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  • Edit Raisethebar Test E, MGT Aqua, DP Aro

  • pickle   •   Mon, Apr 1st, '19 17:38   •   48 replies, 1037 views

NOTE: Simple Mass Spectrometry is not enough to determine dosage and purity of tested substance.
Tests done with GC/MS, LC/MS/MS or HPLC methodes are considered much more reliable!

Sources: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
            

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Raisethebar Test E 100mg ED
OGs Tren A 60mg ED
DP Aro 25mg ED
DP Provi 25mg ED
MGT Aqua 3.5iu ED

Nips have been sore and swollen, thought my estro would be much higher. Upping my Caber dose to see if that helps. DP Aro is working beautifully! Thanks PM!

RTB Test E doing its job, was running another brand at about 900mg a week and got same score as RTB's at 700mg week, had only switched to RTB's 1 week prior so way to early to tell but i was dosing 100mg ED so at least some was in(needed to check estro asap so couldnt wait).

A little dissapointed in the IGF score on MGT's aqua, was expecting higher. Been at this dose for months, bloods were drawn 4 hours after morning pin. Going to work my way up to 5iu in the coming months.

Yes, lots of red on the charts, feedback appreciated. Iron deficiency has been addressed before, doc and i have known about it for a while, still working to figure out a cause.

Just had my balls snipped about 45 minutes ago so im going to go lay down and check this periodically. Thanks fellas.

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  • MegaT883's picture
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  • MegaT883
  • 8 months ago

x

  • pickle's picture
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Hey brother i didnt catch this before it was deleted. Will check with you via PM.

  • MegaT883's picture
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  • MegaT883
  • 8 months ago

UPDATE to post below BIOTIN MAY AFFECT IGF-1 test at 30mcg.(supplements are not exact)

Special Information: The supplementation of high biotin levels, exceeding the recommended daily allowance of 0.03 mg, could lead to incorrect blood test results with immunoassays that are based on biotin-streptavidin interactions. Clinicians should consider biotin interference as a source of error, when clinically suspicious of the laboratory result.
This lab uses Quest.(reads lower)
http://www.clevelandheartlab.com/tests/insulin-like-growth-factor-1/

  • pickle's picture
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Thanks MegaT. Will make sure any supplements containing Biotin are dropped before next IGF test.

  • MegaT883's picture
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  • MegaT883
  • 8 months ago

Pickle what dose does your Dr have you on with the SlowFe? Man brother you been having IDA since last yr. and it's getting worse instead of improving. Looks to me that you may have an absorption problem. How you feeling..any fatigue problems?
As far as your IGF-1 With out a base number no telling if you had an increase. Being at .6 z score means your above MEAN average. You could of been at 141 base you just dont know.
I took a look at that study and it appears it was overweight guys on high blood pressure meds.( Trying to find the complete study that gives more detail but on the road hard on a phone) Not sure if it applies to you.

As far as biotin not a high enough dose to affect the test.

Was looking at a study of 20-27 health young men and there was a big spread on IGF-1 numbers.The point I'm making is you could have a 100 point increase and not know it. There is such a variance from person to person.

Back to your IDA did your Dr ever run an Anemia blood test?

https://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tests.php?view=all&show=681&category=12&search=#681

  • pickle's picture
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1 slowfe per day, 45mg of iron (equivalent to 142mg ferrous sulfate). Colonoscopy and upper endoscopy came back normal. A bit tired at times but i suspected that was from the GH, plenty of energy when i need it, a bit foggy in the head by mid day if i dont have caffeine though.

Going back in for another round of blood work similar to the one before in about 6 weeks, if results dont improve then they want to do a capsule endoscopy.

Doc did run a test that looks very similar, here are the results.
https://www.eroids.com/pics/dhb-provi-eq-lipid-panel-iron-deficiency

  • MegaT883's picture
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I went back to you 1st bloods you posted. Hb is ok when on the sauce but your differentials tell a different story. Some times you have to take iron 2x a day. You testing shows it's not from internal bleeding. The reason your dropping while blasting is from the blood donations. Some people have a problem absorbing iron. You may want to add Vit C as it will help with absorption. Read this.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/14568-oral-iron-supplementation

  • pickle's picture
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Hey MegaT, thanks for the info once again. My doc did say i could take 2-3 slowfe per day. Going to add Vitc and a second slowfe in the afternoon.

