-6 Some questions - Oral Cycle
Hi,
First off I am fairly new to this but I am thinking of running an oral cycle only for my first cycle. If this goes well I am thinking off moving onto injectables. I understand the risks of liver damage etc, so please do write a post saying your an idiot or your a newb, that really doesn't help - What I am looking for is some advice on the cycle. Please note I want to keep it very basic and it's for "bulking", this is a plan my friend suggested ....
I've had gyno before so wanted to run weeks cycle of Milk Thistle (for Liver regeneration) & Letro to make sure it's fully out of my system and clear - I will also have Letro on-hand incase any issues occur on cycle.
Day 1: .25mg Letro
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro
Week -- DBol -- Novaldex
1 -- 30mg / day -- 10-20mg / day
2 -- 30mg / day -- 10-20mg / day
3 -- 30mg / day -- 10-20mg / day
4 -- 30mg / day -- 10-20mg / day
5 -- 30mg / day -- 20mg / day
6 -- 30mg / day -- 20mg / day
7 -- 0mg / day -- 20mg / day
8 -- 0mg / day -- 20mg / day
9 -- 0mg / day -- 20mg / day
10 -- 0mg / day -- 20mg / day
My PCT continues on for 4 weeks and consists of using Novaldex each day.
If anyone could offer any constructive advice then that would be great.
I understand there are different cycles, but I do want to start off using DBOL & Novaldex.
** EDIT ***
Additional info as requested ...
Age: 25
Height: 5'9
Weight: 9.5 stone
Body fat 8%
Cycle History: Zero - have never used any performance enhancers.
Diet plan: Generally around 2000-3000 calories per day. Obviously depends on the exact day, but a normal day consists of the following:
Breakfast
- Weight Shake (1200 Cal)
- Cereal / Fruit / Nuts
Lunch
- Chicken with Pasta w/ Veg or Tuna & Pusta
Dinner
- This kind of depends on the day but there will always be meat
- Weight Shake (1200 Cal)
In between I normally have nuts / fruit and beek jerky /w high protein.
Obviously I have another protein shake before / after workouts as well.
Training
- Go to gym 5 times a week generally (sometimes only 4). I've got a plan done by a personal trainer, who used to be a body builder, so I would say the plan is pretty good. Generally it's 5 weeks on the same plan, a week rest and then a complete change and then another 5 weeks. My main aim is "bulking" up.
Thanks.
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- 6
Quick question I am currently running Test C 500
A week with Anavar 25 twice a day . Been running the test for 6 weeks and Anavar for almost 3 . Was thinking of adding in dbol for the last 4 weeks with the Anavar as it will help with size gains and the Anavar will help keep me dry also
Continuing the test . I have Nolvadex and clomid for post cycle . Just wondering if anyone has tan this before I know two orals are harsh on the liver I am running Cycle assist . Also dbol will only be 4-5 weeks and Anavar is easier on the liver
Anavar is not a diuretic and will not keep you dry while taking Dbol. All the dbol will do is ruin the look you get from var. Also, anavar is not easier on the liver and is one of the worst steroids in terms of flipping your lipids.
I'm seeing alot of high mg test c lately. Test C 500? I've heard test E 500.
There must be alot of EO or Guaiacol in that C 500. I say that because usually anything more than 275- 300mg/mL usually will crash out of oily solution. Edit....good luck
Test C 250 every 4 days
It'll only be water gains, stick to your plan. Your test levels should be peaking now. Focus on diet, the best is yet to come.
Is this guy serious?
CleyonI can't believe anyone still thinks an "Oral only" cycle is ever acceptable. It's not about liver issues, it's about function, if you don't have the Test base, you are wasting your time. SmartGuy, live up to your name. Realize that an oral only cycle will not turn out well for you. Run a Test only cycle if you are hell bent on running, but the comments below about the kitchen work are right on.
It's a pain in the @$$ getting 3500 calories down, but it's necessary. You gotta feed the muscles if you want them to grow! Make sure you get 90 days of perfect eating before starting a cycle. That (to me) is the minimum.
*injectable test. this guy is going to come back with tubes of androgel and tubs of testbooster from gnc
I have always played with the idea of making transdermals from raw powders for kicks. Wonder how much potency they'd lose?
Cleyonfacepalm why didn't I think of that. We need to start a "No Needles, No Steroids" campaign. If you are scared of needles then steroids aren't for you. NO PAIN NO GAIN! And with the PIP I have right now I'm expecting to make Arnold look like a 90lb weakling next week!
naguib123if i ever see u, i will chase u around the room with a needle full of test
I'd freak out if Mcguire chased me with a bat and a syringe.
Giggling like a school girl. Hehehehe!!!
