+ 8 There ARE other ways
So this post was triggered by reading something yesterday which reminded me of how set in our ways we are as a forum. "This is how you run this cycle", "not like that it's wrong" etc. Someone posted up a cycle including sustanon and test cyp, (or enan, doesn't matter for this purpose). The op was immediately greeted with why? What's the point? Largely because it was different to "the norm". Be 100% clear, I'm not having a pop at those involved, far from it.
Some of the more experienced members have run cycles including this type of mixed test ester helped by the likes of Viking and myself. Some are doing it right at this moment. But it's not the normal "cookie cutter" cycle that is repeated regularly and with good reason. We're all guilty of seeing unusual stuff as incorrect, include myself in that category.
Irongame wrote an excellent article "test is not test" which is linked below. Highly relevant to the sust / cyp / enan debate.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/test-is-not-t...
Which leads me on to my next example. I train with a guy I've known for 15 years. Absolute monster of a man, switched from strong man competition to bodybuilding about 5 years ago. Scandinavian lad, lovely bloke and a physique to be in awe of. Way superior to mine, no matter how I look at it. So we talk about cycles a lot, but never in detail. For example, I said I'm bulking on test/deca/drol, no doses, length etc. I know he's been running test and tren e. The other day, I forget how it came up, but he gets more detailed. 1.5g test/wk, 500mg tren e/wk, 30mg tbol ed (for a long time).
So, and I can hear your responses already, 1) 3:1 test to tren ratio, someone will undoubtedly come out with "they fight for the same receptors blah blah" 2) Suprisingly low tren dose for a pro 3) 30mg of tbol, that won't do anything 4) "a long time on orals" - liver problems.
So it's wrong, cycle is a mess isn't it? This boy has a pro card, over 300lbs in stage condition, strongest guy I know who can bench 6 plates a side. Is it wrong? He didn't learn it from eroids, he came through a different path, learnt his trade is a remote village in Sweden, the information he had was different. Is the cycle a mess?
What I'm trying to show you is to open your eyes and ears a little more, you might find there are "other ways". I don't like what's above and I doubt I would run it, but that doesn't make it wrong. I like to see an element of pioneering, I suppose that co es from my job. It doesn't always work, I once wasted nearly 18 months on something that couldn't be made to work, but I learned a lot from trying, techniques and data that my team use now 10 years later. If it's all cookie cutter, we're closed minded to new ideas.
Embrace new ideas, even the bad ones and use them to learn and move forward.
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AnonI always see " they fight for same receptors" id like to hear people explain that, some of the people stating it more than likely have no grasp of how receptors work, where they are, and how many we have etc etc...... I learnt from old school fellas in my gym when I was younger, I still run my test 2-1 with tren and deca, infact I run my test higher than nearly all compounds except mast, which if I run it its either equal to test, or maybe a tiny bit higher depending on the goal, I read and learn everything people write, but we all have what works for us. If it works it wrks type thing good post.
I'm going to agree and disagree. To many guys with zero expercience want to jump on a cycle way out of there league. The cookie cutter cycles should be followed as stepping stones until you can grasp HOW YOU FEEL AND REACT TO COMPOUNDS.
With that we should all look out for each other. When posting a cycle out of the norm a little bit more background info is needed. Same when advising a individual running there first few cycles.
Great post.
That's a good point you raise there. Early days, simplicity is definitely the way to go. We have stickies with simple basic cycles that are easily found for new users and I'm a big fan of these. +2
I'm 23. Been training hard for 6 months. Going to jump on 750 test 500 tren a week with a dbol kicker. This is my first cycle. My trainer told me this is an excellent first cycle. I have nolva on hand. By the way what's a stickie?
Kidding (we see this way to much). This is why the big boy cycles are so hush hush. Either people are blown away by it cuz the Dont understand or the 150 lb newbie thinks that what they should take to get HUGE!! Lol
That's because if it's not the Eroids way, then you wrong & deserve to be BAN & treated as a dummy kid...
