-5 Dissapointed
Started Test e at 1000mg a week, deca 400mg a week, and anadrol 50mg ED.. For 2 months I didnt move up in weight at all.. Not bodyweight or strentgh.. 3rd month I really started pounding fast food before bed.. Gained 5lbs.. Eventually got up to 230 from 217ish.. For a second cycle, I think I should have gained way more weight than this in the first 2 months.. So then I dropped the deca and drol and just did test for another 2 months, and on month 5 I dropped it to 500mg.. Now pcting.. Current weight 225..
Next cycle, Im going with a test prop because all the eth did to me was puff my face up and SLOWLYYYYYYYY build strength and weight.. Anyways, this is what its going to look like..
Weeks 1-8
Anabolics
Testosterone Propionate – 100mg/EOD
Equipoise – 200mg/Monday/Thursday
Trenbolone Acetate – 100mg/EOD
Liquid Anadrol – 25mg/ED Weeks 1-4
Weeks 9-16
Anabolics
Testosterone Propionate – 100mg/EOD
Equipoise – 200mg/Monday/Thursday
Masteron Propionate – 100mg/EOD
Liquid Turanibol – 25mg/ED Weeks 9-12
Weeks 17-20
Testosterone Propionate – 100mg/EOD
Anavar – 50mg/ED Weeks 17-20
Weeks 1-20
Exemestane - 25mg ED
I dont care about gaining 30-40lbs on the scale, I want to see my muscle and muscle maturity improving as well as my physique.. I formulated this cycle myself with plenty of research.. What are some of the experienced users thoughts..
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tread-mI think what I see, and I've read the whole thread here, you're not learning your compounds. This is a classic case of someone who has 1000 questions every cycle they do from now on. What I mean is by cycle 10 I think you are still asking many questions about compounds and that because you got in too big of a hurry and never learned their effect on you.
So sure, maybe you find a magic cycle that does a lot of what you want and just sort of stick with it "generally" getting to a place you can live with. You will still have a very hard time being able to manipulate your body very specifically because you never took time to learn the effects of compounds and slowly learn the effects of different combinations.
Such as a competitor learning his "personal" carb load needs pre-contest. If you don't experiment you may never find your own personal sweet spot because you are using something Joe had luck with. The guy that plays with different loads from contest to contest and learns what his own place is will be more successfull because he is actually taking the time to learn specific effects of certain foods on his own body. He learns through trial and error which protocols may bloat him molre and which fill him cleaner etc etc.
My point is, there may be a 2 compound combo that has this insane effect on you even though it did very little for me but you never find it because you threw too many compounds at the wall looking for answers and the fast track not only didn't allow you to find that, you end up more comfused over time and catch yourself running more and more compounds and missed out on the magic in learning yourself really well.
You are on 3rd cycle brother with 7 compounds, yes you will have "some" success and the doses are not ridiculous but to me 3rd round this should be a simple 16 week EQ run with a cut closer 1 oral maybe and prop kicked. A shit ton of room for success if you know your way around the kitchen. The other thing is just that, learning "you" in the kitchen. Again, you may know 10 people that diet is working for but for you it needs tweak. Its hard to learn those tweaks with 7 compounds and know it was the tweak that helped , or was it th combo of 3 of these compounds, or 4 or 2 or a combination of 2 and diet or a change in diet and none of them or or or...see where I'm Going? If I give you a combination lock with one number on it, you will figure it out pretty quick, if it has 2, you will eventually crack it, 3 becomes near impossible and "7" is impossible. You can crack it by adding one number at a time but adding numbers the way you are, everything you do now is a guess.
AnonFirst off, thank you for an educated and thoughtful response. I understand everything your saying. Are you saying just an EQ and PROP cycle for 16 weeks should suffice? Oral to kick start or not?
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.Permalinktread-mPretty close. If you don't want all the pins run a prop kick for 4 sweeks on a test E and Eq run and run prop 17-18 after the longs drop closing it all with var maybe as the oral 14-18. Kitchen in the right place the run has plenty of room for gains and then clean it up in the close for some cut time to solidify the cycle.
AnonI dont mind all the pinning.. I didnt like the long estered test because it took until about week 9 until my weight started to go up and my strength.. The first 2 months was nothing.. And then I just got water retention like a motherfucker.. Thats why I was thinking prop.. I dont mind the frequency with prop..
