+ 1 First Cycle observations
Hello All,
I started my first cycle just over 2 weeks ago (3rd pin will be this friday) and i wanted to start this thread to note done my observations and activities as I think I'm getting some odd responses and people with more experience might be able to help/guide me through. I've been training for 5 years and have made some good gains from when i started out. I'm the stereotypical yoyo dieter, lightest ive been in recent years (2014) was 11 st 3 and well now im not so good...
so the cycle- which I'm using to cut
250mg test e EW 12 weeks
70mg var ed weeks 1-4 8-12 (split ed 20 30 20)
diet:
Pre cycle i was on 2600 with a 40/40/20 split and was 13 st 11 down from 14 7 at the turn of the year so i was losing weight on that amount
on cycle dropped to 2400 for first week with the same split and then the second week down to 2000 which i am curently eating at now.
Training: split push Pull legs over 5-6 days with 15-20 mins of LISS cardio at the end of each session
Observations
week 1: felt effects of var, muscles felt harder almost like having a constant pump but not cramp feeling, my weight went from 13 11 to 14 1 in 4 days then to 14 3 in the next 3
Week 2: weight increased 2 days in to 14 5(!) var feelings still the same although lower back feels noticeably tighter/slight cramping. maybe placebo of being on but nips started to tingle and the rapid increase in weight although dropped calories i put down to increased e levels so have started letro at 1.25 ed. today (Wednesday) I am now 14 3.5 but have slashed calories to 2000
Im not expecting miracles with this cycle but i know this i a prime opportunity to make some really good progress and i feel like i'm throwing it away. consuming the calories i was when natty and losing weight i thought with increased test levels and the car to boot i should lose even more but instead I gained 8+ lbs in 10 days...
the other thing that has confused me is that i dot feel 'fatter'. my waist measures the same, my legs have increased slightly by 3/4 inch. my chest/back feel larger as some of my clothes feel tighter in that area. what has caused this i dont know, maybe increased water in the muscles.
now i have this in writing i will continue to update to keep me accountable for my progress and also to log what ive been doing and if i did another cycle to see what i did wrong.
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Omg 2000 cals a day I would be starving to death you get a +1 just for that lmao you're a hardcore motherfucker to be walking around starving all day. And yeah tingly nips and 8 pounds on var with that amount of food is strange beware of anavar it's often faked like primo
Tbh 2000 isn't that bad, I'm busy most of the day and drink about 5 litres of water so that keeps me full and I don't have time to think about getting hungry
I'm busy most of the day also but I think about 99 percent of the time lmao I eat that in just breakfast man! Well ish for breakfast usually around 1600 calories
Looks like for starters anavar dosage is IMO way high I never go over 50mg split 25am-25pm and letro is even way more out of whack also on the high side for starters.
I've taken letro 3 days at 1.25 and several have said that is too high. In hindsight it probably is too high and I don't want to smash my E levels too much so will drop to eod. I've also ordered a pill cutter that should be here today should I need to drop it less.
Letro on cycle is common and is more cost effective than using nolva
Sounds to me like your var is more likely dbol. 8lbs on var in 1 wk and nips feeling tingly....no way on var, dbol yes.
I know you are trying here, but it is completely unneccesary to be running a cutting cycle starting at 20-25% BF.
From the gains I've seen made on this var by others there is no way it can be dbol as the popping veins and shred wouldn't be possible on dbol.
Yeah I know my bf% is disgracefully high but it's something I've wanted to do and always had the mindset that I don't deserve to cycle where I am currently- like I hadn't earned the right to, but the opportunity came up to cycle with a good friend and inthought it's now or never really. I know I'm not gonna be shredded down to like 6% but it would be nice to make some real progress and get past my previous best. It's also a good learning curve for me too.
ever heard of recomping? gaining muscle while losing fat? And the water your going the gain the first few weeks of your cycle? Youre not putting on any real size with 2000 cals a day, definitely not fat, might have gained a little bit of muscle but if you were losing weight on 2600 calories naturally and steroids typically speed up ones metabolism to some degree youre going to be losing a lot more weight on 2000 calories. I think your really really short changing yourself with that diet. 2000 calories is way to fucking low to start out with, thats probably where you should end up at the end of your cycle after slowly decreasing your calories throughout the cycle. If you start at 2000 then plateau where do you go? 1700, then 1500, thats a female diet. Youre in the pefect postion to add a decent amount of muscle while losing fat like you want to, but if your calories are to low this wont happen. Id bring them back up to 2500ish, idk about your metabolism but i started a cut like 2 years ago around your weight, i think i was like 197, and 2500 had me dropping 2lbs a week like clockwork. With the carb cycle I never had to lower my cals as my body never got used to the macros as they would change daily.