What do you make of the T3/T4 readings?

  • MegaT883's picture
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T3 uptake does not measure thyroid function at all, but thyroid-binding protein saturation. High T3 uptake in the presence of a normal TSH level (which yours is great)is not clinically relevant.
If you want to check thyroid you would test TSH along with Free T3 and T4.

Do that and take it twice a day. Also pay attention to what hinders absorption.(In the link I sent you.)

  • Mr.Raise's picture
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  • Mr.Raise
  • 8 months ago

Thanks Mr Pickle

  • pickle's picture
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Of course Mr Raise, and thank you!

  • Dacky's picture
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  • Dacky
  • 8 months ago

Hi bro

As a huge favour to me and MegaT833 (we are conducting some research) can you please confirm with the lab the methodology/assay they used to test the IGF-1. Given I believe this is a labcorp test I’m assuming it’s not LC/MS and some immunoassay based test - probably Maglumi (ECLIA) but it would be great to have this confirmed.

Also can you please list the full supplement range you may be on including any multi-vitamins and anything containing Biotin.

My suspicion is this maybe interference from the Provi. While it is going to be impossible to prove for certain I am hoping to collect enough data points to be able to say with reasonable certainty that Provi and other DHT’s are interfering for some reason with these assays.

If you would be willing to have the test redone using LC/MS - Quest Labs - offer this test then that would be an amazing help.

Here is my post that started this all off for your reference: https://www.eroids.com/pics/puretropin-grey-tops-igf-1-results-plus-some-others

  • pickle's picture
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Hey Dacky,

Test was done through Quest, IGF was LC/MS version. I added pic that shows the exact test and what it entailed.

Items taken daily:
COQ10
Vitamin B complex
Fish Oil
SlowFe Iron
Aromasin
Provi
Raloxifene (due to recent gyno flairup)

Soulja found some interesting literature that showed Anemia patients had lower than normal IGF scores. Not sure how that relates or if it does at all to anemic patients who administer exogenous HGH. Makes me think though, the best gains i have EVER made where when i was running IGF LR3. Maybe my body has been producing abnormally low GH amounts resulting in subsequently low IGF in circulation. Would love to hear what you and MegaT have to say on that subject, anemia and igf is not something i have ever come across so my knowledge is zero. Hope this helps brother.

  • Dacky's picture
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Thanks mate. Yes the anaemia piece is new to me and I haven’t read it through yet. MegaT833 May know more. On the vitamin b complex - any biotin in there? Also see my reply below to Soulja.

Interesting the IGF-1 LR3 effect you realised. Can you PM me the brand out of interest please.

  • pickle's picture
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Good call Dacky, Super B Complex (Nature Made) has 30mcg Biotin in it. You have a better relationship with Mega T maybe a PM incase he misses this.

PM coming your way as well.

  • MegaT883's picture
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Sent you a Friend request.

  • Soulja's picture
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This test was done at Quest. I'll let Pickle explain if he chooses to do so, but we may have found the underlying cause for this particular IGF test that has nothing to do with the testing methodology or DHT's. I still believe Provi is negatively impacting these tests though. All in theory of course.

  • Dacky's picture
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Ok so done at Quest but on their LC-MS analyser or their immunoassay analyser? I saw the link you posted on anaemia/RBC issues. As I am learning with the help of MegaT833 that many of the methodologies (immunoassay or LC-MS) can be unreliability and subject to interferences and cross reactivities as well as yielding wildly variable results when compared to one another (even in controlled sample settings) that it really stating to call into question for me the whole point of IGF-1 testing. Throw into new mix a bunch of aas, ancillaries, peptides and supplements and well you’re starting to get the picture.

Hopefully MegaT833 chimes in here too.

