posted Sun, 05/10/2015 - 04:19
4307
+ 1 Does it have to always be test? First Cycle
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Seems the standard advice on a first or second cycle is to simply bump up the test to 400/600 or whatever.
Wondering why test solo is always recommended?... understand that it's needed as a base for various reasons e.g. sexual function & AAS are suppressive. but
There are AAS that seem to have a better side effect profile for certain goals. .e.g. Var or Eq
Sides of concern on higher test are aromatization & DHT sides like speeding up MPB
What about 200 test c and idk... 400 eq for 20 weeks? (may help if endurance is part of the goal)
Or test and var for 10 weeks? (if the goal is not bulking)
Or test and XXX?
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This dude pissed me off from jump....got in all our faces, hid behind his keyboard, thought he was a bad ass, and was too disrespectful for this community. Glad he is gone...for now..hope he learns what EROIDs is all about from this experience.
I think he came across as argumentative and even a smart ass BUT he raised a valid point IMO. He had to use an AI on a very low dose of test, so there is some logic to not running a 500mg test cycle and instead running low dose test and EQ.
Be crystal clear that I'm not singling you or anyone out here, but I've said it before, it's the "cookie cutter" approach. Do it the eroids way or it's wrong. Not always true. It might not be what we would personally do, but it's not necessarily wrong.
RustyhookerLogic definitely. But on his other forum he said he ran no ai and was not going to even get bloods done. Without knowing his reactions to simple test, he's gonna have trouble in future.
More than one way to get the job done for sure.
Right...like i told him his question lacked clarity....but i believe his understanding lacked clarity, too. OP was off track and argumentative because the answer to his question was simple. We are born with testosterone in our body, not boldenone, which Rusty said best, as well as, other memebers. I can guarantee u one thing, though. His next approach will be more respectful, hopefully...lol!
Can't help everyone mate. You can only try ;)
Go troll somewhere else..
AnonNever mind..... Go for it.... What do we know
i8bobGuys, sorry but this test only argument is lame.
Doesn't make sense to me to advise test only as a first cycle, especially if someone is prone to sides from DHT and aromatization, and even if they don't know what they are prone too in sides, logic points towards choosing a mix of compounds that have the LEAST potential sides and that's NOT a high dose of test. After all there is a reason there are other compounds, otherwise all there would be only test if test was be-all and end-all.
Ask yourself, which cycle will have less sides and management of estrogen/DHT? 500 test c weekly or:
Test base of 150 + var
Test base of 150 + Eq/Boldenone
Test base of 150 + (VAR/Nandrolone/SD/Boldenone/Turinabol/Epistane/Primobolan)
Or 500 Test/Arimidex/Finasteride?
Both Finasteride and Dutasteride can cause erectile dysfunction & suppressed libido in men and e2 is tricky to manage with AI's
Test only argument is lame:
1. Have to see how you react to test & aromatization
2. Don't run two compounds because you need test as a base and shouldn't have test + something
Seems this is a bit of a religious argument though for folks like rusty with his itty bitty titties and training bra
Here's some good reading
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2012/anabolic-steroids-and-male-pattern-bald...
Anonsmh..... Some newb will see this and think yea I'm gonna do this
And you have ran how many cycles?
Oh no. More? Give it a rest bro. You got your advice. Take it or don't. You are free to do whatever you think is best. Just not with the blessings of people here. But, who cares? You can post links to a veritable library of articles that support your position. It's not going to change the view here. So, why bother. Enjoy whatever cycle you want.
RustyhookerFunny! This guy is....funny!
Worried about estro, dht, and hair loss. Yet, refuses to learn estro management and control. Probably doesn't even realize that estro...wait for it....is helpful!!! Holy crap...estro is HELPFUL?!?! Yes, it is.
Dht....check your genetics before you stress dht. Anyone with 10 mins and a peanut can research hair preservation.
You should a named this post "fuck you I'm doing it!"
Troll is as troll does. Feeling froggy, then jump sonny! Go do your knowledge blown cycle. This site ain't giving back rubs for ignorance.
I personally believe if you are so afraid of mpb you should stay away from any more AAS. That var you list has a very high likelihood of being faked as winny and/or dbol which will blast you hair line if you are prone to mpb. And that EQ can cause it as well and by the time you realize it you will have to wait weeks for it to clear. I don't have mpb from any of the compounds myself but even if I did I would be like you and want to avoid fina. So in conclusion I personally believe if you are that worried about your hairline just stay on TRT.
i8bobmofo, scared is not the right word. I know I'm prone to MPB so will avoid accelerating it, why not?.. really the same as any other side... if you know your generically prone to anxiety on a substance you'll look for alternatives same for acne or whatever. Yes EQ can increase MPB in some at higher doses but is friendlier than test.
