ONTHEGRID88's picture
ONTHEGRID88
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+ 2 A word of warning for TRT patients regarding subQ injections.

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My dear fellow Eroidians, lend me your ears...

I started TRT a little over 4 weeks ago. I currently administer HGH and HCG (HCG was in the past) and am extremely comfortable with subQ injections. Apparently in Canada and other countries, subQ testosterone injections are gaining popularity. There are several published medical journals (PubMed) that demonstrate efficacy and it is touted as the "cutting edge" in TRT. It is now considered the "Gold Standard" by many HRT clinics and doctors. Sounds good on paper, but I digress...

In theory, it is supposed to provide the following benefits over conventional IM injections:

  1. Less aromatization and therefore less need for an AI due to less spikes from the body's biofeedback.
  2. Supposedly less pain.
  3. More stable blood levels due to more frequent and smaller dose injections administered throughout the week.
  4. Avoidance of scar tissue from years of intramuscular injections.
  5. Greater convenience over IM injections given the smaller gauge needle used for a subQ injection.

I've been injecting Pfizer Test Cyp subQ for around 4 weeks with no issues and also no benefit to speak of. Though testosterone cypionate is a long ester, I figured that I should notice "something". Long story short, my last subQ injection did not go as well as the previous ones. I developed a lump. Normally, the testosterone Depo would leave a lump of oil that would be gone in a day or two. This one however, did not go away. I still have it. As the subcutaneous tissue only has small capillaries and thus less bloodflow than a muscle, absorption rates can vary wildly and the uptake of the medicine is somewhat a "hit or miss" proposition. The Depo can also cause irritation to the tissue and subsequently be recognized by the body as a foreign substance and attacked by the body's immune system. I now have what is referred to as a sterile subcutaneous abscess. The dermatologist I saw stated that medications suspended in oil should never be injected subcutaneously and should always be an IM injection. I was sold on subQ injections based on the medical literature and the video by Dr. John Crisler of the AllThingsMale clinic. Here is a link to the video. (BTW, I do use the "search" feature and realize this has been somewhat covered in other posts.) No haters!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98LOFQwUGA

I am schedule to have the abscess lanced and drained next Monday. I was told that the procedure is not really painful and that I could expect a full recovery and minimal (if any) scarring.

I have now made the switch to IM injections and have actually found that they are no more painful and possibly even less so than subQ injections. I followed the protocol by Dr. Runels and experienced zero pain from my first IM injection. I couldn't believe how pain free it was. The only "pain" I experience per se was a feeling akin to a mild punch to the thigh the following day. Two day later, I have no pain at all; keeping in mind that this is on a virgin muscle. I will NEVER do a subQ injection of testosterone again. My subQ technique was flawless and very sterile each time. It is like playing russian roulette with a syringe. Here is a link to Dr. Runels technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQor40vf7lE

I write this post in earnest and in hope that someone else does not fall prey to this "new line of thinking". You will read medical journals and see posts in various forums online of men swearing how awesome subQ T injections are. Don't believe the hype! If I can prevent even one of you from experiencing the same trauma that subQ injections caused me, the time spent writing this post was very much worth it to me.

Keep fighting the good fight my brothers and sisters!

ONTHEGRID88

akcable's picture

Sorry to hear about your abcess. I am also new to trt at age 45. I have been using test c. and HCG for approximately the last 4 months. SQ e3d. That's 4 shots a week. 16 shots/month. 54 shots since I started. NO ISSUES so far. I pin using insulin syringe and my test is compounded in oil. I wash my hands 15 secs and wipe my sink area prior to injecting. I swab my vials BEFORE and AFTER each use prior to storage. I use alcohol swabs on my stomach till clean prior to injection.
Thanks for the heads up.

Hunk Chunk's picture

Hi On the Grid,

Thanks for your post, which kept me from doing just that, switching to subQ injections of Test Ethenate. I had heard about the better spread of it, but feel that unless one can find it in powder form or reconstituted in biostatic water, the oil base will keep it from being too quickly dispersed anyways. I would one day like to find some which isn't in oil, but don't know if it is possible. Especially as mine is doctor prescribed, therefore it would help if it was pharma grade...

Thanks also to others here for suggesting pinning in other muscles. So far I have only pinned it in my posterior cheek, and find it hard to aim and hold in the pin at an angle behind my body during the entire time of injection: it wobbles about and I have to do it single-handed, What's your favorite spot to IM pin your test?

Hunk Chunk

Loyd's picture

Thanks for sharing. There has been a lot of debate going around on the benefits of SubQ over IM and this definitely sheds some light on the negative aspects. I have always been a firm believe of IM injections, even with GH. Glad everything worked out for you. Like you said, we live and learn.

ONTHEGRID88's picture

Yessir! I still shoot HGH subQ. Never had an issue.

Sens55's picture

my dic was trying to convince me to switch to subq. his spiel sounds like a carbon copy of the doc you've cited. I still had a supply of 23 ga for im I was going to use before trying it. now I think I'll skip it. thanks for sharing

Lordajax's picture

I'm using slin pins to do shallow IM injections, it's working beyond great for me. Never tried subq, and won't after reading this. Good post.

ONTHEGRID88's picture

Thanks Lordajax. Just be sure to inject into the muscle and don't withdraw the pin until all of the meds have been injected.

