posted Mon, 05/15/2017 - 11:24
3743
-1 Deca + TBol + TestE
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Thinking of this cycle from June:
1-14 Test E @ 200 mg/w
1-14 Deca @ 400 mg/w
1-4 Tbol @ 40mg ED
1-14 anastrozole @ 250mcg ED
PCT:
13-14 hcg @ 200mg E3D
16-20 toremifene @ 40/20/20/20mg ED
16-20 clomiphene @ 75/50/25/25mg ED
I've run two cycles with Test + Dbol but it had bad sides on my hairline (haven't used finasteride). Hence, this time I want to minimize androgenic side effects, therefore the small amount of Test.
Are there some other side-effects besides limp noodle that I'm not aware of because of stacking Deca with such a small amount of Test?
male, 80kg, 180cm, 25y, 15% bf
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You don't have a base and you don't eat right! Lack of proof on your end posting valid info that has been asked plus pic proves you're not serious enough to continue with AAS.
We've provided suggestions regarding safety of AAS and all you do is push in the opposite direction and debate the issue. It's obvious that your lack of experience is keeping you in the dark....
Fucking twiglett!
Forum protocol is stats and cycle history at minimum before any cycle advice/ co-sign.
People will start getting publicly called out and negged by us exp members if protocol is breached!
Come on guys!
Especially some in here that are very good knowledgable members, remember peeps will try anything to get co-sign including lie.
Safety first!!!!!
Tbol usage: Limp
adex usage: Wrong
hcg usage: Limp as fcuk
pct: Wrong
age: Wrong for AAS
weight: Eat something
Hair loss: What hair? Say buh bye!
Advices like this are not very helpful if you don't elaborate them more. I researched all substances, but there are lots of contradictory opinions and only very limited number of proper studies. I can imagine you have much more experiences with AAS than me and I appreciate your response, but saying "fcuk" or "Say buh bye" does not give your advice much credibility.
Well....... actually advice like that is, although short and curt, very much so to the point, and something that should light a fire in you to find out why someone thinks so poorly of your so called well researched plan
Re: your queries....
Tbol usage: Weak drug, not necessarily suited to bulking and if used that way needs longer cycle, it is not good for front loading. Should be taken twice daily due to half life
adex usage: You dont need to start so early and might not need a huge amount of ai with such low doses, doing so per your plan will crash your estro, most likely
hcg usage: A better protocol would see hcg used far more effectively through out the cycle as well at the end, albeit at higher doses and you should cycle it during the cycle.
pct: Too short, you will still be on cycle after 4 weeks, do some research on the half lives of your compounds
age: In fact brain development finishes somewhere around 25/26. Therefore regardless of the general eroids consensus (just another generalisation and status quo of sorts) 27 is the safer age to start. Most people...... most people are uneducated idiots, dont be like most people, most people will get you into trouble
Hair loss: You are predisposed to losing your hair. You will accelerate this by any AAS usage
Weight: I respect Keto and am a practitioner, but not for bulking. You need to learn about cyclical bulking I would suggest. If you are not willing to do a bulk properly without AAS then you have no right doing so with AAS. I highly recommend upping the protein (min 20g per normal meal and 40g pre/perri/post work out meals (plural) and carbs (pre/perri/post workout and post workout again in the anabolic window). Keto derived fat adaption is the most powerful tool to leverage for retaining/resetting insulin sensitivity, therefore using it for cyclical bulking is excellent. Muscles PREFERENTIALLY use carbs as fuel during/post high intensity workout (3-4 hours pwo), not fat, so 25-30g aint remotely close to enough. You need to wort your nutrition approach, and again this is absolutely not to diss Keto, I love it, its just about doing things optimally and feeding the body what it needs when it needs it.
Again, advice/comment like that is very helpful if you are mature enough to take it on the chin and figure out where you are going wrong. You should not necessarily expect me or anyone to overly elaborate, although I have somewhat here. You should do a hell of a lot more research. Thinking my comments have no credibility because you got offended a little, is a little silly really.