Most of the times, all it takes is one Vet/Adv to post a comment & everyone else will follow with whatever he said
PallMallI like seeing some openmindedness pop up in here these days
Well said and one of the primary reasons I don't give cycle advice in the forums. Did it a few times a while back and got slammed with a whole lot of recycled broscience. Last time I checked there weren't a lot of actual medical studies on these compounds so my knowledge is based on 20+ years of trial and error, 28 years of 7 day a week workouts and accumulating but also filtering research based on what I know not what someone else thinks they know because they read it on a forum post so it must be true.
The irony is what sustanon was designed for in the first place. Much less frequent pinning for trt.
I know what you're saying, I used that as an example of "different", not to highlight what I agree or don't agree with. You are correct, the majority was about the pinning schedule.
Cat, iron and viking...this forum wouldn't be what it is without the info that you guys put in and I must admit I'm forever learning and thankful of the input you give...
No fuckin homo...lol
RustyhookerIt's easy to get caught into "norms" because they simply work. Hardest part in this forums is most folks are here to look good nekkid. So simple and easy is exactly that. KISS. ..Keep It Simple Stupid.
The fun times are when someone has a specific route or goal. The OP is there chatting constantly so things can be broadened. Things that look complex but when laid out...still simple.
Couple of the brewers on site in the past actually produced a 5 blend sustanon type. Folks went apeshit because it was do new and fresh in the thinking. Or even recently a brewers sustanon Short mix was created that went from base thru tpp to make those eod pins different in timing.
Some of the newer oral blends I see as a fad gimmick but who knows. It doesn't hit my goals or thinking but may help someone else. Post bloods and prove your results.
So damn true. Great post. I been saying this for a while now. Just because it doesn't fit the eroids norm doesn't mean it's wrong. Wanna know my current bulker? It's all wrong I'm sure bring on the lecture on how var is a cutting drug. Test/eq/prov/var and gh. Nice dry lean gains, good strength, no bloat. All the weight that I put on is solid, and them there's the recomp effects of anavar with the gh. so on eroids this is totally wrong, I shouldn't be using var cauee it's a cutter. I should be using test deca dbol or test eq dbol/drol etc. But var a mild oral, can be ran for a long period of time and adds real lean muscle not 15lbs of water. . So I'll come off of this cycle with a new 10-12lbs is muscle and a few % less bf. maybe next time I use tbol. Who knows. I'm trying to learn for myself and not go by the book. Maybe it doesn't work that well and I know next time to not do it. But so far it's been pretty good. But I'm trying to learn for myself and experiment not go by the book. If it was. Traditional bulker I proly would use dbol/drol deca etc but this is the beginunnjng of my comp prep cycle so it's not an al out bulker. More lean bulk/recomp
I like the sound of that stack. I just finished a long run on test, npp, eq and var with some peptides that produces great results. In fact u and I discusses it prior to starting. I prefer orals like anavar as opposed to dbol and anadrol because I feel extremely uncomfortable with all the bloat and high bp that they cause me to experience. Everyone is different that is the only thing that is certain.
Ahh yes I remember talking to you about that cycle. I really like the sound of your cycle. 20-24 weeker with eq, npp the first 8-10 weeks. And when you drop the npp the eq is in full swing. Sounds like a highly productive cycle.
Any link to that cycle? I don't get it. Dropping Eq on week 8-10 of a 24 wk cycle? Was this some kind of a bulk/recomp/ cut hybrid ? What else was in the mix?
You read it wrong bro........ no sane person drops EQ at that point, what he meant was EQ was just taking effect at that stage after DROPPING NPP (short deca).