Really surprised I have to explain this to such "experienced" folks
Let me rephrase it for you then. imo I just simply believe if one wants to truly avoid hair loss just don't do AAS. You seem to know it all already so why even ask? You're a grown man do whatever the fuck you want. We all are just giving our own opinion.
Oh and I saw someone begged you so here's a +1 just to let you know it wasn't me.
i8bobOh here's a excellent article on the subject
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2011/testosterone-and-conforming-to-popular-...
Do you even read what you post?
Regardless, you've gotten your answer from Eroids. You're free to do what you please and seek a co-sign elsewhere. Some folks just like to learn the hard way... Good luck.
i8bobyou represent eroids? thought this was an open forum?
You seem to be of the opinion that this is simply fact, I'm challenging what you believe is fact, hope your ok with that.
Repeating sometime over and over may work well in politics but doesn't make it true.
Just to make myself as popular as rabies, here's a copy and paste of what I wrote in your other thread:
As I said, your case is a little different to the usual new member. I wouldn't do it the way you're proposing personally but you're not running stupid doses and not blindly diving in without any thought. Considering that you've had to use AI control on a low test dose, one could argue that the risk of running higher test alone with estro conversion in your case is an argument for using EQ.....
So, in many respects I agree with you here and I may have even "sowed the seed". There is an element of "this is the eroids way" which works in 99% of cases. Your situation, as mentioned above is fairly unique. I've been here longer than most and your set of goals / circumstances / prior TRT dose are outside the box of what we usually see.
I think where you may have gone a little wrong is your approach, you've come across badly to these guys, so it's all taken a bit of a negative spin. You've little or no experience yet you're telling guys with a lot of knowledge they're wrong etc. Scientific data is great, but when it comes to steroids really all you have is personal experience. Trust me, I work in R&D in the pharmaceutical industry. You won't help that by making comments like you did to Rusty. Nobody, especially our age, needs to make personal comments. I wasn't involved, so in reality my opinion is largely irrelevant.
i8bobCatalyst, I figured it was a pretty simple question in isolation and that folks will have differing opinions based on science and experience and some, like you do. I certainly value that sort of input whichever argument is made.
Others, like rusty, get angry & condescending if you don't agree with their logic, frankly it's quite amusing.
Actually... after seeing your goals in THIS POST, I have to agree with those who advised you not to do any other compounds than your TRT test.
Your already on a low carb diet, so switching to full KETO shouldn't be a problem for you and will give you the results you are after...
i8bobThanks, yeah keto does help, tough to maintain though esp. when I have to travel for work
Well, with every calorie restrictive diet your gonna need some dedication. Other than that, keto is actually the best diet for "when your on the road". Hard boiled eggs, salami, cheese, dairy products, butter,... all these are easy to get anywhere.
i8bobThanks guys, appreciate the responses, some where informative
I'll either do a test only with finasteride or test/eq cycle. I'm leaning toward a 200/400 test/eq cycle with a very slow build up on the EQ to see how I react to it, but not decided yet. Will do more research.
It's obvious you had your mind made up before you asked this question (in two different forum posts). You've done nothing but argue with several expert members (who have years of experience).
Next time, keep your throughts to yourself and quit wasting time and looking for a co-signer.
I hope it works out how you hope, but don't come back when things go south. Good luck.
i8bobMaybe I wasn't clear, this is not an emotional appeal or argument, I'm simply asking for peoples experiences and sources of information to make an informed decision. Just cause I'm not leading in the direction you like doesn't mean it's not entirely valid.
And I've got lots of good information so far from folks that choose to be constructive
In fact the advice I have got has changed what I was originally thinking entirely.. so was worth the post
Bro, do whatever you fucking want. It's abundantly clear in this thread that the consensus is NO EQ. Yet, you have not abandoned the idea, still clinging to it like a life preserver on the sinking Titanic. You want that fucking EQ some how, some way and that's it.
You're hilarious. Why?
EQ is notorious for jacking up BP. Your response: That won't be a problem for me cause I have low BP. EQ is notorious for jacking up your hematocrit and thickening your blood to a nice syrupy consistency. Your response: That also won't be a problem for me cause I got low RBC. What are you fucking anemic?