Is it essential to do every other day sticks or could I get away with Monday/Wednesday/Friday? Should I shoot 100mg or 150mg? And for the Eq, should I dose it at 400 or 600?
tread-mNo brother eod is as far out as you want with prop. Best study I have seen done on many subjects has the prop half drop like a lead balloon at 48 hrs. This means even eod is not perfection in balance but close. Now. Ed being half the half life is actually absolute perfection to the degree we can find perfection in balance. Balance is important for a lot of reason but estro is possibly the most important. Flucuation in test will insure flucuation in estro/shbg, its an absolute. So I'll give you a little tip I use if you want to go eod as opposed to ed. When I roll eod I often will pull a quarter ml of test E in each pin with the prop. So let's sat 150 eod prop and 60 E in with it. This will actually help the balance in test without the last minute major flucuation in test at the 48 hr mark. This might be my minimum (150) in this stack keeping in mind prop has the 48 hr half and you don't count its value for the entire week since it won't last a week. My actual preference for you is to hit 100 ed prop and 200 Eq every other hit. That can be less if you like but the sweet spot will be between 400 and 600. This is all kitchen brother and expect your best benefit late in the run if dialed in. Can still make nice lean gains whole ride but you can't expect 30 lbs here if you want to do some recomp, harden and bf hold/reduce. I don't mind that at all though, I'd much rather have 10 or 12 lbs of ripped ass quality when you finsih than have 10 good and 20 bad. Its like golf, you drive for show and putt for doe. So in this case, show would be just pounding down cals without descrimination but if you were to descriminate and treat this as a putt then its clean and precise, nice recomp, quality gains and some solid muscle when its over. Its up to you of course, if you don't mind waiting on the bf cut later then you keep the carbs rockin, drag those cals in high, plenty of protein and gain more expecting a little crap you plan on cleaning up later. Now as to your holding a ton of water before, the same is absolutely possible with prop if not dialed in. Dialed in being lim.iting salt intake, drinking a ton of water to force water off the body and have a proper AI protocol rolling. If you do that, I don't care what you run the water will stay away. We are all different so the water intake and AI protocol etc will be different for each of us.
AnonHoly shit? Dude you deserve a round of applause.. I cant thank you enough for your help and input.. Thats a lot of good info in that.. Thanks man
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkTHE MOST OVER LOOKED NOT GETTING 9-10 HRS OF SLEEP AND EATING MEGA AMOUNTS OF FOOD
AnonIm getting all the sleep I can.. I get to sleep in most days.. And I attached my current diet to a comment below
AnonIs this a little friendlier to my receptors guys?
Weeks 1-14
Anabolics
Testosterone Propionate – 100mg/EOD
Equipoise – 200mg/Monday/Thursday
Masteron Enanthate– 100mg/Monday/Thursday
Turanibol Suspension – 50mg/ED Weeks 1-4
Arimidex - .5mg/EOD
Weeks 15-16
Testosterone Propionate – 50mg/EOD
Arimidex - .5mg/ED
Weeks (1-PCT)(Meaning, Im running my peptides from start to after my PCT.. Thats not my pct below)
Peptides
GHRP 6 – 100-150mcg/3xDay
CJC 1295 – 100-150mcg/3xDay
the answer isnt more, its whether the juice you were running was any good, its your training, its your diet. Lets start there, post your diet, calorie intake, meals, shakes, and then your training, muscle groups per day, sets and reps...You want help then post it up so we can help you cause something aint right and your looking in the wrong place for the solution.
