tread-m's picture
tread-m
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+ 13 HARD SHUT DOWN

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real quickly wanted to address the "hard shut down" term that is used so frequently. I just saw someone advising another that deca is a "hard shutdown". See that quite often and I also see many people who had a horrible experience with deca and say "never again". So I will quickly adress the topic and in fact it will apply to all 19's as to this "hard shut down".
We recently saw a sries of posts related to quality wood being gone following even pct of a cycle with a 19 in the mix. People always think "wow, that was a ard shutdown, not runnig that again". So I'll give my take on it and anyone please feel free to agree or disagree.
I prefer to refer to it as "a different type of shutdown" so as not to confuse. To just call it a hard shutdown might lead one to think there is no recourse other than time and in doing so not even explore the possibility that maybe the shutdown was different than normal and there might be a solution. In one recent scenerio we talked to an individual who had gone through pct following a cycle with deca and even a couple weeks post pct he had poor wood quality. So in talking with him we came up with wha I assumed might help and in just 3 days of caber use the quality had returned. So he may still have some ups and downs, no pun intended, but the pioint is he very quickly began to fix an issue. The point of that was that his shutdown was different than a test shutdown. And there were more aspects of the shutdown given the deca use.
I know many of you think "caber on hand". That may actually be old school thinking because lets think about whats going on. When you use a 19 if you are like me, sex is insane first few weeks lets say on a short such as npp or Ace. If you're like myslef and many others you may begin to experience shroom sensitivity around week 4 and for some that could mean deca D*ck and for others like me that means just can't get off. Well, not unless you go tour de france and ride that bike like a wildman for a solid hr! The hour is fine unless the bike is being peddled as fast as you can peddle the enire hour to make sure you get to the finish line. So by this point in cycle and unattended to the end especially one could say, I'm in a hard shutdown. What is actually going on is yes , you are shutdown but now you have a secondary component effecting the shutdown. Now you have a prolactin stimulation occurring at the pituitary. That by itself can be an issue with sex drive so couple that with a hard shut down as you come off cycle and crash and you can see poor sex quality for weeks.
You think "I'll just rock this pct and soon enougbh as test comes back my drive comes with it. For some yes for other no.
In the grand scale of male hormone prolactin is not hugely significant in raw numbers, however, the change of that small number can still have a mega impact on the sex drive. We're not even fully sure of why and not fully sure or understanding of its total impact but it can be great.. so heres my thought on the issue of "hard shutdown". Prolactin took this minor change during the 19 and that minor change was great enough to destroy the drive. Then given the small significance as it were by compoarision to other hormone the bodies respoces through pos/neg feedback loop were so small to the issue given the small significance of prolactin that it was not prompted to necessarily e
return to "normals" real quick like. Lets say its significance is so small in the grand scheme of things that the body even gads a range in which it deems "normal" and even though you may be in that "range" you are still too high in prol?actin to spur the necessary mechanisms tol bring back the wood in proper.
Think about how even off cycle you have heard of people using caber as a sex drug to lower prolactin even lower than the norm range and create crazy wood and orgasms. Think about how this tiny change helps and then wonder, did I really have a "hard shutdown" or was I simply shutdown in a way I didn't understand?
This is sort of a way of explaining this in terms we can all understand I hope because the science behind it is much more complex than a prolactin issue when we get down to it, but, this is plenty without getting overlycomplicated to kind of understand the issue as to sex drive in the 19 run.
Its this for me, shutdown is shutdown so not only is it healthier IMO to low dose caber through a 19 ride, it is smart and helps the sex drive side effect. Anything we do to prevent sides is healthy if you think about it. We drink a lot of water, we lower salt, we do cardio, we eat right, we run an AI. All of these things to prevnt sides givn sides mean "unhealthy roll" so why would you not prevent the side of prolctin overage? You don't have to be breast feeding kittens to need caber, maybe such as I the effect to prolactin is minimal and ou have never had leaky nips but that does not mean thre was no effect. We can debate shutdown and hard shutdown all you like but I promise, if you low dose caber in your 19"s you will have a cl?eaner run and if all else such as AI and all the above is dialed in, the sex stays good the whole roll. Opinions welcome and my point here maybe is hta deca has a bad rep for many only because those many did it wrong and di not use the necessary protocols to make it good. Its like running dbol and no AI and being often bloated and miserable, why not reduce those sides with the AI and mae the dbol run better and "HEALTHIER"?. Much more to discuss with prolactin but hopefully for this topic we covered the necessary depth of it and its other effects.
Btw...fun little fact that might make you understand prolactin a bit better. Did you know that following an orgasm your body secretes proclactin. So think about after you get off how you lose that sexual drive "to peak condition at least" and lose wood quality. So now imagine you have that overage all the time...BOOM! Check youself bitchezzzz

I SHOULD ADD, CABERGOLINE CAN BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS ABUSED, USE IT PROPER THE WAY YOU PROPERLY USE ANY DRUG so you can continue to enjoy all the benefits of having a pulse. Sweet huh?

humpnpump's picture

Caber and Prami are dopamine agonist which increase dopamine reception or binding rates which is what fights the prolactin issues. Tyrosine and a eastern herb Mucuna Pruriens also increases dopamine which probably does so with a lesser effect since its natural. But someone thats sensative to Caber might give it a shot. I know nettle root extract binds to SHBG and frees up testosterone and also is an aromatase inhibitor as well, but you don't see people taking that instead of exemestane. I did use nettle root extract during a cycle and never had to use an AI but I was on a low dose test and oral cycle and may have not had any estro issues in the first place. Hard to tell. Just throwing this out there in case someone might find this useful.