I have more than sympathy for ignorant guys that do stupid shit. I have worked with kids that have been banned here outside of eroids to help straighten out the mess they have made of their health.
But you - you're a wise ass. Face the consequences of your own making. When you come back here after your bloods are all fucked up looking for answers - I will link to this forum post. I have an excellent memory
Please don't think you have angered or upset me in any way. That would take a lot more than what you can dish out bro.
Best of Luck to You. The die has been cast.
i8boblol you guys are so uptight
Oh bro, do you think my tone above is uptight? Not at all. Not even remotely. If I were uptight you would know it. Your audacity, temerity and brazen is not going to escalate to the point of even getting me miffed. I quite frankly just think you are being a bit obtuse. LoL
But again - Alea iacta est (as it were)
RustyhookerThe troll knows it all bro. Don't waste your skills.
Can you imagine how much it would hurt to get hit in them gyno tits? Damn...
RustyhookerTitty twisters!!!! Lol
Gyno? What gyno?
Slip nipple dripp'n.
RustyhookerProtein from the tapper. Mid workout, refuel. Lol
i8bobis that you?
RustyhookerIt'll be your titties junior. Wanna put on heels and go out cupcakes?
RustyhookerHere's your last post where you got shot down with reality. https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/cycle-advice-%E2...
But you're here again because you didn't HEAR what you wanted. Your stats and brand new trt shows you're no where near max size by simple foods and trt alone.
Why test only??? Read your LAST post! You aren't even going to look into ai or simple test bump. Trt alone with food and exercise DONE PROPERTY would bump you well over 200. Shit, I'm 200 and half a foot shorter. You lean would be what....165?
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/its-not-the-gear
DO NOT READ THIS. ITS OVER YOUR ZONE.
X2...if properly.done....agree
RustyhookerYou got yoked running smart. You're living proof.
Thanks, brother. And, i cant thank EROIDs enough for helping me. This is THE best, and ONLY place in the world for correct info. And, i am glad to be part of an awesome team!!
i8bobmmm sounds like you have some anger sides rusty
Was a perfectly valid question man
But glad you got an opportunity to brag about your size and link to your rant.
I did read your entire rant, there is some good info but even as a beginner I can find holes in it
AAS and test will make you grow without exercise, think teenagers & plenty studies back this up but obviously lifting boosts this substantially otherwise no one here would be wasting so many hours picking up and putting down lumps of metal
RustyhookerTwo posts of stating "I'm gonna do it so eff off". So why even write a post? You obviously have no working knowledge of how the body metabolizes or skills in using gear. It's really a waste of OUR talents and time.
i8bobObviously rusty you're too experienced for my silly questions, maybe you should comment on posts that are on a level with your "talents"
Remember size isn't all about muscles ... sometimes its all in your head little man
Your response did make me laugh out loud, keep working on those talents!
RustyhookerProblem number one is you. Until you learn to manage your estro, you have no skills on exploration.
Why test first? It's obvious! You weren't born producing eq, tren, deca var etc. You were born producing TESTOSTERONE. If you can't manage your manhood, how you think you're going to know the difference in chemicals? Shirt timer on trt, won't simply adjust, won't manage or know estro. You're sunk before you float.
But please post up when gyno hits.
i8bobok, will do... thanks for your input
20 weekers are a big mistake for a first cycle... But since your on TRT, that should not be a problem. In these 9 months you have learned how your body reacts to test, how much a.i. you need to keep estro in check, so honestly I don't see any reason why would an EQ cycle be a problem here.
Someone mentioned that 400mgEQ/pw is a waste. I don't agree. Actually its a perfect starting dose, very well tolerated and you WILL see notable changes to your physique. Obviously you won't see dramatic, rapid changes... but thats not what EQ is for anyways... Don't forget to get regular blood checks during these 20 weeks and donate blood if needed.
Keep away from orals tho, var being "mild" on the liver is a MYTH, it is still very harsh and unless your competing there is absolutely no need for orals... ever.
i8bobThanks Puchy, appreciate the response.
Slow and steady is just fine with me, may give the tendons and stuff time to keep up.. and I've already grown out of half my wardrobe... going to get expensive if I put on another 20.
Agreed, I get bloods every 2 months or so on TRT
RustyhookerYou obviously have no prior skills with orals
What exactly are "skills with orals"?
I attended many autopsies and dissected livers myself during the course of my training and if anyone here knows what the real consequences of using orals can be, that would be me... everything else is bro science.
i8bobyou obviously have no tact