tesp prop/ mast prop/ anavar
I am 26 and have always been in very good shape. I am 5'9 and 190lbs very lean. My first cycle was 12 weeks of Test E 500/week and anavar for the last 8 weeks stopping before pct at week 15.
For this cycle I am going to use test prop so I know the timing of pct and some things change so I just want to get some advice.
Test prop- week 1-10, 125mg EOD
Masteron prop- week 1-10, 100mg EOD
Anavar- week 3-10, 50mg ED
HCG- 500 iu per week (how should I break this up?)
Arimidex- day 1- day of pct, arimidex .25mg EOD
PCT- 4 weeks starting after 3 days after last test/mast injection.
Clomid 75/50/50/50 Nolva 40/20/20/20
For the HCG, how should I break this up? on my first Test E cycle I did 250iu injections twice a week on the same day as the test injections starting on day 1. I dont know if I should go with the same twice a week pinning, or break it up more.
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Im actually thinking of instead switching to ED pinning now. test prop 70mg ED and Mast 55mg ED. If that should help in avoiding sides.
Thanks on the great advice guys. So what Im taking from this is that everything looks good except the var, and the adex is in question. Im going to drop the var to only 6 weeks now. As for the adex, Im just going to stay with my original plan, although I will keep cautious of sore joints, and if I feel necessary will drop to .25mg every 3rd day.
RustyhookerCareful on adex in the stack til its needed. Mast will help block and low estro is no growing. Blood test week 3 will help. Doses are nice. Var only 6 Weeks. Use liver support even though var can be mild.
With a dosage of 437mg a week of testosterone he is going to need an AI from the beginning. Drostanolone is extremely overrated and its ability to act as an AI, otherwise I think it is a great compound.
This again is just more bro science that simply doesn't work. The notion that Drostanolone can act as an AI came from old studies that explored the treatment of breast cancer with certain androgens coupled with other known compounds. The funny thing is testosterone decanoate was found to be even more effective. Don't take my word for it, read this. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1243528
Hope this helps clarify some of the confusion.
Sorry bro....... i beg to differ in a major way.....
Also.. while i am here, who are you?.... meaning which banned member are you the re-tread of ??? i seem to recognise you somehow.
You can state your disagreement as everyone is entitled to do that but that doesn't make your point of view correct. If you have some journals or publications you can point me to that will substantiate your point. I will be more than happy to educate myself and recant my previous statement.
I've never been banned on this forum. So I think you have me confused with someone else. But I will be more than happy to discuss any ideas or whatever else you'd like to discuss.
Well ain't that a crock o shit! You know your way around here far too well to be a noobie , and your syntax, sentence strucrure and demeanor are all too familiar... when it comes back to me (and it will) guess what??
I am telling you the truth. You can ban me if you want , but it will still be the truth that I was never banned here before. But I'll tell you what, if it turns out that I am telling you the truth how about an apology. Fair enough?
And also, may I ask what the problem is that you are having with me? As a moderator you can read all my posts and private messages. So what is it that you think I'm doing besides trying to be helpful?
I guess he,s gonna get H - Bombed
RustyhookerI see your back again. So here we go youngster......parroting and citing your pubmeds isn't reality. Posted bloods as well as my personal use proves the effects of mast in a cycle. Fact......dumping estro will stop all muscle growth. Fact....estro a lil higher than posted fears gives greater gains. Fact....that's why dbol, drol and creatine are so talked about. Problem is noone studies their functions in the body.
Calling somebody a youngster without knowing any facts is an assumption and we all heard the saying about assumptions. I think you're seriously confusing me with someone else.
It's not parroting when you actually understand the research and the science. It's called citing. And those research articles that you play down are what's called science and are based on reality. Propagating bro-science that is flawed, is living in an altered reality.
So if you would like to have an intellectual conversation about the subject I am all open to it.
So now on to your supposedly facts. "dumping estro" as you would like to call it is definitely not healthy and has some serious side effects associated with them, stopping all muscle growth is not one of them.
Having your estrogen severely elevated is just as unhealthy and has a lot of the same negative side effects as low estrogen (and it will hinder growth not stop it). High estrogen will also make you hold fluid, which will increase your body weight, but that doesn't mean you're accumulating all that weight in muscle.
"Fact....that's why dbol, drol and creatine are so talked about" that is not a fact that is a statement at best.
"Problem is noone studies their functions in the body." Actually, people do study the effects of these compounds in the body. I believe you referenced them as "pubmeds".
RustyhookerNoone said severely elevated. But elevated...yup. Muscles dont grow on crashed estro. Sore joints and a whole range of other issues. And yes, i do remember the days before the ai was even considered. You used nolva OR masteron. So here's common sence, use nolva that only blicks nips or masteron which inhibits estro, blocks nips and causes dry/hard muscles?
And yes, I'm pretty sure you're the guy that works in the plant.
So, could you explain a few things to me. Which estrogen are you referring to ( because there's over a dozen different types)?
Can you explain how crashed estrogen stops muscle growth? What are the dynamics involved inside the body that cause this to happen?
So if the old ways worked so well why do you even need an AI (according to your argument)?
So if Masteron, as you call it "blocks nips" then why would you even consider and/or mention Nolvadex?
I don't work in a plant. And I keep telling you that you have me mistaken with someone else.
