posted Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:03
2358
-1 TestE/MasteronE/Tbol
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Hello all, looking for some opinions on a future cycle of mine.
Stats:
6'0
190lbs
8% bf percentage
22 years old
Cycle exp: Test E 1-12 600/week Tbol 6-12 50mg/day.
last cycle was over 6 months ago, I'm currently lean bulking towards a goal of 210 at 8%
upcoming cycle
Test E 500/week 1-12
Masteron E 600mg/week 1-12
tbol 1-6 at 70mg/day
Aromasin 12.5mg/day 1-12
PCT:
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Aromasin 12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 less or more if needed.
Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you.
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Not going to comment on the cycle itself other than to say that at your age if you are going to cycle at all you better be very concerned about your endogenous hormone recovery. You stated that you prefer Nolva only for serm. The general consensus around here is a two serm Pct w/ aromasin. Heres why. Nolva does stimulate Fsh and Lh but not to the level of Clomid. Nolva is used to block estrogen at local tissue to prevent gyno. Nolva also dencreases the release of IGF-1 but to what extent is not known. So if nolva does this then we need get our endo test pumping quickly since the faster this happens equals more gains kept. Clomid is the drug of choice here because it blocks estrogen at cell receptors and tricks the pituitary into secreting fsh and lh which in turn stimulates the leydig cells of the testicles and test is produced. All of this will happen relatively fast hinging on whether or not the testicles are responsive to the influx of Leutinizing hormone. Hence the use of HCG during cycle.
Anyway. Standard Pct is as follows.
NOLVA. 40/40/20/20
CLOMID. 100/100/50/50
Aromasin. Optional. 6.25ed/6.25e2d/6.25e3d
Regardless of cycle. You should really make sure Pct is solid.
cdaddy7With Zewi's results based on his bloodwork....retention and recovery...I would def not consider Aromasin to be optional anymore but a must...but to each his on but Aromasin makes ur return to gaseous.e quicker merely by allowing Clomid's job a lot easier by the estro binding....and it allows u to lower the Nolvadex dosages so that it greatly reduces the PCT depression issues...but we left it included bc of the synergism of the Nolvadex and Clomid on the LH
Yeah, aromasin is great I don't cycle without it.
where did you get that info on Clomid stimulating LH better than Nolva, everything I've seen/read says the opposite. Also why such a low dose of Aromasin isn't it on a case by case basis whether you'll need more/less.
zewiClomid causes an increase in FSH and LH secretion– leading to an increase in both sperm production and testosterone secretion. -works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.
Novadex --increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, However, if estor is not being blocked at the pituitary Nova full effect in the LH production will not help. Sure nova helps LH production in testis, but that only goes so far unless more LH is being sent from the pituitary, nova can only do so much..
Nova, and Clomid work together, one without the other is stupid that is why they are both apart of a PCT. They help each other do a better job.
cdaddy7Yes, yes, yes....
Thanks Zewi. Beat me to it.
what did your first cycle do for you? how much did you keep?
went from 170 at a true 8-9% bf to 215+ was 210 after pct, maintained 210 for another 8 weeks then I cut to where I'm at now.
Time on + pct = time off. You can keep more of the solud gains if you dont start cutting after cycle. Maybe I'm reading wrong? After cycle...food and gym changes keep those gains.
It was 8 weeks after pct before I even began cutting, I didn't use anything to cut.
Wheres your clomid youngster? The cycle is too big for 2nd....ley alone your age
Please elaborate.
Clomid. Go research it. Post correct pct. You do know what lh is? You know what clomid does?
I'm familiar with Clomid. Both Nolvadex and Clomid increase LH output by the pituitary. I perfer Nolva.
zewiX2
tbol is 6 weeks
and why test e at 750mg?? I thought you were going for a leaner look..
I would drop it to 500 maybe even 300-400mg a week. But what the fuck do i no.
Why is tbol 6 weeks, because liver toxicity or is it there's diminishing returns of some sort after 6 weeks? Please elaborate further, thanks.
Any oral should be run for approx 4-8 weeks..depending on oral..(dbol 4...var 8)...this is for average user..as I know some advanced users do much different..duration and dose...
tbol 6weeks bc its relative safe..but still liver needs to be treated with respect
Waterbloat is the new lean ;)
Notice the AI, and I was looking for constructive feedback not sarcasm.
Second cycle at your age. Like it says. You should be natty busting ass in the gym. Figuring out how to down food. Too big a cycle. Just like we both stated above. You need to research a chunk forst.. Bigger is not better.
I work hard in the gym, I know how to diet. I was looking for info not misguided opinions.
Adawnis..this is normal responses for fast and many others here..they sometimes seem to come off as big asswholes..but in reality it is simply misdirection of the commpassion they have for the younger anabolic users...they want the best for you..and sometimes they respond with sarcastic remarks..but really its bc they worry bout long term negative affects of steriod use in younger guys...take with grain of salt alright!
