posted Wed, 08/27/2025 - 07:09
1130
+ 6 K4L Bloodwork Testosterone and Estradiol Question
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I just finished a cycle and have been cruising for the past 5 weeks. Right now I’m running 180 mg of test per week, split into two doses of 90 mg on Monday and Thursday. I’m using K4L Test E (250 mg/ml) and inject with a 31g insulin syringe that I backfill — honestly the easiest and most pain-free method I’ve ever used. This lab was drawn Monday AM before injection.
Normally, I aromatize like crazy and need at least 1 mg of Arimidex to keep things in check. But this time my estradiol is absolutely perfect, even though I’m not taking anything else besides test. Any thoughts on why that might be?
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How do you inject with a insulin syringe? I have a few buddies that do that. For I be the oil is super hard to push. And two how are you even getting in the muscle?
Yea call me old school but I’m not interested in oil + slin syringe
I use 28g 1/2 insulin pins and I don't need to backfill, the oils just draw into the pin. Into the delts and lats. I'm using 250 Test E per week at the moment.
half inch geez man how lean are you? for most people that would be a subq pin
My delts and upper quads are lean enough for 1/2 inch. I'm doing such low volume that it doesn't bother me if some doesn't get into deep muscle tissue. Maybe 11% BF?!
You take out the plunger from the back end of the syringe and "back fill" it with another syringe that has a larger guage on it. Use that larger syringe to take your oil from the vial and into the insulin syringe. I'm lean so I do quad and delt injections. It's such low volume that it makes the process so quick and easy.
I also have a 27g 5/8 in I used for my delts cause I feel that's deep enough but I bumped up to 1 in to be safe.
Yeah I get the back fill that's why I edited my comment. I use a 21 gauge to back fill all mine just so I'm not dulling the needle. I want it as sharp as possible. I use a 27g 1 in in the middle delt, 25g 1 inch in the ventrogluteal area and 23g 1.5 in the upper outer glut (butt cheak). I rotate cause they all equally suck. My buddy had me do an insulin my very first shot a year or so ago in the upper quad and I read that wasnt deep enough for a IM shot. But I get it if your super lean.
Are you comparing to when on cycle, or past cruises on the same 180mg a week? Obviously you can’t compare 600mg a week to 180. Nobody should need 1mg of arimidex on TRT. Hell if you need that on cycle then you’re cycle design is not a good fit for your body. If your estrogen is above 24 do you get e2 related sides? That’s lower than ideal imo.
Cycle was 600 test 600 primo with no AI.
Typically when I cruise, I'm on 180 test and 1 mg arimidex. I test every 60-90 days and it puts me at riggt in the middle of the reference range for estradiol. Without AI, I'm in the 80s with 0 libido. I'm usually at 30 with cruise+AI. Very low compared to usual!
1mg how often?
I was doing it weekly split into 0.5mg twice
So everything is consistent, but your e2 is low with no AI. I’d guess your BF is much lower now. People with high Bf aromatize at much higher levels.
16 is lower then I like to keep my e2. 25 bare minimum on cruise. Are you feeling good? If so i wouldn’t change anything. Not that there’s much you can do to increase estrogen without increasing your dose or adding additional aromatizing drugs which you don’t want to do.
That's correct, everything is the exact same except how my body is responding. I feel great, no low libido or joint aches like I had when I crashed my estrogen years ago. This is the most lean I've been iny life, and speaks to your process of why it's like this. I'll get retested in 30 days to see where I'm at.
Crashed estrogen sucks! I did it once years ago too. Was on cruise on like 200mg a week with 50mg of Balkan proviron and my estradiol was a 5. Best proviron ever. Now if I ever run Provi when on TRT I do 12.5-25mg a day.
Now that you’re really lean you’re primed for growth whenever you’re ready. The ratio of muscle gain to fat gain is much more favorable when bulking lean.
My man, thank you for the insight! Very excited to see what kind of muscle I put on this year. I appreciate the info
If your low bf the primo probably had you near crashed estrogen and its finally coming back up. If lean it can takena while. If you stay on the same 180mg dose your estrogen will climb a bit but probably stay in a healthy range. Get a retest in 6ish weeks. When Im crazy lean I can run test pretty high with no ai and a little mast. Primo crashes my estrogen hard if anywhere near 1:1. Id need more like 2:1 1.5:1 even while cutting. My goto these days getting older is test/mast at 1:1 with gh and does anything I need it to.
I got my bloods done every 8 weeks and it was sitting right around 18 to 24, never crashed. I crashed it once a few years back and that was by far one of the most depressive state I've ever been in - will never do that again. I believe that the leaning out part of it has contributed immensely
Is the E2 LC/MS? So, is it sensitive estradiol test or the regular ECLIA one? That can make a huge difference and the number can be very off. If you ever experienced low E2 sides, do you feel them now? How’s your mood, libido, sleep, etc?
It's a sensitive test! I have experienced very low E2 as I crashed once when I was taking letro but everything is perfect right now.
Nice levels. Like stated below, crazy to have that low of e2 with that high of test. What all did your cycle consist of that you wrapped up 5 weeks ago?
600 mg test, 600 primo
During cycle, primo was a perfect AI and I didn't need to use anything. But again, that was 5 weeks ago.
What was your e2 from the cycle? Just wondering if the primo could've lowered it down from cycle. Bc sometimes it can take awhile to bring it back up. And if it takes 5 half lives to clear, then the primo is just clearing. Regardless good test scores. Just trying to help and maybe shed some light. Considering you said that you usually aromatize heavily.
Might be a stretch, but what compounds were you using before you started your cruise.
600 mg test, 600 primo
During cycle, primo was a perfect AI and I didn't need to use anything. But again, that was 5 weeks ago.
You probably have lower body fat typically people that have excess weight on them aromatize more.
I'm 6'3" and 238 with 10% BF. I'm way leaner, lost about 6% total. I'm sure that has something to do with it, thank you
That’s crazy to have a test level like that without even a slight estrogen spike I’d take it as a win. Like perfect trt levels man
I'm usually in the 70s or 80s without AI. Idk what's going on!
I bet some of the metabolites from the primo are still floating around acting as AIs. Technically all the primo has been metabolized but I wonder if some of the AI metabolites stick around longer? I think something similar happens with deca, and keeps people suppressed way longer. According to WADA they can detect primo use up to 10 weeks. Maybe that means the metabolites that are doing some of the AI work are longer lasting.
This is what I think too. If it's been 5 weeks and we go with the 10 day half life (I see 7-10 days reported) then we're looking at 75mg of primo in the system give or take plus the metabolites. When was the blood draw, in the 4th week after adjusting down the dose?
This was taken after 37 days of being off. I'm taking another test at 65 days to verify.