2ND Ever Cycle Need some advice
I am 40 years old 5'7" 200lbs 23% Body Fat
So I need advice, a buddy of mine has done multiple cycles and helped me with my 1st which was 8 weeks test and winstrol, which worked well for bulking and strength. I didn't realize how much the test would help me so I have stayed on it more of a TRT dose. Well now I have had great muscle gains and some amazing fat lose (was a sloppy 26lbs heavier 18 months ago).
Now I really need to cut the rest of the fat, got the beer gut and love handles that just wont go, the rest of me looks rather built, have had lots of comments, and upped my bench to 335. I have already changed Diet and workout routines a couple times for 10 week periods with little to no results. Currently Eating Vegan (go ahead make fun but I feel great and will still kill a pig to make a football).
So my buddy says that on my diet that I should run a Test, Tren, and winstrol cycle and that should shred the rest off. He is not the healthiest of people so would just like some other input.
Thanks in advance
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Hey sounds like your friend doesn’t really like you if he’s suggesting this to you lol in fact probably wants to get rid of you lol
Would not recommend this route, you’ll heart yourself
Yeah, your friend sounds pretty reckless and somewhat uninformed in my opinion. While it's true that tren well raise your body's core temperature resulting in additional calories being burned, it is not a fat burner by any means and the fat burning properties are negligible unless you are inside of 10% body fat. Plus, it will psychologically mind fuck you like nothing else, throw off your sleep along with a laundry list of other negative side effects. What does your diet and macro breakdown look like? Diet and exercise burns fat and builds muscles, anabolics only aid in the process. But, if diet isn't there you can run any amount of AAS you run well be like multiplying 1,000,000 by 0- even though a huge number is in there the outcome is still nothing.
Btw, are you planning on staying on TRT and/or transitioning to physician managed TRT? Your post sounds like you have adopted the blast and cruise approach (essentially TRT with periodic AAS cycles) but didn't mention your long range plan or if you are ever looking to come off.
I plan on staying on the test for now, my levels are in the high side of the normal range while I am on it but don't know what they are when I'm off. Based off advice I have received here I may come off after the summer and get my natural levels tested. I have a pretty cool Doc who will probably prescribe if I am low.
I eat a vegan diet.
When Bulking
3800 Cal.
195 g protein
180 g Carbs
50 g Fat
Cutting
2650 cal
190 g protien
180 g Carbs
50 g fat
20 g or less of sugar
You mite want to refigure your cals bud.....from what u have posted your only eating 1550 cals in a bulk ( I eat that for bfast ), 1530 cals for your cut.....do you see where this is headed?
Fat is 9cals bubba.
Yes I know... 50 f is 450 cals added to 1080 for c and p .....
P: 195x4=780
C: 180x4=720
F: 50x9=450
T: 1950
;)
Well s&$t fu”k motherf#*k .......I’m 100% wrong! I added 180 + 190 =270... not 370!
I just launched my abacus out the door.... guess I’ll start using a calculator now.....
Thanx for setting me straight pasta!
Op.... my apologies.....i still think you’re not eating enough tho...so how do you like them apples !
Rofl! Not the old trusty abacus!
Ya I messed that up, I updated it in a reply
10-4....
I took it back, you plan on doing a pct, now you are smarter then your fucktwat friend.
Haha, thanks
Are you missing a few calories there? Your bulking diet -- if those are indeed the correct macros you've got listed -- amounts to no more than 1,950 calories. Your cutting cycle (because you added the 20g of sugar) amounts to 2,010 calories. Um...Are you certain you are counting your calories properly?
Edit: I see your error now. You are counting your macros as if they are all about 9 calories--that is simply not the case. Protein and Carbohydrates are only 4 calories each gram, while fat is somewhere around 8.9 calories (I round up to 9) each gram. The cutting diet you have posted actually contains more calories than your bulking cycle, not by much, and even that is not sufficient for a proper bulk. However, you have stated you are wanting to lose body fat. I don't understand why you are not losing weight while you are in a caloric deficit, unless you have some type of medical condition that makes it difficult (i.e. hypothyroidism).
I am assuming your diet is garbage. I don't mean that to be disrespectful, but it is apparent you do not know how to count your calories. If it is not the diet, what does your cardio look like? If your cardio is solid, have you had your thyroid levels checked out by a doctor?
I see my error, cals are right macros are off. Was going off memory, I will post with correct numbers.
Thanks for the help
Take it from someone around the same age. Dont fuck with tren. It is not a fat burner and if he says so dont listen. I ran a blast of it for strength abd the sides just arent worth it. And has ge mentioned any AI or DA?
The best thing you can do is research everything so you know what is best for you. Read the good and bad. You not him needs to understand how these compounds can affect your body and when they do you need to know how to treat anything that comes up.
Well said..I didn't even catch the AI part..+1
Don’t listen to that buddy. If he wants to endanger his own health fine but he shouldn’t be encouraging others to do the same. The bros got you on some good advice below.
Don't take tren bro.. that is an advanced gear... as far a the trt part goes bro if you don't need trt you should come off and pct ASAP man.. you don't want to shut yourself down for long like that if your natural test is good.. plus you will build a tolerance like anything else.. if you want your cycles to go good come off and diet and train for a while naturally so a low test cycle works..I say this a lot but I try to keep my doses of anything as low as possible.. more is not always better.. just my opinion.. good luck brother
Ya I am starting to consider that, Thanks
What method was used to test your bf bro just curious and also how long have you been on including the trt dose
Used calipers and the Hand thing at the gym, Averaged out to 23% been doing the trt dose for 16mo
You have been on cycle for 16 months. Probably have now fried your HPTA for good and will actually need real TRT for the rest of your life. If you don't want to be a lifer with pin, you need to do a power PCT ASAP and hope you can reboot.