You seem like you spent time researching and also have experiences with prior AAS use..so you do deserve input and views and opinions...
do you have any specific questions?
I will help you research and find a conscise information for your goals...
laslty wow 45lbsI on first cycle..seems nice..but also goes to show you had massive amounts of natty potential..but took the short cut route..which is fine..I do..many do..I dont have five yrs for 30lbs..nor do many hear!..props to your gains..just remember you ultimate peak has been slighlty lowered from it....ie if you hit up AAS @ original weight of 210..you be 250..ya know...but maybe thats not your goals..I personally would nvr wanna be 250...sounds strange but my goals are different than most...I wanna stay under 200..maintain my supa low bf..which is between 6-7% verified...bc to me 190@6-7% looks better..feels better than 230@18-20%...
So any questions for an Eroids Nurse....shift starts now..lol
Give you report..jk ;)
I was low 170's at a true 8% bf after a very long cut I'm sure my muscles were glycogen depleted at the end of the first week before anything even kicked in I was already 180. that probably explains a bit.
Your pct is completely wrong...fact. Yoyr high dose wrong....fact. 6 Weeks.....fact. The error here is you did not research...then poke at any answer because its "not what uou wanna hear".
I poked at your answers with the intentions of receiving some clarity on the reasoning behind them. it seems your simply regurgitating information without any actual knowledge of it.
I know you like to help.and want the best for all of us here..but my man..think objective ..no one wants to hear wrong wrong wrong..it makes the average human go okay Ill do it anyways..which is strange but true...plz reassess how you react and apply a new strategy to correcting someone ...perhaps try...I do this..or the consensus is this way...anything but wrong wrong wrong...bc you got goodstuff to say but turn people off sometimes..just my. 2
Every youngster is gonna get ribbed time to time on here. Welcome to bodybuilding! He got stiffly ribbed because if his diet was fully on par he'd hit that 210 lean with just food. Thats proven with his first cycle. So when he spouts his food/gym is supreme....that'd the first error in growing. If uou peep every forum and cycle lig.....there's onlt a few vets that help these kids at all. Their replues is the number one reason....stunting their Max potential and lingevity is another. I agree that 190 & 8% looks better. But if his personal goal is the stage....hes gotta keep between 10-12%. Massing up is lots easier and even at 12%...the abs are just visable. Already been sponsored fully by the 2 biggest gyms on earth. Talk about getting ribbed! Holy shit...this is nothing. His other reply on pct...definitly needed hard addressing. If he don't recover not only does he lose his gains....he's gonna be trt by 30. Im friggin old and still not trt. Smart recovery and sensible cycles. You're younger so if you and op hit s common ground....train him! I dont have a problem stepping out if the goal is met.
"If my diet was on par I'd hit 210", I can't even grasp what your point is. You don't even know what my diet looks like, You don't even know what my gains are like. I never implied I wasn't making gains with my diet. I'm 190 now at 8% bodyfat off cycle Do you think that was an accident? Not everyone is trying to bulk out of there jeans or compete on stage. Oh and Apparently you think not using clomid equals TRT by age 30 since that was the one thing I chose not to use... You're ridiculous. AAS stunting max potential? Since you were throwing around huge numbers on that (260lbs) i'm assuming you mean max potential while on AAS? Explain ronnie coleman then. or better yet explain arnold who started dbol at 15, were there potentials dampened?
I have no problems with my cycle needing work, that's why I'm here. I don't have an ego issue, however when someone with what appears to be limited knowledge is arguing with me because I'm challenging his views for the sake of learning it makes this whole process a bit redundant.
Second cycle should be easy. And yes you'll bliw up big if food is big. Problem is your going big way to young which hinders your future muscle growth and longevity in recovery. Gator posted it correct...if you gained 45 first cycle that says loudly that you were nowhere near uour natty Max. That gain alone suggests that natty you'd hit 220. So you're rushing. End result is if your natty Max was 220...then hit steroids....you be up bout 260 in a few small cycles. By jumping the gun early you may now have stunted that maxx to 230. Its proven in many resources. Im drivong n dont have time to cite these facts. Id strongly suggest you get a food guru and get to at least 210....then a small/simple 500test and 50tbol((6Weeks). Bigger isnt better...it just causes your body to constantly require more. Same as beer. 6pack used to knock you in your ass. Keept hitting frat parties and ya dring a 12pk easy. All drugs have this same effect. Thats why theres proper dosing and time off.
Im done here. Clearly you fking know everything. Good luck bud. THIS IS WHY VEYS DONT WASTE THEIR TIME WITH CHILDREN!
You came into this thread looking to start an argument the minute I questioned the reasoning behind your answers. I'm not one to blindly follow advice without reason, every single suggestion in this thread I've looked into. I don't know what your issues are.
^ I agree..and the above response was directed towards Fast48..as I believe the "wrong wrong wrong" approach to answering peoples questions does nothing but hinder the progression and knowledge being spread from user to user