+ 1 Lean Bulk Cycle Feedback
Male, age 43.
Training for about 3 years consistently.
168lbs @ 9% Body Fat
Diet dialed in. Bloodwork prior to begining very clean.
So I came up with this cycle I want to run to gain mass. Would love opinions on it:
Compounds and Dosages
1. Testosterone E: 500 mg per week (Weeks 1-11) I already run TRT.
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NPP (Nandrolone Phenylpropionate): 70 mg every other day (Weeks 1-8) For lean mass gains and joint health.
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Anadrol: 50 mg daily (Pulsed Weeks 1-2, 5-6, 10-11) Boost in size and strength.
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Proviron: 25 mg daily (Weeks 1-11)
Enhances free testosterone levels and adds muscle hardness. -
Ipamorelin and Tesamorelin: Dosage per protocol (Weeks 1-10) Boosts growth hormone release.
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Arimidex: 0.25 mg twice a week (as needed) Aromatase inhibitor to manage estrogen-related side effects.
Support Supplements
Berberine: 600 mg per day
Enhances insulin sensitivity to support nutrient uptake and reduce fat gain.
TUDCA and NAC: Supports liver health.
Citrus Bergamot and CoQ10: Manages lipid levels and supports cardiovascular health.
Post-Cycle TRT Taper (Weeks 12-16)
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Weeks 12-13: Reduce Testosterone to 350 mg per week. A gradual reduction to maintain some elevated testosterone levels as the body adjusts.
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Weeks 14-15: Reduce to 250 mg per week
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Week 16: Resume standard TRT dose (e.g., 120 mg per week)
So my main question is:
- What changes would you recomend?
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If it hasn't been said before, this cycle will make you hold a ton of water. You'll have a ton of fullness but you should really watch your blood pressure. 250mg npp + 350mg adrol is doable for some but could be very problematic for others. And provirons a waste of money imo. Everything looks solid otherwise though.
Diet dialed in?
168 lb, 43 years old.
You have not been lifting a long time.
What does "diet dialed in, looking to add mass" mean to you?
If you want to add mass, eat carbs, proteins, and fats.
168lb is super lightweight.
That all looks good to me - is this your first cycle though? If so then you don't really need the Anadrol and would be better starting off on just the Test at that dosage. To come straight out of the gates and start munching Adrol tabs may even put you off steroids as its not a 'good feeling' steroid as such. You'll experience what having high blood pressure feels like thats for sure lol
anvilThis is version 3.0 . We been working on it.
No research done. Tossing a dozen chems just causes issues.
I wouldnt lean bulk when it diesnt really exist. Modify intake of cals and do a proper cycle.
anvilTwins...
Evil minds! Pinky and the Brain. Lol
anvilI'll take it brother!
Micro grams??? Like bearded said Proviron and masteron are basically the same thing. Just pick one 50mg Proviron for your bodyweight probably don't need that much. I take 25mg when i do and I'm 240lbs.
I wouldn't go near an a.i. unless u needed it. Nolvadex might work just fine if u did. Don't have to go straight to heavy hitters.
35000mg test cyp??? Your a beast. Yeah your gonna need a gradual reduction from that alright. Lol.
I hope that's a typo along with the mcg of npp and mast. If they're not u might need to head back to the natty drawing board.
Good luck be safe
mg, it is in fact a typo.
- can remove masteron based on your comment.
-will adjust Proviron to 25mg
-350mg on test taper, edited post to reflect it.
Can you give me further feedback once those changes are applied? I appreciate the actual feedback you have given, I do.
Id go with test e just to switch it up and hit the receptor with something diff. Your body gets used to the same thing.
I'd save the tbol. For another cycle to lean out.
Only take adex of u really need it.
If your going to go the non hgh route. People are getting crazy igf1 results with mk677 25mg daily at night and cjc1295 w/ dac 2.5mg every 5 days. Someone posted blood work on another forum doing just that and his igf1 was 745. Which is like doing 10iu of hgh or more.
25mg adrol id just do the whole 50mg pwo. And 2 week pulses?? No good IMO. Do it for 4 to 6 weeks straight at least. And id even go to 100mg pwo for the last 2 weeks. Your biggest thing with that is probably gonna be high blood volume. Not so much liver issues. At least that is how it works for me.