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humpnpump's picture

Very nice thread tread. I will go along with your theory cause its basically how I ran my last cycle test/npp/mast. I started caber about week 5 and not becasue of any shutdown, just I was a little short fused or moody. Was already taking AI started that week 3 so it wasn't estrogen. I figured I got this caber on hand and take .5 and see what it does. Sure enough mood improved and proformance to LOL. .5 caber 2 x week was all I needed. Added bennefit from caber was I noticed a genearous increase in ball size the next few days after taking it, which is making PCT easy as well. I agree with you on taking AI and caber. You may be having physical or mental sides your not noticing and then never take AI or caber, sometimes its hard to tell if your having side effects. Just like I wouldn't have known my moodiness was prolactin related until I pop the caber and solve the problem. Same for AI this time around I never had any sides water, gyno etc. Just a little lethargic 3rd week in and took AI because I figured estrogen was draging me down. Sure enough I couldn't wait to hit the gym the rest of the cycle. So yeah sometime side are so mild you may not know you have them, why not just cover the bases with AI and caber right off the bat or somewhere during your cycle, couldn't hurt the cycle only enhance it.

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humpnpump's picture

Good point. But there is also fine line between healthy and unhealthy when adding substances to your body. You don't want to under treat symtoms or over treat symtoms. I try and use little as possible. As you can see from my little experiment I tried to use as little as possible for maxium bennefit. I don't think it would be a good idea to start your cycle with caber, but adding it in after a 4 or 5 weeks in shouldn't be to unhealthy. It really does give your boys a boost and helps going into PCT. I tried to use .5 once a week, but found for me .5 twice a week was the sweet spot.

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XvBeast's picture

QUESTION: Can taking caber ever cause u to become ED?

XvBeast's picture

thank u bro, caber is my new best friend

Nitti's picture

Tread man, beautiful post! Very informative and a great simplified explaination of the subject! EVERYONE should read this! Maybe it should be stickied. Or maybe tread should have his own section. Lol

Nitti's picture

Well I mean a section for Tread-m posts only but for all of us to read! The section will be called "Don't tread one me"

Engineereddisaster's picture

I think a Tread section would be bad ass!

XvBeast's picture

The girl that i had last night cant thank u enough, beasting post brother, thanks 4 helping me out. I cant beleive i beat this thing. Yesterday i was at a meeting and i got an untimely boner , yo i wasnt even embarrassed, everyone saw it, u think i give a fuck, im proud baby, whoo lets go

everclese's picture

nice post... I have found I get hard shutdown from fat chicks? lol. no matter how much they blow me or tickle my ass nothin... My solution, and I have had deca dick while running caber w/ it. Currently I am on deca and as long as I think the chick is smokin attractive i get blue vein throbbers. So I guess what I am saying is as long as I am all oh my god I have to bang that chick no prob for me while on deca, but if I am just tryin to get laid and not that into it u kno jus goin thru the motions that is when I personally have a prob on deca. Not on deca and I can always perform like a stallion no matter if she's fat or ugly or what... My experience those chicks go the extra mile to please someone like me and that's fun too? I am 3/4 crazy tho have dr.'s notes to prove it.

everclese's picture

yeah, that was me lieing, I am all the way, but quit telling people u prick or I'll quit ticklin ur ass w/ a feather, and I kno how much u giggle. Smile

Carlos Danger's picture

So I'm a weird case Tread. I get the limp noodle from Deca on any dose over 300-350. But I can run the shit out of Tren. I've never been able to make any sense of it. I even run a lower dose of Test on my Tren runs. Deca= Caber for me yet I have no issues on Tren. Any ideas?

Nitti's picture

This is me as well! A short 6 week run with NPP and no caber put on some gains but killed my sex drive. This was back when
I didn't think I neededto run any AI or anti-prolactins. I had poor quality wood and just didn't feel that desire. While running tren with the same test dose I have absolutely zero issues related to prolactin sides! Nobody has ever been able to explain this to me. I guess some things are meant to stay a mystery. Well I could attempt this again and monitor my bloods extremely closely throughout. That may paint a better picture of what's going on and why I react differently to 2 different 19's. I know the NPP was good because my bloods showed a ridiculously High progesterone (remember I never ran an AI or anti-prolactin then). I know my tren is good because ,well i made it myself.

fast48's picture

So then since it's sensible to run caber thru a 19cycle....is there a rebound effect end of cycle like adex? Suggested reason to continue low caber thru pct to alleviate woody issues?

fast48's picture

Awesome....thanks! Keeps pct straight n easy.

Engineereddisaster's picture

Excellent post bro. You should seriously write a book.

finafan's picture

Instead of helping 1 D*ck at a time Tread is going after the masses.

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

WHO YOU GONNA CALL"...Dickbusters!

bawler's picture

this is a great read!