LOL...... no matter what you read or what anybody says!... there is no such thing as that
You are correct sir. Very intriguing cycle. It would definitely be a bulker. But the gods honest truth is the more "advanced" lol I get with my cycles the more I wanna go back to the basic simple cycles. To many different things to keep in check on multi compound stacks, gh etc effecting estrogen, prolactin, the 19s effect t3 levels the gh effecting t4 to t3 conversion. Lot of shit goes Into balancing these cycles. Thay why my next cycle is gonna be the one you suggested to me. Ed shots of sust. Test only. And a lot of fucking quality food. Feeling like a king he whole time and growing like a weed.
Exactly bro....... you have heard me talk a million times about " technical stacks" and "high focus or low focus stacks" ..... this is exactly what you are experiencing right now with the multi-compound juggling act in place to keep a balance of all things!... mega concentration is needed 24/7 and after a while is does get jading lol...... this is the reason why i only went technical when comp prepping, any other time like winter bulk or maintenance stacks i always kept purposely Semi-simple then my main focus was on destroying the kitchen instead of being head-fucked trying to remember a specific pin time or multi-oral injest.
I always find an easy controllable stack is best for bulking...... hit the body hard with chosen compound then think of your face as a dustbin (garbage can for US boys lol)..... and stuff as much food down your cake hole as is humanly possible (inhuman if GHRP-6 is the mix lol).
Ive been known to force feed..... spew up then pick the big bits out the spew and eat em again .... lmfao!
I have said this 10 million times but im gonna say it again for new readers...... YOU CAN CRUNCH TABLETS AND PIN GEAR UNTIL IT RUNS OUT YOUR FKN EARHOLES..... YOU CAN BRAG TO ME THAT YOU USE MORE GEAR THAN 20 IFBB PROS!!..... BUT THE SIMPLE FACT REMAINS .... IF YOU CHOSE TO EAT LIKE A FKN BIRD YOU WILL LOOK LIKE A FKN BIRD...... CHOSE TO EAT LIKE A GNARLY FKN MONSTER!..... GUESS WHAT? THATS RIGHT.... YOU WILL BECOME THAT MONSTER IN YOUR DREAMS............ FOOD IS MAGIC GUYS!!........ NOT.. STEROIDS
Now fuck off and go eat .............. lol
AND WHEN THEY LAUGH AT YOU AT WORK CAUSE HOW MUCH YOU EAT! .........
I have nothing.. I was trying to think about what you could say back, but I don't usually say anything, but ok.. And continue to eat. ...
Food is King!
Red this is for you. Only watch up to the wrestler scene. This is from a movie that was before your time but it makes the point perfectly. In the scene a bunch of kids are in detention on a Saturday and are eating lunch. Everyone pulls out some weird lunch or other but the athlete who is a wrestler pulls out a shit load of food and everyone's jaw just drops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3mupIlFIYQ
That's just a snack
lol.... i like it :))
Breakfast Club. That scene is a classic!
Thanks, Something sounded terrifically effed up about that idea! And you thinking it was a good move didn't sound right.
I didn't know if you were being sarcastic or what the hell was going on.
I used the "bulk/recomp/ cut hybrid " term because its sounded as crazy as dropping EQ at week 8 in a 24 wk cycle.
We've talked about this before. I think maybe some of it is the science "need to meddle" aspect, but I have to admit I don't see a lot of point in posting up what I run as it doesn't "fit".
Is your current bulker wrong? Are you happy with your gains? Sounds like it's right for you. Nothing else really matters as long as your safe, happy and healthy.
It's all trial and error, I had to drop the var after 5 weeks cause it just killed my appetite but during thst time I had some great recomp effects . So lesson learned. But I've enjoyed this cycle a lot. Very lean dry gains. No moon face lol. Next time I have similar goals I'll use tbol. At the end of the day the goal if this game should be to find what works best for you. And if that doesn't follow the cookie cutter eroids cycles fuck it.
I've done a couple of different things on this bulker. Reality is I'm the heaviest I've ever been, which considering I only had rotator cuff surgery 7months ago I'm surprised at. Ok a little sloppy if I'm honest but I'm closer to 290 than 280 at max 12%.
You learned from the var use though. That's what's important. You don't always get it right, I've certainly cocked up cycles.