But anyway, in terms of researching a bit more, do take a look at the half lives of all compounds to program a PCT protocol, do some more research into HCG, doses protocols etc. (its such a valuable tool), research the AI's - maybe take a look at the TRT ai horror stories, or the weekly crashed estro symptoms threads here on eroids (when the lads go get bloods and confirm estro is through the floor) so also research proper usage of ai's doses, when to start (somewhere around 1 month into a cycle)
You should also make a plan for bloods to be done pre-cycle and then maybe at 6 weeks into the cycle
All that said... you really need to sort your food approach first and to achieve the max weight you can naturally before cycling again.
RustyhookerYou just cosigned a 170pound skinny guy....why?
Don't make a drama here over the weight, I am 185 normally, training 4 years. The ~177 is just because I'm currently on keto. I was 195 lbs on cycle.
Still waiting for your pic and cal/mac plan...
That's a terrible excuse
If you couldn't retain muscle when switching back to keto, it means you didnt have it
Keto is, in fact, muscle sparing!
RustyhookerYa...right. no worries, youll be 177 again in 4 months because you cant eat right
Not sure, I think I got lulled into it
SMH @ myself
RustyhookerWell, this will be his 4th cycle and....he'll be back for more. Still wont weight as much as my bowel movement...lol
No shit!!!
LMAO
3rd, previous two were just Test E 400mg/w + 20mg/d Dbol kickstart first 4 weeks.
RustyhookerAnd you're still boney skinny? Hmmm.....
Thanks for your time, good answer.
1) I'll split Tbol tables, the 40mg ED I mentioned is the total amount. The same with Deca - two times a week for 200mg (= 400 mg/w total). But why do you think TBol is not good as a kickstarter?
2) In my previous cycle (Test 500 mg/w) I started with 0.25mcg E2D, but had to increase to ED. So you are probably right that the dosage is too high if I'm taking only 200 mg Test this time -- I'll start with E2D again and will see how it goes.
3) I will research HCG more. I have used it the same way in previous cycle and recovery was good (no Deca, though).
4) I already mentioned it in some other post, I'll take last Deca injection two weeks before last Test injection.
5) I'm planning to get blood test next week.
No worries, any time
1.Do the test and deca together twice per week e3.5 days to stabilise plasma levels of both
Tbol is good but it is a weaker compound than say dbol which i know you dont want to run of course. This said, it is good at binding to shbg and upping free test, which is something to perhaps do later in the cycle when test levels are at steady state
Personally, I think something like prop is the best way to frontload, but thats totally subjective and based on different test usage
2. Its hard to know right now. Deca will swamp the receptors, so that 200mg of test.... who knows, might convert to estro, might not, might be enough receptors, keep a close eye, but it should be about 4 weeks before estro creeps
3. Yes, look whatever works for you, lots dont bother using it and it can effect estro too, but with a long enough deca cycle, I really recommend doing hcg during the cycle too, just to keep the diesel engines primed for a good recovery. 19nors are very suppressive so keeping the boys inflated will only help you, you could do a mini course every 4 weeks or so, but if you let them deflate, Id be running a couple of weeks into the PCT to really inflate them and get them firing before the PCT drugs kick in - however, do the maths if considering that, as Tor pct takes 4-6 weeks to actually hit steady state, not sure how your front load will effect it, best to do the maths
4. test e half life is 10.3 days, takes 5 half lifes to get rid of a drug = 51.5 days - so your PCT should cover this time from last shot and last about ~5.5 weeks
5. Great, thats brilliant.
What makes you think the OP is ready for nandrolone decanoate?
Deca is not a good move!! I would think limp noodle is enough but yes there are other sides.Like permanent damage.
Does the recovery from Deca takes longer simply because it's a longer ester or is there some other reason (like the prolactin)? Is it more probable to permanently damage HPTA from Deca than let's say Test? Are there some studies for this? Thanks.