@smurfdude1234567 I'm pretty sure 100mg of Adrol will affect liver enzymes for most.....no? And I remember chatting with Mak about pulsing before he posted that. I kinda agreed with him but I wasn't 100%. Doesn't apply to me cause I'm no Adrol type guy but to each their own
Yeah. This site is shit harm reduction not just building raw over the top muscle. So maybe that wasn't the best advice.
Some other forums I'm on that might be considered moderate. But that's guys who are trying to be pro or are. Who really are willing to risk allot. But they'll look at 50mg adrol like wtf is that. They do 150mg and that's it.
One dude was running 60mg sdrol. Abs I've seen people taking about dudes going up to 80 to 100mg. Which i thinks crazy.
But my girl went on reddit and saw a woman posing about using sdrol because of the anabolic to andro ratio and she was using 20 to 30mg daily. At 135lbs. So.
Hey it is what it is
Yeah that woman using must of gotten fake cause she definitely more than likely won't last long on it. I dunno man maybe I'm just looking at the dosaging thing the wrong way. I still don't get it. On top of that how do guys tolerate massive amounts without feeling horrible? I'm puzzled or confused like a mofo.
Maybe I'm just jealous lol
Made further adjustments based on your feedback, greatly appreciated.
The reason I am running the Ipa and Tesa is because I already have shit tons of it, so figured Id incorporate it.
Again, I value your willingness to help!
Your welcome
Agree with a couple things you said and am not even mentioning this case, but I highly suggest you give this a read! I’ve done this very successfully with a couple of the more toxic compounds and it can be very effective and much easier on the body!
https://www.eroids.com/forums/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/why-you-shou...
That's interesting.. guess that's why it works better for me when i go up 50mg every 2 weeks.
That's a good idea what he said to though and probably better for long term.
I usually end at 150mg ed so it's kinda like 3 weeks 50mg, 3 or 2 weeks 100mg ed, then the same with 150mg based off how i feel. But i usually feel fine.
Just keep in mind i can take sdrol an feel pretty much"fine" so idk if i have a high tolerance for orals or what but I've never had the extreme sides they say come with orals just lethargy.
Wow yeah you sound like a lucky one!
Hey really that just suggests that you are in great health especially liver wise. Does your bloodwork reflect the normal side effects when taking those more toxic orals? My BP would be through the roof at that dose of Adrol for so long. That’s interesting for sure- we are all different.
I know there will be allot if sideways looks at this. But i don't get blood work like that. Last time i did was at the end of a 5 week sdrol test deca Proviron run. But i was in the hospital because i did legs too hard and got rhabdomyosis. So that takes a toll on over and kidney values. But they were only slighty elevated. And they were saying it was because of the muscle being broken down poisoning my body. I want taking any liver support that some time only the first week they stopped cuz i didn't and flush the gear out of my system faster. I took a 6 week break from Cycle of adrol test mast and oral winny the last 25 days.
I am also immune to hepatitis c. Idk if that means anything. I also was a bad i.v. drug use heroin and fetty to be specific. So i know opioid withdrawal too well. I also think that plays a role in me not really noticing sides from gear. Because compared to that. It's a joke.
A little lethargy is nothing opposed to being sick on a toilet bowl pissing out your ass while vomiting in a garbage pail.
So I'm sure that knocks you're pain tolerance up a bunch of knotches u know.
I actually had some Convos with another member who went thrift the sand things as me be was taking dbol adrol halo winny all oral all at the same time and he didn't have any lethargy. Abs it was actual me and him that came up with that theory of being addicts abs ex opiate drug users this was nothing compared to that.
To be honest just because you don't notice any sides doesn't mean that you aren't experiencing some sides within. Bloods don't lie. Bloods are what everyone should go by and nothing else. No money for bloods then no money for cycle. I've seen it play out so I can speak on this
U didn't read what i said. I had them checked when i was in the hospital cuz i workout so dam hard squatting 365 15 some m times dropped to 315 15 times do to 225 20 times i got rhabdomyosis. I had to go to the hospital. And they checked them and my shit was fine.
It got nothing to do with money man.
Getting the prescription and going to the place is annoying. I wish 200 measley dollars was allot of money to me. Your right i wouldn't be wasting it on juice.
Cuz honestly i was benching 415 squatting 585 and deluding 625 8 times in prison with no steroids no supplements. So i probably don't really need it. But it's something i want to do so since i got the means why not.