AnonM1 – 1c Egg Whites, 1/2c Oats w/1TBSP Honey, 1 Bagel w/Cream Cheese, 2 White Cheddar Rice Cakes, 100g Pineapple, 6oz Orange Juice (986 Cal, 160 Carb, 15 Fat, 49 Protein)
TRAIN
M2 – (Post Workout) 16oz Gatorade, 1 Scoop Whey, 4 White Cheddar Rice Cakes, 2 Packs Apple/Cinnamon Oats (670 Cal, 117 Carb, 8 Fat, 33 Protein)
M3&4 – 5oz 99/1 Ground Turkey, 14oz Potato, Veggies (526 Cal, 77 Carb, 3 Fat, 42 Protein)
M5 – 2c Skim Milk, 3 Scoops True Mass (802 Cal, 100 Carb, 17 Fat, 63 Protein)
M6 – 1c Egg Whites, 1c Oats w/1 TBSP Honey, 1 TBSP Olive Oil (616 Cal, 71 Carb, 20 Fat, 37 Protein)
Middle Night – 1 Scoop Syntha 6 (200 Cal, 15 Carb, 6 Fat, 22 Protein)
4326 Cal, 617 Carb, 71 Fat, 289 Protein
Training, I train instinctively.. I hit each bodypart once a week.. I lift heavy with my compounds, 6-9 reps.. And isolation movements are done 8-15 reps.. I usually do between 12-20 sets depending on my energy levels for each muscle group..
Anonyou need more protein that a cup of egg whites, you also need to include some yolks in that they have some really good qualities that are essential to good nutrition. get rid of the gatorade, rice cakes and bagels. it all turns into simple sugars, you want complex carbs that take time to digest. You are missing good fats, fats are essential for functioning, especially for your brain ;-) ... you should be trying to get around 40grams or protein per meal
I'd mix up heavy lifting with lighter volume training to keep your muscles guessing, they adapt fairly quickly to what we throw at them and in order for growth to occur you need to keep them from adapting to your work outs.
as for you cycle did I read 7 compounds??? really? That's just a big fat no for a third (?) cycle? or any cycle for that matter.. what exactly are your goals for this cycle?
AnonThat meal with the gatorade and all that is literally my post workout.. I eat that within half hour of my training session..
Goals are to gain lean muscle.. I want to stay tighter this offseason instead of gaining 30lbs of flabbery..
Agreed! protien intake isnt nearly enough, for his goals ATLEAST 3 meat meals should be in place, thats the first thing I noticed. Calorie intake should be higher, or adjusted if gains arent being made. Sets seem a little low for being on cycle, 12 is not nearly enough, 20 is about my bottom, and for many muscles such as chest, back, and legs I can get 40....OP what lab was your gear?
Anonhttp://www.musculardevelopment.com/articles/nutrition/3709-anabolic-eati...
My diet is based off of those macros. I've done 300, 350g protein diets before.. It just bloats me.. I've lowered my meat intake from 8-9oz of cooked meat 4 times a day to 4.5 oz twice a day and havent lost any weight in the change because I brought my carbs up.. And I'm able train with higher intensity now with the added carbs..
so your saying meat bloats you?
AnonYeh, big time.. I can take carbs down like its nothing, my body just digests that super fast.. Meat though is different, that shit sits in my stomach and I'm still full when its time to eat my next meal.. So I dropped my meat intake, and increased my protein from other sources..
And by bloat, I mean bloating of the stomach and keeping me full longer making it harder to get in all the calories necessary..
So what should my protein intake be? And what should my total calorie intake be?
yeah thats the problem with bulking, always feeling full and still eating, it makes me feel like throwing up sometimes, but I cant imagine a quality gain with out meat. I need to be constantly digesting food and giving the body the essential amino's to grow. .. I cant remember for sure but I think its 2grams per 1lb of body weight. as for calorie intake? well if you aint gaining then you need to eat more, its a pretty simple formula, if 4200 aint doing it and 500. Whether im on or off cycle I pinch myself everyday and monitor BF% based on feeling, if your putting on to much BF then drop carbs or lower calorie intake. theres formulas, guys on here do them but I aint doing no comps and keeping it simple works for me!
AnonThats what I usually do.. Wait for my abs to start totally disappear then clean up a little for a couple weeks trying to maintain that weight..
AnonWell each persons body responds to different volumes.. The high volume did nothing for me.. So Im more of a HIT guy.. Dont remember the lab name off the top of my head.. Wasnt anything from the internet though..
Up your dose mate you should be taking 400 mg of drol per day when i had a crk with bruce banner tuva day he said he runs 9 g of test and 800 mg per day of drol and allways makes sure to add 12 over steroids into the mix if anything your underdosen yourself up it mate and srt your act owt.up the cal intake by 15000 per day try donna kebab with a side mix of lard some great fats there mate.
