpel tunnel from caber and had permanent numbness and damage in his hands.
read this - http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/pramipexole-b....
(if link doesn't work go to my profile and go to forums posted by me and you will see the post "Pramipexole- better than Cabergoline")
its the post I made a while ago and read the comments by people talking about caber's dangerous side effects.
here's another study about caber and heart valve damage.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18703568
if you are on trt and suspect you have prolactin issues, your best bet would be to get some blood tests done to confirm this. If there is a prolactin problem, then yes a low prami dose or bromo could be beneficial. Caber for trt is going to be too expensive anyways. But you better make sure SHBG, estrogen, and thyroid are all in normal levels too if you are having a prolactin problem.
will a blood test look at SHBG? More of this is bad, correct?
looks like Prami is the way to go.
I was considering trying some, at a low dose for a little while. To see if I noticed anything.
also, what makes you say that Caber is so expensive? From what I've found, it's less expensive or equal to Prami when you consider Caber is 2x/wk and Prami is ed.
Caber in liquid form is garbage. It loses potency and goes bad very quickly. Pill form caber is much more expensive.
sent you a FR
I like this one!
very good addition to this site thanks bro +1
Good Post, just what I was looking for. Much appreciated.
great read... +1
This post helped a lot thanks
I think vitamin b-12 can help reduce prolactin too
hmm I might have to research more about b-12
good read, would be a great sticky
Thanks bro!
What about the lenght of these cycles?
You can take these during all cycle and PCT.
AnonVery good read! This should be a sticky!
Bookmarked
Nice!!!