U wanna use your time doing what u want go head. But don't go assuming someone ain't doing something for whatever reason u think. Cuz that might not be the case.
I check my b.p. 3 times a day.
And that's the first indicator somethings off. And if it was if take it from there. But I'm not just going doing blood work just for good measure. I don't even wanna go donate blood.
I get it but I'm telling you man it has nothing to do with assumptions it's about safety. We can feel fine but not always the case inside as u know. I don't wanna do bloodwork either but it's gotta be done, especially if someone is using a lil higher dosages. Like I said before, I had a workout buddy that felt he didn't like getting bloods. The dude ended up fking himself up. I saw it first hand. Just saying. To each their own though.
I read what you said. Yeah squatting that much weight or even more than that can do things to the body so I can relate to that but I never got rhabdo, but what I was saying is bloods are what we go by. Not an attack on you but about being honest and safety. I know we are guilty of going by how we feel and I'm guilty of that to but that's not how it is or should be at least. But hey it's folk's money and they're gonna do whatever they want to do. Like I said no attack on you but speaking truth and that applies to everyone. And yeah money is an issue to some folks so they don't get bloods.
Tru..
Nah yeah that did bother me a Lil tbh. I felt u were trying to play me a Lil by saying if u can't afford this u shouldn't do that thing. But i get what your saying. An I'm sure it is the ideal way to go about things.
I just don't get like u can only donate blood so often so if that's too high. What can u do anyway. Obv there's plenty of other things u can do something about. That's just like something i think about to.
Look like I said I haven't done things perfectly myself. Just be safe man that's all. And yeah either you took my comment the wrong way or It came out of me the wrong way. If someone isn't getting regular bloods then donating blood is the next best thing to do. It's just about trying to do it the right way.
Talked to lots of guys who feel the same. I’m not going to give you shit about bloods man- it’s your choice and body. I was the same way and I’m sure you’ve heard a little of my story’s fent was my DOC too. Yep nothing compared and I was completely dumb with my use for a long time hence being on TRT in my early 30’s. I mainly get them for peace of mind nowadays. So cheap I can’t argue it and helps my RBC.
Me and chuck talked the same though haha… I went into rehab with amonia levels and bloods with chemicals similar to a window cleaner…. These compounds are nowhere near as dangerous/taxing as the stuff we were doing. That doesn’t mean it’s okay to be careless, but I completely see what you’re saying!
Lmao that's who i was taking about i had that Convo with also. I actually brought that point up to him.
Yeah like this shits not that bad. But Def don't be careless. The negative are Def way over hyped tho. If u look at the post i just did above you'll see what i says about this site being about harm reduction also. So that's another factor.
Yeah my blood was good tho when i did have it checked.
U say they're so cheap. Where? Someone told me but i forgot. Chuck said i could get it done for free even. I'm in N.Y.
Oh damn I dunno about New York as some states have different private blood test rules, but AnyLabTestNow or even Quest when clinic orders. Always under $80 now for my full panel no insurance coverage on it. Compared to how much I throw at gear that 1-2 times month is worth the peace of mind. Most of us benefit from that little bit taken out due to RBC/hematocrit levels
Honestly i think that's probably one of the biggest things. Rbc hemoglobin hematocrit. But it's like even if bloods show there high. U can only donate 1 time every 2 months here. So what's it matter u know. What wise could u do take baby aspirin?
Exactly that's a lot of a toxic oral especially like you said for that long. He says his liver isn't really affected but for most folks it would be. Nah he'll nah lol. Lethargic like a mofo
Trying to respond to this comment and the one above at the same time- yeah Adrol is one I practically have to pulse especially if I play with doses that high.
If I ran it consecutively I would be pouring blood from my nose every time I sneezed lol. Seriously bad BP problems with that stuff. Luckily my appetite stays okay most of the time despite the compound, but I do get major lethargy.
Yeah. I can take allot of shit but if i was bleeding it off my nose when i sneezed all the time I'd probably be a Lil worried.