Lordajax's picture

Sure thing. If you haven't tried IM with slins, I highly recommend it. Way less scar tissue and haven't hit a vein this way yet

TrueLife44's picture

I have been out of the game for a long while so I don't know what new gear is like but I had issues getting it in with 23ga. You can get oil through a slin? Are they using a thinner oil now?

As for the SubQ WTF?? Injecting oil in the fat cells. That totally kills my knowledge of how AS is distributed throughout the body via IM injections...I think you would really have to know your source and what he uses in his gear or you in for some serious issues?

WOW things have changed..:/

Lordajax's picture

As far as getting it thru the needle into the muscle, it isn't that hard to push in, takes 15 seconds to push 0.5 cc in. I backload the slin pin with a 25g pin.

TrueLife44's picture

Yea I see how your doing it...I use to run allot of tren (bc I enjoyed making it) but it was always pretty thick depending on how I made it and what oil...and the older original gear wasn't the thinnest either...this new gear is a new world to me so I may give it a try...I was a pin cushion for a few years and scar tissue does seem to build up...I'm really interested in this...thanks for the info bro....True

ONTHEGRID88's picture

Yeah, 25g definitely goes faster than the ole 27g. I don't mind though as I don't even feel the injection. I also like to stretch the muscle and do some squats and walking afterward to improve dispersion of the oil. Pain free injects and nil PIP into a virgin muscle. That's what I'm talkin' bout'. xD

ONTHEGRID88's picture

SubQ injections are the latest craze in HRT/TRT. Fortunately for me, my sterile subQ abscess has almost completely resolved on its own. I was scheduled to have it lanced and drained today but cancelled my appointment as the condition is vastly improved. I have no issues getting Test through a 27g though it does take more pressure and time. My injects usually take several minutes. I don't mind the wait as I take a great deal of care in maintaining sterility and I enjoy the whole process. If I don't feel like waiting as long, I use a 25g 1" to pin in the quad. Also, if one was using dirty gear, it doesn't matter whether it is injected subQ or IM, you are going to have serious problems with an infection or an abscess. I only use Pfizer Test Cypionate and UGL Test by two of the top rated sources here. I'm very happy with both of them and will continue to send donations. Their gear is top notch as is their service.

BTW, FR was accepted. ;-) I'm more than happy to share my sources if you are interested.

TrueLife44's picture

By the way WTF is the deal with that Doctor in the video...the comments below are crazy...this dude is in jail or something? He is a certified Dr. in the US and administering like this? So is this something that AAS users started or Doctors?

IDK just doesn't sound right to me but like you bro I would try anything if I really thought it would get me more gains..I'm glad you tried it 1st ;))) j/k

Hunk Chunk's picture

Hi True LIfe,

Yeah, he's a bona-fide doctor practicing in Alabama. He started out as a hormone replacement doctor. He gave a couple of buddies of mine shots in their dingers supposedly to help sculpt them, but no results for two grand each... he calls it the Priapus shot.

He is well-known for having "borrowed" from a Russian researcher (aka "invented") the Vampire facelift which is all the craze among Hollywood stars. Yeah, he's kinda new age too.

Cheers,

Hunk Chunk

TrueLife44's picture

I like the part about you enjoy the whole process...lol...I use to be obsessed with home brewing and perfecting it..seeing it load up and the inject use to give me a rush bu now I have just done to many shots...I am dreading it...last time i did any I swear my shoulder had so much scar tissue the shit wouldn't get absorbed easily and often ran out..lol..like trying to inject a rock...so I may try this.

So your abscess was from the SubQ? This is just going to take some reprogramming for me to understand how ti works. Maybe that sounds stupid as i know you SubQ HGH and others but I never thought I would hear this.

I remember when guys wee swallowing it, sub-lingual and other techniques but I always stayed true to the muscle theory.

Well I have some thinking to do...and research..:)

Thank you for sharing bro..let us know how that turns out...those can be really dangerous, as I am sure you know, so keep an eye on it..or maybe both eyes?..;)....True

mhman's picture

Interesting....Thanks for the info 88

ONTHEGRID88's picture

Trying to help where I can bro.

gsleepy's picture

Absolutely no haters! This is an important post in my mind as the Sub Q injection phenomenon is still making it's rounds. +1

In a promo × 1
ONTHEGRID88's picture

Thanks chief! Yeah, all the latest craze is just plain crazy! It's still very popular and being a noob, I succumbed to the arrogance that is "cutting edge". LOL

TrueLife44's picture

LMAO...let me correct you my new friend..:)...its called the "bleeding edge" lol Seriously in my world (I.T. programing & technology) cutting edge means the latest technology but bleeding edge are things like "beta"versions of things like software. Another words you are the tester to tell the developer what is wrong. The Ginny pig if you will...and in this case bleeding edge fits nice with abscess ..;) LMAO...j/k my friend

Your a hell of a guy for testing that for us..;) lol Seriously though glad you shared bc we all know allot of people would be trying this until something like this happened and its awesome you came out and shared. Thats what I am after on this board and what its all about....you test..I learn..ha..ok last j/k I promise....True

ONTHEGRID88's picture

Was informed that it's a walk in the park mate! Local anesthetic, lanced, drained and on my way. Still, I wouldn't want any of my brothers/sisters making the same mistake I made. It's all about sharing and caring my man. I use a 27g 1.25" pin and don't feel a dang thang!

ONTHEGRID88's picture

Exactly bro; live and learn. I excel at the learning part, it's the living part that proves difficult. Testosterone to the rescue!