16 Weeks -Test.Deca.D.bol - With gel?
33 yrs old
about 10% bf
225lbs
Goals: 10-15lbs muscle mass
Add 30-40lbs to bench
Add 2 inches to arms.
Dead lift is 605lbs and Squat 545lbs so I'm going to mainly focus on the upperbody and keep heavy squats and DL days to 1x month only. (still doing each bodypart 6x a month)
Been on TRT for a few years but recently went off for 6 months - (ran HCG for 4 weeks then DAA, Clomid etc and had test up to 500 until just last week when it dropped to 300)
Week 1-16 Deca 300mg/week
Week 1-16 Test E 250mg/week (Every Monday)
Week 1-18 Test Gel - 90mg/week (30mg/day Thurs.Fri.Sat or as needed)
Week 1-4 D-bol 15mg/day
Week 18-22 HCG 1000-1500iu per day
Week 22-28 Clomid 100,100,100,50,50,50 Nolva 40,40,40,20,20
Week 1-20 Aromasin 12.5/day
Diet currently very low carb <100/day about 3,500 calories total 350g of protein but will up my protein and total calories to 4,000 and 400 protein after a few weeks.
I run blood work fairly regularly, so depending on where I am in regards to estro and how I feel libido wise I may make some adjustments by adding another shot of test, adding more aromasin etc.
Running all pharmacy gear with the exception of the d-bol which I got in thailand a little while back.
Question 1: Can I use nolva as an anti e if the aromasin gives me sides? I broke out on my back last year on a cycle for the first time ever and have had some residual acne since then without relief. Was the first time I ever used an Anti E actually but was also using HGH and ran Sust at 750/week so I think it permanently made my oil glands huge.
Question 2: I've never seen anyone utilize test gel on a deca cycle, but my thinking was that because it's essentially all free test it will be better at keeping libido and what not than simply upping the test E. Is this stupidity?
Question 3: Is it better to switch to high carb lower fat for bulking? Or so long as your getting enough calories?
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All I'll comment on about the cycle is to ditch the gel and stick with injections. The bio-absorption of the gels is shit (10% or less). That is why you need to apply 50mg just to hopefully get 5mg in the bloodstream. The gels have also been shown to have a higher aromatization rate. It is just a hassle using it in my opinion.
The diet aspect I can help a little bit more with. The first thing is you need to up those carbs when you are bulking. They are going to be your friend.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/weight-gain/carbs-n...
This is the strategy I employ for bulking so most of my bulk is muscle and not fat.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/i-know-my-tdee%E2%80%A...
This is a similar strategy that may also interest you.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/the-key-to-quality-mas...
Thanks for the feedback and taking the time to post the links. Very helpful!
I was under the impression that the gels have almost no aromatization and because it's transdermal its mostly free test unbound. if your right I'm ditching that s*#t right away.
Very tame .......... i see no problems here, i wouldnt even classify this as a light cycle and it is definitely no blast .
Are you back on trt? If your on trt no pct.
Was going to try a PCT after this cause we're wanting more kids. Back on TRT and/or blast once mrs is pregnant.
Gotcha! Have you checked if you could from prior trt?
Yes - had 2 kids. In both cases stopped my HRT to conceive. Test levels weren't great then, 300-500 but the system was working
Yeah, not a good cycle at all, you need to make your mind up, a cycle like that will bottom you out afterwards, 300 deca is lower side of things but not when its 16 weeks. No you dont want to use nolva on cycle with deca and aromasin at that dose day one will bottom you out as well, i honestly think you should do test only with proviron, after you situation getting of trt it will make you feel real good! Something like sustanon and test e together would be nice.
Thanks the feedback, what do you mean by bottom out? And by making up your mind?
You will be more shut down than when you started. Deca for 16 weeks in your situation will be supressive and difficult to recover from, even with pct, your planning on a couple more kids, I wouldnt risk it at your stage. Aromasin at that dose with that cycle estro will be non existant by week 4.
AnonCycle history? Dont like the test to deca ratio, and doses look low if you are going for a true bulk. Never messed with gels, dont really see the point if you are running a cycle, maybe someone else has more experience with it.
You didn't mention anything about prolactin control in case it becomes an issue. Adding more aromasin would only be good if your estro is too high. Keeping your test higher, keeping estro and prolactin in check will help libido stay up. Could also add in some proviron as well, I like it in most of my cycles.
Diet wise if you wanna bulk you need to eat higher carbs.
And nolva is not interchangeable with an ai like aromasin, it doesnt lower estrogen, just keeps it from binding to certain tissues, like breast tissue. So its better used in pct and for gyno.
I would drop the gel and run the test e longer while the deca clears, or run test prop taper for a few weeks up until pct.
Why did you come off trt?
This is my 3rd cycle in the past 3 years, before that I ran a few cycles in my early 20's.
Came off TRT to see where I was at, plus I've got 2 kids and hoping to have more. My body seems to max out at about 300.
Thanks for the feedback! I don't have access to Caber where I am, but if it gets to high I may keep an alternative on hand. At present I'l be doing what I can supplement and diet wise to keep prolactin in check.
AnonYeah I think if you run 16 weeks of deca its going to be extremely difficult for you to recover, even at a low dose. And if you dont have access to caber, prami or bromo you might not want to risk it.
If you want to run a longer bulk cycle maybe something like sust/eq or test e/eq might work better.
difficult, but not impossible right? I will check this week if I can get prami or bromo - you've def. given me something to consider.
If prolactin does get high, once I stop the Deca it will correct itself no? I'm ok with an extended PCT or even cruising for a few months on Test and then introducing PCT after that. I like the deca for the joints as well so I'm pretty committed to running it. I ran it once before in my 20's and didn't have any sides then.
AnonNot impossible, but chances may be slim at best. If your prolactin does get high then stopping the deca should remedy that, but deca is a long ester and while its clearing you may still suffer from the side effects for weeks.
Just remember the longer you are on the harder it will be to recover, so cruising on test for a few months after a cycle might make recovery damn near impossible if you already suffer from low test.
In the end its your body and your decision to make, if you are dead set on still using deca I would run it 10-12 weeks at the most, run the test:deca at least a 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio and be sure you have something for prolactin just in case
Maybe try npp and keep it and 10 weeks.
AnonAlso a good point.
thanks guys! your feedback is helpful - I'm going to make a few adjustments. Getting an anti prolactin and keeping the deca to 12 weeks seems good for a start.
a few questions:
Test doesn't actually counteract the effects of elevated prolactin does it? Or is it that having higher test just keeps libido higher despite the prolactin?
I'm going to be completely shut down just from my TRT dose of 200mg/week (previously my LH and FH is 0 0 on TRT) - Does Deca somehow make you more shut down? Or its just a matter of being shut down longer which makes it harder to restart?
Will adding HCG at 500iu a week help?
AnonNo, test does not counteract high prolactin. You have to make sure your estrogen stays in check because if your estro gets high it is much easier for prolactin to rise along with it. Keeping your test higher can help with libido but if estrogen and prolactin become an issue it will greatly affect libido, among other things (gyno, bp, lipids etc).
Once you are shut down, thats it. Adding a more suppressive compound like deca will just make recovery more difficult than test alone. The more things you add, the more difficult a restart might become.
Adding hcg is something I would definitely look into for a deca cycle.