Look Masteron along with other AAS compounds was studied in the late 60s early 70s as a way of combating and fighting breast cancer. Masteron showed some AI properties , but so did the other AAS compounds. And some of them, like Testosterone Decanoate were found to be even more effective then Masteron at this particular task. So the myth of Masteron being an amazing AI has been falsely propagated over the years. Truthfully, Masteron displays very mild AI properties.
Just because Masteron hardens you up and dries out your skin if you are already lean doesn't make it ineffective tool for combating estrogen in the body. The 2 are totally uncorrelated in this particular example.
They stopped using Masteron as AI because it was found ineffective, not because they forgot how to make it, and that was before they even developed the current crop of AI.
RustyhookerEstradiol. Common sence for you. Blood testing. Common sence for the user. All ai for the last 30+ yrs has been stipulated as ON HAND....AS/IF NEEDED. So after you complete more than 3 cycles you can boast your expertise.
Also, i can dig thru my old forums and cite your past names if you like? It's a lot easier if you're posting facts.
No journals or publications to show you sorry bro... but for me personally i have 33yrs self-exp to prove that my mast/mest combo keeps me in good order even when running duel 19s as i tend to do when cutting for competitions.. i always advise AI should be on hand if problems show up but i think we should all try to find our own E2 levels that still engages the anabolic power of estrogen instead of killing it dead from the start line.
Have you had a different handle previously ?.... i ask this because you seem to trust "the books" and your style does ring a bell in my mind.
I respect 33 years of experience and have almost just as much. I've also worked with a lot of high-level athletes, so I don't just pull this stuff out of thin air. I don't claim to know it all and I am willing to learn from anyone but the stuff I do know I know really well.
I have not had a previous handle so I am sure that you are confusing me with someone else.
It's not so much that i trust the books as trusting the facts. For example, when they specifically design a study to see the half-life of testosterone in its different forms. And they take specific measurements every hour, why wouldnt you trust those results for the half-life of those particular compounds (especially if they are done in males that are healthy).
I think the medical community has a lot to learn from the AAS community but it's also the other way around. Not to pick on your age but you remember when there was no such thing as an AI and what was recommended? It was Nolvadex. You think the AAS community came up with the idea of using an AI all on its own? No, it was from pioneering guys in the AAS community searching and finding the solutions through the as you like to call them "books". Remember the HCG PCT protocols back in the day. Pretty ludicrous compared to today's knowledge.
So if you want to discuss these topics further we can do it in a public forum , or you can PM so that we don't hijack this thread. I'll be more than happy to learn from you if you are willing to teach me.
Sounds like i have nothing to teach you as you are confident with your own knowledge, thats fine by me!... i wont be changing anything that works for me anytime soon nor will the people i train either on here or in real life if the results keep pouring in (which they do) without any problems.
So on this subject we must agree to disagree unfortunately!... bye the way what aspect of the sport are you into.. Bodybuilding, fighting, endurance etc etc
"with a dosage of 437mg/week he is going to need an AI from the beginning".
Not necessarily true. I'm running more test than that, and my blood test has my estro slightly below the middle of the range week 9, barely moved from the start. In fact I can run test considerably higher without using an AI at all.You're assuming everyone is the same, they're not.
Here is my comment on that. Unless you have Aromatase deficiency (which you may very well have based on the claims that you make) you will get elevated E2 at that high of a dosage. I am not assuming everyone is the same, but if you are a healthy male, you will have elevated E2 at that dosage. Now, there might be some things in your diet and supplementation (like zinc) that may help with E2 , but not at these supraphysiological levels.
I've seen hundreds of trt cases and the majority that have to take a high dose (200mg a week +, and trust me, this is high for trt) will have to manage their AI. And although I do respect and acknowledge that not everybody is the same some things are universal. For example, if you take any AAS your HPTA shuts down, there are no ifs ands or buts.
So if you produce Aromatase at 400mg plus a week of testosterone, you will need an AI.
I doubt I have any medical stuff I'm not aware of, I'm an immunologist for a drug manufacture ;) a few more creaking joints than I had at 25, but otherwise I'm holding together.
Whilst I agree with some of what you said, it's based on generalisation, which rarely applies in endocrine science. I don't, nor have ever produced steroids, but I understand how they work pretty well. The one repeating factor I see is you can't look at it in a "black or white" fashion, it's almost all grey.
no confusion buddy, theres been tonnes of proven results rite here on eroids from multiple members with real life experience with it, hope this helps your confusion.
That is a great intellectual response. How about posting some actual scientific research so that we all can benefit from your knowledge. I am willing to learn. Teach me.
lol, mate go to the search bar and look it up, that's what its there for.
I figured you might say something like that , especially after the 1st comment. Good job on helping out the community. Keep up the good work.
lol + 1 for standing up for yourself bro, everybody is entitled to opinions etc, that's the best part of the forum, if people didn't disagree we would have the same out dated info, there is a group on here for advanced members relating to using mast as an ai or gyno prevention, also proven results on here stating the same, but then again every body is different so who knows this guy might react differently, no worries.
I would drop the var. test prop and mast will do just fine, a lot of pinning though, make sure you do full site rotation, with your ai, as your using mast, id just keep it on hand and use when/if necessary, don't want to fully crash your estro, wich you will if you start that dose day 1, p.c.t is ok for your cycle, and generally speaking if you drop the var and just run the prop and mast the hcg is optional. good luck and be safe.
7 weeks of Var sounds like a no go to me IMO... Don't like taking orals more than a month.. Do you homework on that... The Test & Mas look good..