Now for your cycle, we dont advise anymore then one compound on ones first cycle, these effects your getting, how do you know its from the test or the var? you say you feel the effects of the var, test will give make it feel like your muscles are pumped all day long and much much harder then normal. So now youre not even getting the chance to learn the base of all cycles and the most important drug becuse your running two that youre never used at the same time. Thats no good. Second, 70mgs of anavar? If you need to take 70mgs of anavar you need to have a word with your source, and ask for a full refund. If we get any of the old timers in here who ran it right when it came out they would take 15-20mgs ed and get fucking nose bleeds and shit cause it was so strong. My good friends an ifbb pro and used var as part of his prep into his last show and ran 30mgs ed, and hes fucking massive, and he always tells me no more then 30mgs ed and thats really all you can handle if you have real anavar, 50 max for someone whos used it a few times but even on 30-50 it becomes almost impossible to eat. If your running 70 its either very very underdosed, or faked and actually tbol or possibly winny. Tbol would be my guess, most guys find 50-70 to be their sweet spot.
And letro on cycle really isnt a great idea, but if thats all you got then you can make due. But if you crash your estrogen which you wll do taking 1.25mgs ed your life will suck until you can get your estrogen levels to return to normal. Id even say 1.25 twice a week is way to much and will crash your estro, especially starting it this early at week two before your gear has had time to fully kick in and is actually converting to estrogen at a decent rate. think of it like this, most people on that dose take around .25mgs of adex either twice a week, or eod, sometimes going up to .5mgs eod but thats rare, and letro is much stronger then adex, so id be thinking about something like .625mgs 2-3 times a week. But bloodwork mid cycle will tell you if you fucked up or not, or sooner if your dick stops working and you feel like total shit all day and your joints hurt like hell, then youll kinda know you crashed your estrogen. you need estrogen to grow,
Thanks for your reply, i will try and answer what you've said as detailed as i can. yes I have heard of recomping and gaining muscle whilst dropping fat and that unless your a newbie lifter doing that naturally is nigh on impossible or gains will be very slow. I knew i would gain some water weight and Im under no illusions that im not going to be making powerhouse muscle gains in the first 2 weeks at 250mgs but i thought the water would come on gradually and maybe only 2-3 lbs. So that caught me off guard so i pulled calories to try and stop gaining whatever it was that was causing it. In terms of crashing i thought the main reason for running test with a cutting agent like var is to keep your body in an anabolic state so when you pull calories and increase cardio/workouts etc to make a larger deficit you cant go catabolic?
I also know i have broken the golden rule of not stacking for a first cycle but trying to make the most of the 12 weeks. I put the muscle aches/pump down to the var because at 250mg of test there shouldnt really be any sides i wouldn't have thought. I don't know if you can say lab sources or brands on here so i wont but i know the var is legit as have read many reviews and seen it first hand with latsbrah who has commented on here, he has made some mighty gains running it on low dose test (around 450mgs i think) so i know its legit and i cant blame that for my lack of progress. Also i know the test is good too.
The taking of letro was because the gyno symptoms seemed quite strong and as I have the shape to quite easily get bitch tits so to use an arom inhibitor to try and reverse the sides and lower the E levels. I have nolva on hand also but as that suppresses the receptors to stop or slow down gyno and doesn't revers it i didnt take that instead.
do you have to post a pic via photobucket or can you just copy and paste one into the thread? I have some progress photos Ive been taking since the start of the year so will also upload them too. currently around 20-25% BF, i have no way of accurately measuring so is a complete guess
Top right drop down menu, submit a picture, you'll work it out from there. I managed to so it must be idiot proof ;)
Want to take a look at your diet mate? Maybe we can tweak it for you to get some better results.
ok thanks i will take a look
In terms of Diet, i use MFP to track stuff as its dead easy during week days my diet is mainly the same as what its what i take to work, evening meals vary slightly.
breakfast (7 days)
45g porridge oats
45g choc whey
20g honey
415 cals F:6.8g C:45 P:39.7
meals 2,3,4
1 tin of tuna
40g sweetcorn
12 tbs of light mayo
3 rice cakes
315 cals F:10.6 C:29.5 P:33.2
300g cottage cheese
mixed leave salad with pepper
cals: 200 F:1.8 C:13.5 P:27.6
100g cooked chicken breast (grilled)
30g salad cream
1 wholemeal pitta
cals 398 F:12.2 C:33.6 P:33
evening meal:
carb source like jacket potato/pasta with chicken/fish
will also have a 30g protein whey shake after training
Weekends I usually hit about 180g of protein and then try and hit my cals with carbs and fats but it no particular ratio.
I miss salad cream from sainsburys..love that stuff
bigmurphIf you're really 25 I think you're doing well but if you're really not 25 I would hold off. Also posting a pic will get rid of any concerns about your age.
Good luck and good gains brother
can confirm op is 25 year old manlet
do you have to post a pic via photobucket or can you just copy and paste one into the thread? I have some progress photos Ive been taking since the start of the year so will also upload them too. currently around 20-25% BF, i have no way of accurately measuring so is a complete guess
bigmurphYou should be able to copy and paste if not you can post in the pics section your progress