Abs in not trying to be tough or whatever just that after everything I've seen in my life i know it takes allot to hurt the human body. It's not as fragile as people think. U know. And i think when it's your time is your time bottom line. So people who go from doing gear i feel is underlying issues that it accelerated. That was gonna harken eventually anyway. U know
I understand. Blood when you sneeze? Nah he'll no... I'll pass. That's crazy my man
I thought I told you that story LOL! So I’d never ever had a bloody nose outside of trauma(fights, football, wrestling, etc.) EXCEPT for with Adrol! 100mg 3-4 weeks in I was lifting and it just was like a faucet turned on. Could not get it to stop for a solid 30 minutes. Has happened a couple times since only on Adrol and always when BP is high.
Nah man that's crazy. I remember seeing a famous world record powerlifter training at one of the gyms I worked out at. The dude was squatting 900 for reps and bleeding out of his nose and his eyes were blood shot red with a little blood flowing out. It was crazy man.
As soon as I noticed it was @Makwa I knew it was great advice. Updated the plan with the info. Any other comments?
Mak is a great guy. Miss him a ton and have learned so much from the dude- honestly you can learn a lot just by going to his profile and clicking “forums”. You can see everything he’s posted on that account.
Without prior history, bloods, experience, diet breakdown, and detailed goals I don’t have a lot to comment. I will say my friends list and private messages are always open if you have specific questions and would like my opinion. You will almost always get an answer that lands on the side of less is more/harm reduction with me though.
Sweet, giving it a read right away.
11 weeks of orals for a bulk… apetite suppression, liver stress so you can’t digest food as well, and hard hits to the cholesterol levels.
Need more gear? Just take more shots. Test/mast/npp is a great run. Don’t get fancy man. With all love and respect you just aren’t at the level that you’d need to game plan this so much. Eat, train, pin, sleep repeat.
Provi probably not needed if you’re taking mast.
I agree with @anvil on the gh, if you want growth just pin growth.
Had to read a few things twice....orals at 11 weeks and 3500mg test / wk taper. But good point. Hope all is well.
anvilBetter said by you my guy.
anvilFirst i hope you mean mgs, and not mcg for the NPP and Mast.
1. good
2. okay
3. Why ?
4. 25mgs of anadrol shouldn't disrupt you're hunger but if you know you're body.
5. Tbol cheap mans anavar I would just run var instead
6. If you say so
7. Get GH and don't waste your money on these
8. Good
TRT seems fine...At 168 unless you are 4 feet tall you need a growth phase not a "lean bulk" which if you a real one , you know that you cannot efficiently do both at the same time. It isn't a complex gear stack with a perfect plan. It is the macro count that needs to be manipulated not 9 compounds and dose combinations.
Would you mind describing what that growth phase should look like? Legitimately want to learn from your perspective.
anvilOf course brother , I leverage food over gear first. I do not recommend linear "cycles" to anyone. So add 5-10% to macros. Start out with maybe 300-400mg test if your dead set on running npp then 200 is a good place to start. Then watch your gains, if weight doesn't move up first increase food another 5%, then look to moving to 400-500 test which should be good strong dose for you, and 250 npp. Then look at blood work if everything looks good keep going, don't set a 16 week limit if health is good and still making gains do not stop because of a pre set date. I like pulsing anadrol also so I agree there. Everything that is not actual GH is inferior to it. So save the money mk677 will still only allow to produce what your body can make as compared to an outside source of GH will elevate it more. This a proven deal.
Your approach seems fair to me. While clearly the post does not demonstrate it, I normally do things like that, progressively based on outcomes. I think the taper down to TRT kinda shows it.
Seems like you would leave out the Proviron?
From a macros perspective, I agree, but here is my concern. Last time I "bulked", I thought I was doing things right. about 400cal surplus, 220g protein, most whole foods, training like a beast, and I went from 190 to 215, which was great. Then, I realized a great portion of it was either fat or water. Therefore my "lean mass" comment. I just dont want to get too far out of shape in the process, thats really my goal/concern.
Thanks again buddy!
anvilOf course brother. For me, growth phases will not take me much over 15% percent BF, just asking for more side effects. So, very to comparable to you're goals. Dirty bulks are for 320 lbs pros that need to really push and shouldn't exist in our gym bro world. NNP and the A bombs will really add the water weight for sure.
So what should I aim for in your opinion? 1lbs/week? 2? How much actual tissue is it possible?
anvilTotally dependent on you, I go with how I look, feel. Start it up and just keep making adjustments until you find a path that is working well for you. You might be about to jump 20lbs in 24 weeks, me I almost 50 so its a slow grind. As long as you either going up in strength or weight or both you are doing well.