Anonlol nice
Do you think everyone on this site is stupid thats your second cycle ? you smashed take aways and put 5 pounds on ? Adrol for 2 month yea if you want your liver to fall out your arse and up to Gz of aas on seceond cycle then you say people are juiced up and not giving you good advice lol you are a Troll and a funny one at dat or you are plain STUPID i never insult a person on here no matta how stupid a comment is but it is clear you are a wind up merchant...and as for my last comment about bruce banner (Hulk) and what he told me this is not for the faint hearted.
AnonI have no idea what that means.. you look like a troll in your picture, your definitely an internet tough guy.. Just ask me where I live so you can come take care of this problem.. or keep yappin over the internet
I am not looking to piss you off but come on did you see your post...
AnonI see it.. I lift with an ifbb pro, and thats what he started me out on.. Yeh I know, hes a dumbass, he doesnt know what hes talking about.. Well, he has his pro card and thats a lot more of a credential than a fucking score next to your username on a forum..
The forum is a place to come to if you have questions or need advice right? Or is it to shit talk and put people down? But like I told irish85, theres a lot of internet tough guys.. You people live on these forums.. My life isnt on this forum and im definitely not getting pissed off because someone hops on here not knowing how to run a proper cycle asking for advice..
For your second cycle SECOND CYCLE your ifbb pro (LIES FROM YOU) set you on that did he tell you to pound the fast food to ?also did he advise burger king maybe even your local hot dog stand or was it the ronald mcdonald special the happy meal sounds like it would suit you 29 my arse wt a joke... You run 1000 mg of test 400 mg of deca 50 mg of drol per day and you run it for 5 month or longer we dnt even know how long you ran test at 500 mg on 5th month for i know and went to school with a pro body builder and he allways told me first 3 cycles would be great just to run test at 500 mg per week 2nd or 3rd cycle add dbol no more than that he also says NEVER run a cycle if your diet is not perfect or if you think you dnt have the will power to stick at it or if your gna slip into eating fast food then in no way are you ready for steroids also never start adding loads of compounds into your cycling earlie on learn how each one effects you.also i am not a internet tough guy everything i say here i would say to you if i ever visted you creche or kinder-garden and dnt shit on the karma system next to a persons name on here its earned by giving good advise and not by talking shit.
Anonall of these comments have been pretty much shit talking.. so cant help to respond! ;-)
People use the phrase "Have you smoked yourself retarded?" In this case "Have you injected yourself retarded?" By the way I think you forgot to add a few more compounds into this "awesome" cycle! You want to see muscle maturity??? Your understanding on how to do anything correctly is immature. First of all diet and training yields results...I worked my ass off building a solid mature foundation before I even thought about touching AAS! Using these compounds to heavily lean on and having these expectations it will build a body to what you want to accomplish is what's the problem! You obviously have NONE of the fundamentals down to even begin with. And make sure you keep pounding down that fast food since you "gained" 5 pounds WOW that's sooo amazing I wish I could gain weight eating FAST-FOOD!...if that's all you're concerned about you won't have a problem gaining weight that route! You are the epitomy of an immature AAS user giving all AAS users a bad name!
AnonIm not talking about life choices and who works there asses off and who doesnt. I asked what I could do to change or better that cycle. No doubt in my mind that I couldnt go head to head with you on a leg or a back day. I think I have all the fundamentals down except the juice part, thats why I come here to speak with all you juice kings.. And I'm the epitomy of an immature AAS user, and your just sitting back acting like a complete ass avoiding all the questions and doing nothing to help. I thought thats what the forums are for.
Sorry bud....my bad on the angry rant! Next time I suggest you submit your cycle for review to set up a good cycle for your specific goals you want to get out of it. It's much easier to deal with instead of going lone wolf and then running into problems later on as you have. All the best on your future cycles...looks like the other members are getting you squared away!
ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS.... STOP THIS CYCLE DEAD IN ITS TRACKS... ALL THIS WILL DO IS FUCK YOU UP BIG TIME!
I see zero bout diet or training... just 7 compounds ripping my eyes out.
AnonI posted my diet and training on a "reply" comment above.. You can check it out there
zewihe is all kinds of fucked. simple as that..
Ryu was a charachter in street fighter right!... just trying to build a picture in my mind of this guys goals... thats all!