Anonwell you need to up the dosage of the dbol to 50mg taken 2-3 times a day and add 1000 calories to your diet..;. thats just for starts , bro at least add a small dose of test because 2 weeks in you are gonna feel like a dead man because the dbol is gonna shut down your natural test... please take this into consideration, i know what im talkin bout.... been around awhile
Anon...
Before I decided to pin I did a few oral only cycles with mixed results but 10 weeks on Dbol is pretty stupid even with liver support and AI's. Just go to youtube and look for testosterone injections. After seeing some of the little "kids" with hormone issues pinning themselves in the quads with no fear it gave me the balls to start doing it right and pinning.
cdaddy7You really need to go read this post before you do anything:
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/first-time-cycle-...
Anonhis is a terrible cycle, Oral only cycles will shut your system down. You won't feel very well and will also prob have troubles keeping any gains you may make. Your caloric intake is also not high enough to maintain muscle mass for the increased training. Training and diet have to be extra on point should you run a cycle. AAS is a tool and only a tool to achieving your goals, without all the rest your gains will be minimal at best.
yuck man!!! thats a bad cycle. listen to what the guys below have told you.
Dont run this! Go buy a new liver....then get your ass in the gym with FOOD AND BIG WEIGHTS
Obviously your a pussy and afraid to pin
Afraid to pin
Afraid to eat
Afraid to research
Anything else?
cdaddy7Impressive work on this thread I followed u all the way through bro!! +1 for an excellent job!!
yeah man but his girlfriend or mom could find the needles and everything else, it's much easier to make up an excuse for pills ahahaha
Can't agree more with you bro. Some newbies are just not ready for AAS.
The guys here will want know a few things before anyone gives you advice bro.
Age, height, weight, body fat etc.
We also want to see you've done some research before you start throwing stuff down your throat.
However you react to what has been said, DO NOT RUN THIS CYCLE!
Thanks, I've updated it.
I have done some research on this cycle (read a lot of other forums, and now I've read these stickies as well). But there seems to be conflicting advice, some people say Dbol & Nolvadex cycle is a complete recipe for disaster, some people say it's great. Every-time I try and ask for advice it seems that no one is willing to help, but instead just says "DONT RUN THIS CYCLE".
AnonI guarantee you with very few exceptions a dbol cycle is a recipe for disaster. Not to mention that you will lose your gains quickly once you come off. TEST is KING, for a reason.
I highly doubt that anyone would say dbol and nolva is a good first,second third, any number of cycle bc it isnt.....show me anybody that says that is a good cycle.....thats a challenge!
"DONT RUN THIS CYCLE" is the biggest help you can get with this cycle.
Ok, at 9.5 stone your first concern SHOULDN'T be steroids. It's your diet pal. If you want to get big, you have to eat big.
My big problem has always been weight gain, even with a regimented diet plan I can't properly put on that much weight normally as my metabolism is stupidly high - I was only 2000-3000 calories a day and hardly putting on any weight so I do need assistance from that POV.
You need to eat way more than that. Aim for 3500-4000 p/day. Gradually adding food will help you increase your appetite. If you can't gain weight then, go see your doc and ask him to check your thyroid function.
You're not likely to like the advice, but nobody is going to suggest using AAS to a young guy your size that isn't doing the kitchen work right. Take 6 months lifting and eating big, you should pile on weight at your age.
Hi SDM,
Agreed and this is what I have been doing for months, planning my diet and making sure I have the right amount of calories. 3500-4000 calories a day, in a week, it pretty much my body weight! So that's pretty crazy - I will try but if I am honest, 2500-3000 calories per day is quite difficult and I am eating constantly. Obviously if I upped by calorie intake to 5000-1000 then I would gain loads of weight, but let's face it, it's completely unachievable and unrealistic for my size.
I am not looking for a quick win, I am looking to up my calorie in-take and get my training right, I am not one of these people that has just woken up and decided, this has been something I have been thinking about for a while to assist training. And I am adding weight but it takes a LOT longer than let's say normal people here - because my metabolism is high.
That's why I thought using AAS on a very small level may help increase my appetite and also help increase my weight (and bulk). I want to use AAS, but I thought it would be a good idea to ask around here first, before deciding to just "do it" and then make the wrong decision would be disastrous.
Are there any smaller cycles that are extremely basic to get me going that you could suggest? Obviously I will take on board the comments RE weight / calorie in-take as well.
Im jumping in here SDM
AAS is associated with muscle hypertrophy, not metabolic rates.
Drink more protein shakes bro, soon the cals will add up - but make sure you include those solid meals every 2-3hours
x2 - All good mate ;)
x3 - Agreed, although I have seen a number of other members on here which only weigh slightly more than me who are using steroids to assist in their training plan.
So I agree that my diet / training need to be spot on. But once I have got this sorted to a point which is acceptable would that Oral plan be a good idea? Or does anyone have any suggestions for an oral plan? I would quite like to use DBOL if possible to kick start as I've said before.