Ya and I can't even say that it fucked up my cycle. I forced myself to eat and hit my macros and total cals everyday. I was just never ever hungry so I said fuck this. This isn't fun I'm gonna drop it to get my appetite back. Cause force feeding is not fun at all. So I could have pushed on with the var and kept forcing myself to eat but it was terrible. I don't even think I wanam run it during a cut. It's not that it makes it hard to hit 4000 cals it makes it so I'm literally never hungry. So even on a cut it would suck. Seems all orals do this to me other then dbol in doses 30mg and lowrer. Last one to try is anadrol and I hear that's notorious for killing appetite. But I've found tha it takes about 2 weeks to do this to me so the 2 on 2 off protocol with the drol might work well for me.
Var definitely also effects my appetite negatively, anadrol doesn't even in big doses. May not be the case for you, only one way to find out.
This kid came talking to me yesterday in the gym, tells me he is hitting 200mg Abombs ED lmao!...... honest bro i frightened to breath to hard near him, he looked like he was about to explode! pumped with water and all red though high BP just like a fkn ugly whale..... not long ago i would have attempted to steer him down the right road.... but now i just thinks FUCK IT!!....... there is no finesse anymore in the BB world, well not in the gyms with the street kids....... only time i see quality now is when the season starts and we do road trips to meet up with old friends and speak with ex combatants from the heady days of stage battles... im gonna miss that shit real bad.
I saw a couple of youngsters this morning who I know are full of TREN and slin struggling to bench 2 plates a side for a single rep. Why would you bother even running AAS if you can't press 100kg for a single rep unaided?
One of them asked me how I built my size. I was about to give them the good nutrition speech and changed my mind as they wouldn't listen anyway. My answer, "steroids mate, shit loads of 'em. That's what you wanted to hear right?".
Great!!!! I have a few of those in my gym....
Taking slin at 22 started training 6 month ago and says he feels tired all the time on slin...
I said mate your guna fall asleep and not wake up soon!!!
Clearly it was g2g/fyre/felt it three hours in....
It's really getting out of hand nowadays, kids in the gym whom you'd never even think were on weigh 150lbs and are running stacks and PHs like candy. I think one of the funniest things I've ever over heard in the gym was when three of these paperweights were on the bench (obviously) talking about how they take Test E sublingually...
The only people worth working out with/striking up a conversation with are the old timers who've been on/are still on...
lol.... that just reminds of a dude that was kinda bragging in front of me, telling me he was running parabolan tablets hahagha........... and another prick who bragged he had some humatrope gel pens and was pinning 1iu every sunday night..... told me this stuff is so fkn strong thats all he needed lmfaoooooooooo
LOL good to have u back brother... Enjoy reading this shit again hahaha
My PM box got hit hard last night about the mixed test protocol...... i think it may be a good idea to add irongames "test is not test" post in here to shed some more light on the subject...... i can only type with one finger so a long list of PMs is gonna take like a month to chew into lol
I'll link it in.
Talking of pm's, did you see my "noddy car"? Lol.
uuh?...... you lost me bro
I've pm'ed it to you, will make you laugh.
I like this post. We as a community do tend to become myopic in our perceptions. I have helped a few members with unconventional but safe cycles myself and have heard nothing negative as of yet.
Glad I found Cry_Havoc LOL He has opened my eyes to many things!!!! Guy is a secret cycle genius.
CH is a good guy mate. Looks at things in a scientific way as do I.
Maybe we should start a geek group? Lab coats only......
LOL I swear to god I was writing that just as you were posting it!!!! Good see you contributing brother. I have been following your comments!
I would love to join Lab Coats Only groups as long as both of you are in it.
I feel the need to always try and follow protocol when it comes to eroids on here. And get my cookie cutter out of my pocket when helping.
But if we had a group called LAB COATS ONLY would be fun to throw ideas around in!!!!!!
Dang Catalyst you smart bra.