Supernova283Ryu just means dragon in Japanese. Ryu styles of martial arts are taught quite a bit.
Takenouchi-ryu is a style of jiujitsu which I incorporate my arm grapples from.
Although you're probably right. He probably meant the street fighter.
Thanks bro... i just remembered that name from playing the game years back with my boy.
Anon?
StevebWow and now you want to do prop with eq and tbol at the end of the cycle. You're just full of great ideas for cycles.
"I formulated this cycle myself with plenty of research" <--- Are you messing with us?
AnonAnd you answered none of the questions above. Great information.
zewiOMG i could ragei hate seeing this(its cause i care).. This was all wrong everything has been wrong 5months??? did you even take time off from your first cycle and run a PCT? Your next cycle is wrong, your Diet must be off. Sounds like everything has just been wrong.. No wonder you're not getting the gains you're looking for.
WHAT ARE YOUR STATS????????
AnonThis was the pct protocol I followed after my first cycle..
Nolvadex – 20mg/ED for 6 weeks
HCG – 500IU/ED for 3 weeks
Vitamin E – 1000IU/ED for 3 weeks
This is the pct I ran after my second cycle.
Clomid – Wk 1 – 200mg/ED, Wk2 – 100mg/ED, Wk3 – 50mg/ED, Wk4 – Wk6 – 25mg/ED
Nolvadex - Wk 1 – 60mg/ED, Wk2 – Wk 3 - 40mg/ED, Wk4 – Wk10 – 20mg/ED (980MG for all 10 weeks)
Exemestane – Wk 1 – Wk 4 – 25mg/ED, Wk 5 – Wk 9 – 25mg/EOD
IGF – 1 – Wk 1 – 100mcg/ED, Wk 2 – 80mcg/ED, Wk 3 – Wk 4 – 60mcg/ED, Wk 5 – 40mcg/ED, Wk 6 – Wk 7 – 20mcg/ED
I got a blood panel done 6 weeks into my pct after my second cycle and nothing abnormal.. So I stopped when I found that out.. Been off and trying to figure out what I need to do to grow now..
5'8", 225, 15%..
Your pct protochols show no research. you fix everything by throwing every drug on the cabinet plus a vitamin in the mix. You need 6 MONTHS OFF. If bloods are clear after 6 months......then prepare a correct healthy cycle.
Anonhow many months off do bodybuilders take? and if bloodwork says everything is fine, do you still wait till your 6 month mark?
Receptors only handle soo much. :(. Second cycles are usually easy/fun all grow no worries.....but....this happens
Supernova283Psh what do you know. This cycle looks great.
Maybe a little low on tren, and could use a couple more orals. I think his problem is that he's not pumping enough gear into his system.
(Jk)
Your good at research....can you post the links here for....time on/time off......pct.......receptor downdrade.....how to properly run a cycle.
Thank you!
Supernova283I don't really think endocrinology knowledge is better than the knowledge of someone who's actually run cycles and had experience trying to start back up their HPTA.
Since AAS are only used really for TRT they aren't really taught much about cycles and how they affect your HPTA. Studies aren't done. Best knowledge would be from someone like yourself who has actually run cycles.
As for receptor downregulation because the testosterone receptors are inside the lipid bilayer and not on the surface the receptors are probably refreshed through cell apoptosis and cell mitosis, however it's not studied so hard to tell for certain.
A more likely explanation of why gains start to become limited after a while is your bodies adaptation to the cycle. See your body only wants to put on as much muscle as it believes is entirely necessary. It's built for survival. A common protein most people know about is myostatin, which regulates the adding of muscle and fat for survival purposes.
There are most likely other variables, but once you've been in a constant state for a certain amount of time your body is going to adapt and try and limit muscle gains to what it believes is only entirely necessary.
Once again though there isn't too much research being done on the effects of steroids on the human body because it's illegal to do so.
So really there are probably a few good endocrinologists who specialize in HPTA restoration and they might have published a paper or two on it, but I've never seen anything on it.
All my PCT knowledge just comes from the drug effects themselves and anecdotal evidence.
AnonThanks for taking the time out to write this. Helpful info.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkYou cyvled 5 months for second with all the wrong gear....and your third cycle is just wrong all the way round. 5mo +4wks pct =6months OFFCYCLE. SMH!!