U should come off bro..pct with clomid nolva and hcg and pray you didn't fuck your natty test production up man.. that's a very long time if you don't need trt... pct wait a while pull blood to see if it's back in normal range... it's important to pull blood on this one man I can't stress that enough
How long should he wait after pct to check his levels to see if he rebooted or not
I'd say about 6 weeks or so.. if you test to soon you can get false high readings from clomid hcg etc...6 or8 weeks should be good in my opinion..
Thanks heavymetalmonst...
No problem brother
I just know i get the visual disturbances from the clomid for a month on a long pct 6 weeks
So im assuming it would still have levels raised a bit
OK so I think I have all that stuff, bought it awhile ago and don't remember which pills are which, also don't remember the dose and schedule for the HCG, I think I can figure the pills out though. So I should wait 4 weeks after last pin of test to start PCT?
*edit
I am taking Sus 250
Honestly I've never used sus but from what I have read it's about3 weeks from last pin to start of pct.. So 21 days.. again I'd do some research because I can't speak from personal experience.. I'm a test e or p guy...as far as your pct goes I start hcg the day after my last pin and run 500 for 10 days straight.. other guys might run1000 every other day.. it's personal preference... now if it was me I'd run clomid and nolva for 5 or 6 weeks since u been on so long... it would look like this
Clomid 100/100/50/50/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20/10
Hopefully that gets ya started back up bro
Dominick77In all honesty mate, I would get your BF and weight down before you jump back on anything. Have you had blood work done to see what they look like after you ran Test and winstrol? So what you are saying is, you did Test and Winstrol for 8 weeks, then you self prescribed yourself a TRT dose of test thereafter? What is the TRT dose you are currently on? Your buddy is not very knowledgeable with his suggestion of you running Test, Tren and Winstrol for your 2nd cycle.
6 weeks after I stopped the winstrol and stayed on test I had blood done and my test levels were in the high side of the normal range don't remember exact numbers I could look it up, but that's why I stayed on it.
Sustonan 250 1/2 ml every 3 days was twice that on cycle
And my BF% is misleading I am pretty big and cut, just got that nasty spare tire
Just curious what method was used to test your bf..
Calipers and the stupid hand thing at gym, Calipers said 20% and thing at Gym said 26% so I averaged it to 23
Honestly your probably around 20.. how many points was the caliper test... look into the bodpod bro it's super accurate.. it's hard to dial in diet with out exact numbers trust me I've tried... if the only spot u tested with the calipers was your core the numbers might be off. .u need at least3 points. . core quads chest as an example. . Heres a good calculator
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/your-body-fat-percentage-how-its-measur...
He's a dumbass .
Well if your getting no results then your doing something wrong , diet or training .
You need to drop more bodyfat before even considering a cycle .
x2 on the buddy being a fuckhole.
OP, what is your TDEE? Drugs don’t dictate gains, diet does. If the diet isn’t working for you, then you need to re-evaluate it, not add more compounds hoping for magic to happen.
TDEE is 3030, went to 2650 calories when I was cutting and 3800 (195 grams protein) when bulking, had good results at those numbers.
5 days a week in the gym, my lifts are good and I work hard, My BF% is misleading I am cut and have had great gains from last bulk, just got a spare tire thats refusing to go away.
Post up a pic if you’re comfortable with it.
What was the breakdown of that cutting cycle? From being vegan I’m assuming your diet should be lean, but may be a bit to heavy on carbs. Spare tires are the most stubborn of fat, but again AAS will do nothing to remove fat off of you. How much cardio are you getting in and in what state?
Cut cycle was
2650 Cal
180 grams Carbs
190 grams Protein
50 grams Fat
20 grams or less of sugar
6 meals a day most Carbs and fruit were consumed before noon
Gym Mon-Fri weight training for 1.5 hours and 30 min of Cardio with heart rate at 125-135
I will post a pic when Im home in a couple hours
I’ll wait for the pic. Going off this post why not cut out the carbs some more, to around 100 or less per day and increase the fats to compensate? What was your eating schedule like? Try adding in a fasting period where you consume all your meals in x amount of hours and the rest you’re fasted for roughly 12-16 hrs.
I’d also recommend doing up to an hour of cardio in a fasted state first thing in the AM, best state to do cardio in because of your body’s depletion from fasting overnight, and the effects of doing so last well into the day.
Just throwing out suggestions. You may also want to browse throug Makwa’s posts and you’ll get some good insight into effective fat loss from him.
Look at his macros more closely--it only amounts to 2,010 calories. Something isn't jiving...
Interesting catch! Just did the math myself and you’re right. I’m thinking maybe he accidentally posted the cutting macro layout twice?
That's what I thought, but you'll notice his cutting diet contains more calories than his bulking diet.
It’s definitely strange. He’d need another 463g of carbs to hit 3800cals.
Something isn’t quite adding up for me here.
Yeah, I see my error. I have the diet layout on my Home PC and was going off the top of my head. I can say the Calories are correct, I will double check the macros, and again I appreciate all this help. Definitely changing my mind on a few things
No problem, figured something was amiss. Just edit it back in with the correct breakdown when you can.
OK got my numbers, sorry my wife put it together as well as hers and I was confusing our numbers. My cut cycle may seem high in cals and carbs but I have a very active job during the day and a part time job at night with 2 hours at Gym in between so I burn a lot of calories without the gym time.
Cut
2650 Cal
258 Carb
258 protein
65 g fat
Bulk
3750 Cal
330 carb
270 protein
150 g fat
Thank you for the advice, I will get the pic up today