No - NEVER run an oral only cycle mate. You'll lose 90% or your gains and you'll need a new liver before you're my age. 1st cycle always Test E only. CDaddy has left a fantastic post about this, someone has already linked earlier.
Another point, just read your training plan. I think you're training too much. Others may disagree but at your stage I'd only lift 3 or 4 times a week, no more. Hit it hard, and I mean hard. When I started out I trained 3 days a week - Mon/Wed/Fri.
Aim for 6 or 7 meals per day, eating every 2-3 hours maximum with a good 30-40g of protein in each. At your size you can even eat shit here and there and not worry about it. Your apetite will grow. Patience mate, at 25 you've got loads of time AND plenty of natural Testosterone to use up before AAS.
I agree man
I started off with a 3 day split (mon/wed/fri) with cardio. I learnt to train, and i learnt to eat
Cardio will increase your metabolism bro.
And i'll be nice, because i like you (no homo). No oral only cycles, EVER. Look on the forums, there is plenty of first cycle advice consisting of test e (for example). Save the dbol for your second cycle pal, you need to see how you react to one compound at a time
Oh yeah...
Don't follow the crowd pal.
lol thanks.
Alright after reading quite a bit most people are really against DBOL only cycle and it seems injecting is the way to go. To start off I am thinking going for a very very basic cycle suggested on your forums.
Does this sound like a very simple first cycle?
Week 1-12 Test E @ 500mg/week split doses(250mg twice a week)
15 days after your last injection of Test your PCT begins:
Week 1 Nolvadex 40mg and Clomid 100mg a day
Week 2 Nolvadex 40mg and Clomid 100mg a day
Week 3 Nolvadex 20mg and Clomid 50mg a day
Week 4 Nolvadex 20mg and Clomid 50mg a day
Simple, but effective
Cycle looks good. But you'll need an AI on hand, either adex/asin during the cycle
Thanks.
I am going to ask a complete newb questions here so please forgive me.
I can see that TEST E is sold in 300mg bottles, yet this cycle requires 500mg per week. This would mean I would need quite a lot of bottles of this stuff? Unless I am completely missing something?
One question also regarding the AI, let's say I DO experience issues, how could I go about resolving it (i.e. Gyno)? What would be an acceptable dosage? I am guessing I use it until it's completely gone?
As I said in my OP I've had Gyno before and wanted to run a course of Letro a week before to make sure everything has cleared from before (would rather be pre-cautious) what are your thoughts on this?
Thanks for your help.
Not necessarily bro. It is dependant upon the supplier. In my experiences, i have came across more 250mg vials of test e than 300ml vials.
Say you buy a vial of test e dosed at 250mg and run a 12 week cycle dosed at 500mg/week. Well, since 1ml=250mg, therefore you need 2ml's a week * 12 weeks = 24ml. Then the total volume = 24ml/10(the number of ml per vial) = 2.4.
Therefore, you need 2.4 vials of test e to complete a 12 week cycle dosed at 500mg/week.
Ok. Gyno doesn't suddenly appear. First you will have itchy nipples and many other symptoms. As soon as you notice those symptoms up your dosage of whichever AI you are using. But remember, don't suppress your oestrogen levels too much - tread wrote an article on this point (http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/estrogen-and-test) - great read.
AI
Aromasin @ 12.mg EOD
Arimidex 0.25mg EOD if nipples get sore than 0.5mg EOD if still sore 0.5mg EOD.
Tbh, i have never had gyno, or any issues with gyno, so i'm not the best person to advise you on this subject. I do know however, that if you use the search function on this site, then many many results will appear and aid you
Got you - thanks for that.
250mg / 1ML of Test E seems a lot (looking at a 1ML syringe it's filling up the whole syringe!) - didn't realise it was as much.
500mg per week (x12) of Test E injections = 6,000mg.
As they are in 300mg vials, that means I need 20 vials for a 12 week course. Pretty expensive!
** Edit **
Defiantly got something wrong in that calculation, otherwise a 12 week course would cost about £700!
tread-mIf you have test 300 that mean 300 mg's PER ML, there are 10 ml per bottle so you have 3000 mg's per bottle. Make sense?
cdaddy7Master T, this guy Play is a sharp lil cookie!!! I been watching him. Good stuff
You're almost there.
You need 20ml, which is 2vials.
+1
The range you supplied us with "2000-3000 cals" is such a big range - this tells me that you have not fine tuned your diet.
I've done some work for you (SMH) read this (http://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/whats-for-dinner/cal...)
Find out how many cals you need to maintain size, then eat more if you want to grow. Trust me, its a very simple equation:
To Lose Weight = Eat less than maintenance cals
Maintain Weight = Eat enough cals - no more, no less
To Gain Weight = Eat more than maintenance cals
Then, once you've found out that info, use the PM function, or the forums, and look for macro-nutrient breakdowns -
n fire today bro... this is how to grow karma