  • Soulja's picture
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I see what you mean. The best way to test hgh seems to be to eliminate potential interference by eliminating certain compounds and supplements to get the best possible picture of what the hgh is doing uninhibited by other substances.

  • Dacky's picture
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Yes kind of. I am saying even removing all exogenous supplements including AAS, ancillaries, other meds etc. Still won’t guarabtee an accurate IGF-1 result reflective of the quality of the GH been used in all cases. There seems to be just too much variability from what I see and from what the studies show. With a low IGF-1 result in these circumstances it would be easy to conclude shit GH but they may not be the case. Really sending a sample off for independent professional testing is the only real way to tell quality, purity, dimer levels. In some respects I’m starting to feel a GH Serum test is more useful combined with visible results and obvious dose dependent side effects than IGF-1 testing.

  • pickle's picture
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GH serum test is on my list for blood work next month. I have zero doubt that the GH is potent and doing its job, Aqua has tested fantastic many many times in the past. Mine has been stored in my fridge from the moment it arrived. Hell, even when i started out on 1 iu i had terrible sides. Sides are gone now except for the good ones.

  • Dacky's picture
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Something MegaT833 sent me a while ago - http://clinchem.aaccjnls.org/content/61/7/990.full

As you can see it is possible, albeit pretty rare, for the LC-MS method to yield false low results. Not saying this is what has happened here but it is possible. And this is just what they know based on studies of people not taking the types of quantities of the drugs we are taking.

  • pickle's picture
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Correct, IGF was done on their LC-MS analyser. Other IGF tests they offer i believe do NOT use LC MS. I chose this one for that specific reason.

  • pickle's picture
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Im very very curious now based on what you showed me. In about a month im due for a clean out, trt dose, and overall reset so im thinking about dropping the GH too and getting a baseline. Curious to see what that might be. If its in the shitter naturally that would explain why i made such amazing gains running IGF LR3 in the past lol.

  • Soulja's picture
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What I took away from that is naturally low IGF 1 and IGF 2 levels could be the actual cause of anemia. I could be mistaken because medical literature might as well be written in Latin.

  • pickle's picture
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Ah so its reverse. The naturally low IGF causes the anemia not the other way around. Since my IGF has been elevated to normal range for better part of 6 months one would think my anemia would have improved, it hasnt, even while supplementing with iron. Im with ya bud, the way its written has most of the info go right over my head. Hopefully Dacky or Mega T can ELI5 for us.

  • Dacky's picture
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MegaT833 is travelling but will post up when he can. I’m going to have a read of that literature now.

  • Dacky's picture
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So study suggest that having low IGF-1 may be a contributing factor to mild IDA. I would not go so far as to say that this is the reason for the low IGF-1 score unless the baseline IGF-1 number is so low that what we are seeing is a real and marked improvement in IGF-1 levels. In this case you would think that IDA markers would have improved which as pickle says they haven’t. Given no baseline it’s impossible to say of course.

I think I read Pickle had been experiencing full blown GH sides so much so he has to lower the dose - this is consistent with my experience on the Aqua.

A GH Serum test exactly 3 hours after injection is what I’d be doing next.

  • Soulja's picture
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Or maybe it's saying that iron deficiency and low IGF coincide with one another. There's several articles about it on Google. I didn't read through all of them. I was just trying to think what would make your reading different than everyone else's. The iron deficiency was one, temp degradation was another. Then you also have the Provi, as well as Biotin. Seems like there's lots of hoops to jump through to get a proper reading. Aqua has a great track record so it's definitely something....take your pick as to what though.

  • Pounds23's picture
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  • Pounds23
  • 8 months ago

If u been pinning hgh for months at that dose every single day u should think about stopping cleaning out for at least a month or two and just run like 200mgs of test cruise on that so u clear and clean out and resensitize and in the meantime stock up on whatcha need gear wise and then jump back on the gh, cause ur gh numbers should or I at least think they should be higgher, u should think about trying seargants gh he's got a really good generic with really good igf numbers on bloods, and before u jump back on obv work on it cholesterol and get bloods done ur smart man u know what to do otherwise everything looks good