posted Thu, 08/21/2014 - 17:58
2697
Dbol acceptable for clean gains?
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Tried test and dbol when I was heavier, 225-240, since then I have shredded down to 185-190. I had terrible moonface before and want to avoid that water retention by all costs, is dbol a recipe for disaster of can it really be used for some nice lean gains? Or do you really lose 75% of your gains. I have used it but I wasn't nearly as lean so it was hard to tell. Hoping now that I'm lean 10 clean pounds of muscle will be drastic, where as I had to put on 20-30 before to make a noticeable difference cause I was heavier. Ik lower sodium and keep e2 in check which both were last cycle.
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I wasn't gonna put my two cents into this thread but finally I think I will. Look if what you mean by "clean gains" is adding pristine dry mass to your physique, dbol is NOT your chemical. Dbol is a "wet" compound. What do you mean GH? It's a magnet for water. But GH, I can control E2, I can watch my diet, I can do this that and the other thing . . . . Yeah, sure. You want a dry bulk - lose the dbol.
I guess I just don't see the point of putting on water weight and size that just goes away when u drop the dbol, besides strength, which I'm not concerned about like I am with size being I rather be a bb, what's the benefit if any to water retention that will just disappear after dbol is dropped?
i just sorta made a post about this somewhere else. I agree with you, the nature of the compound is the water retention (among other things but estro mediated water retention is certainly a main one)
so, understanding/accepting that, if you wanna get the most out of say a dbol kickstart, would using nolva at like 10mg be a better choice than running an AI since it will allow the compound to do its thing with estrogen but will reduce the risk of developing gyno, which is certainly a concern? and if the bloat is really bad (or rather the estrogen levels get too high and are causing other issues), could you run a very low asin dose to bring the estrogen levels down a touch so they become manageable and then drop the nolva and switch to whatever AI when you're done with the dbol?
in terms of getting the most bang for your dbol, does this seem reasonable?
Since u r using it as a kick start for 3-4 weeks the likelihood of gyno or estro issues related exclusively to the dbol is small. I would not use nolva to manage dbol. Since u r on a Test cycle u have an AI in place and if u r taking advice from me or doing what I do on Test cycles, u r taking the AI from day 1 not in 3 or 4 weeks, not when needed, not on hand, but day 1 so the issue with dbol is moot and no, the AI is not gonna make your dbol ineffective. I am not in the club of AIs will reduce your gains, cause problems, etc. AIs are my friend when properly dosed. But GH, if I start my AI day 1, my test plasma level hasn't built up enough and I will crash my estro and my joints will creak and . . . . nonsense. I'm just getting this vibe that because estrogen is essential to growth we should shy away from aromatase inhibitors. I think that thinking has gone a bit too far IMO.
this is really related to the individual and whether they are prone to estro. Some people just dont have problems with estro, I rarely do, but d-bol has brought it on a few times. Over the years there has been a number of gyno related posts from d-bol.
Personally i would have a much higher guesstimate, I would say more like 75-90% chance that if you get estro sides they are exclusively related to d-bol when used as a kick start. especially if you have ran test with no estro problems in the past.
However the use of an AI from day one on a d-bol kick start will make that number decrease dramatically. and maybe that is what gearhead is actually saying here.
"However the use of an AI from day one on a d-bol kick start will make that number decrease dramatically. and maybe that is what gearhead is actually saying here."
^^im retarded, how do you quote people?
anyways, I definitely understand and agree with that, no doubt. I was just wondering if like I said, dbol does its thing largely due to the estrogen mediated water retention, you could use nolva, have your estrogen levels up to where the compound should put them so you get that increased water retention (assuming any sides aren't unbearable) and have the gyno issue addressed. then once its done, hop on whatever AI and continue with the cycle. again, I'm talking about getting the most out of the compound. Im doing my first cycle shortly and its gonna be the usual 500mg test c but just for future reference, would going about it this way be something worth trying? I know its wet gains, some bloating, etc but I powerlift, so I would want to get the most i can out of the compound and I can live with some bloat for a few weeks, it'll go away eventually.
U don't need high estro for dbol to be effective so there is no reason to use a SERM. U keep wanting to play with this so go ahead and play. I'm telling u for the record not to experiment.
AnonPersonally i think u can achieve this goal by just eating clean and good ole fashioned hard work and testosterone simple cycle , hard training and eating good thats it
+2
It's amazing what a ran diet and hard training will do with only 300mg to 400mg test weekly. People get caught into a full 5 compound cycle thinking that's the way. My best gains came from test e an diet hard training and var 4 weeks. Simple and sweet. Diet basically runs it all lol.
Anonyep thats about right... ive ran that same cycle and love it... completely trouble free and good gains and felt awesome the var pumps were off the chain
If your looking for 10lbs then why even bother with the dbol? A test only will give you that if you eat and train properly. If your hell bent on running an oral add Var the last 4 weeks, it gives a nice hard finish. It all comes down to diet,,, eat for your goals and you will get there, Eat fucken french fries and cheeseburgers and you will be a sloppy water filled mess. Also, if your nice and lean now, the dbol would be used as a 4 week kick to the test, once you discontinue use you will start draining the water but still keep some of the size as your plasma levels rise with the test. If you eat right it won't look watery. I can cut on any fucken steroid available, it's all how you eat and train.
Ya I could do that, just looking for lots of muscle but really hate getting moon face. I think a lot of what I thought was moonface was just fat because my face still was almost as big when I got off months later, but I'm 50-60 lbs lighter now and strength is still comparable so I lost a lot of fat
If your that much leaner you will have a totally different experiance. Good luck bro keep the diet clean and you will crush your goals..
TurtleMansToothSodium and e2 will help thr moon face alot but in my experience its the nature of the drug to produce wet gains
Try Tbol or var if you wany leaner gains
I have plenty of tbol that was the original goal due to the drier nature, just got terrible moonface before, but I was deff heavier so it was probably a lot of fat as well not just water because it was still mostly there months after cycle
RustyhookerYou got moon faced on tbol? Its a completely different chemical.
Any tweak made in chemicals and chemistry and the changes are dramatic. Just extra oxygen is the difference between life and death.
H²O vs H²O²
No dbol
RustyhookerAndrogen up top has ya correct.