I can't speak for everyone but I only did it once and that enough.Makwa could give you better advice but at you age and size I personally would stay away from all 19 nors.I got deca dick and it lasted a long time even though I was on test.I never got leaky tits so I don't think it was a prolactin issue,I can't say for sure but I was cured from deca use!!!That part I do know!!
Deca metabolites are active for weeks after last injection, that's why the recovery takes so long. I think I will do last Deca injection 2 weeks before last Test injection for better recovery.
Exactly. And alot of dudes finish pct before deca has even cleared system. Very long ester and the build up is huge.
You've been here long enough to know you need full stats. And, i know you didnt dig that cycle you posted up from here on Eroids.
Thanks for noticing. I've added the stats.
Much appreciated...thank you, sir
I see so many things wrong here I'm not even sure where to start. But honestly I don't even want to give you advice because you're so underweight that you don't need any gear. You need calories, that's all you need. You should be at least 20 pounds heavier before you even consider adding in gear. Because let's be honest for a minute here.... after you run the cycle what do you think you'll look like? A beast? No. You're going to look like you're all natural and at your height and weight you might not even look like you work out. I'm not insulting you I'm just stating the facts. Don't put your body at such a young age through all that abuse just to avoid eating correctly and training hard. Because gear is not going to fix the other areas that you're doing correctly.
Eat. Train. Sleep. Repeat.
Why use deca?
You're 25 for Christ sake!...don't tell me it's to help gain mass blah blah blah....at 180, concentrate on your diet first, because all deca is going to do is bloat you up and shut you down hard my friend...
Personally I think 25 is to young to be using any aas, you still have massive natty potential at this age...that being said, I would suggest to shelf the idea of cycling for now, focus on nutrition and maybe revisit the idea of steroids later, after you pack on another 20 lbs of base muscle...now this advise is free so take it or leave as you wish, but sometimes..sometimes the most valuable things in life are free.....took me damn near 50 yrs to learn this the HARD way
Nor19 have an effect on your hair line also so no matter what you run it will affect it. So cutting your test isn't the best idea. If you do want to run a low test cycle ok but no decca with it. Just run low dose test and tbol.
Then when you think of the stress on your system you might want to just diet and train.
Good luck and good gains
too less test. test is the basic roid u should run higher..epecially when u use a nor-test like deca!
Do you have actual experience from running less Deca than Test or is it just what you read? Because I've read that the 3:2 or 5:4 ratio for tst:deca is a myth from 80s when people did Deca-only cycles. Many people reported great results with minimum sides when they took only TRT amount of Test with Deca.
The general consensus here is we educate and teach safety...we definitely don't debate the issue, either. You can run your steroids safely and efficiently the way we teach, if you're willing to learn. 19 nors are powerful hormones that most individuals don't grasp the concept of the hormone's pharmacology until it's too late. I'm not saying you can't use AAS the way you want, or that there are people out there doing it differently than what we teach on here. What I'm saying is we educate from a safety-conscience perspective....feel free to send me and some other guys FRs if you wish to discuss further in detail!
Glad you're here...post up an unidentifiable pic and your cal/mac plan...
I disagree on that. I usually prefer to run my test lower if I'm using another compound so I can let the other compound do it's job. People thinking they need to run high test with Deca is to avoid deca dick. Which is actually a prolactin issue and has nothing to do with your testosterone level.
RustyhookerBad plan. You need food dude
Edit....5-11 @ 170
Here we go again.....
Someone that's far too light to even be considering a 19-nor. ....
RustyhookerNot sure. Think I'll retreat from this. Lol
I'm currently on keto. During cycle I'm easily on 90 kg.
RustyhookerMight post a picture so the folks can assist. No face pictures. Cops love those. Lol
speaking of faces whats up with the new avatar?
RustyhookerAll the aggro newbs faces when told no. Lol. Its the picture i imagine.
That is not enough of a side effect for you. I guess there is also the side effect of increasing the risk of permanently frying your HPTA running a 19-nor.