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FacesAreSoCold's picture
FacesAreSoCold
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posted Sun, 05/19/2013 - 10:52
2494

Oral Only Steroid Confusion

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22 years old
6 foot 1
172 pounds
9 % body fat

Hey any help would be appreciated on answering my questions, I'v been researching ( trying to there is a lot of information) on different forums about oral only steroid cycles and there are always two sides to the argument.

'' you can't oral steroids without using testosterone as a base ''

and

'' you can run them without a base on their own ''

My confusion comes from what I thought is that every steroid suppresses your natural production of testosterone and raises your estrogen. I thought the use of serms in PCT was to combat this and bring your testosterone and estrogen levels back to normal overtime?

My question is that why does testosterone need to be used as a base for all steroids? As opposed to doing an oral only cycle and using a pro hormone booster if needed to help get levels of testosterone back to normal or taking other measurements in your PCT regime to ensure that testosterone would return to normal overtime.

Even looking around here and on other forums no one usually posts studies or information regarding orals needing a base of testosterone. ( maybe there are and I'v just missed them, if so I'm sorry)

Take for example Anavar tablets, I always see people posting about wanting to do this due to them being afraid of needles or other reasons, which is then usually followed by you need to use test as a base or you won't be able to maintain an erection or have problems with your HPTA later on in life. Which I assumed all steroids would if you did not PCT properly or abuse the compounds.

I don't ever see anything study wise supporting this or people saying that when they used Anavar only this had happened to them. ( I understand studies on illegal drugs are hard to find because the drugs may have become illegal before any studies were ever done on them.)

If anyone with personal experience with using Anavar alone or any other oral without using testosterone as a base could input any advice or anyone that knows where a study can be found to be read up on, it would be much appreciated.

I am interested because I'm looking up information for my first cycle which I plan on starting in a few months but would prefer to not take a testosterone base which could make me break out due to my problems with bad acne in my teenage years. A lot of members might say if I'm worrying about blemishes then I have no business thinking about a steroid cycle, but I would prefer if they could give criticism based on personal experience or any form of study if they are available. My main goal is to gain 5 - 10 pounds for a photo shoot I'm in competition for, that could potentially get me a contract with the company and a nice pay check. ( that's why I can't have acne or blemishes as it will hinder my chances.)

I'm also sorry about the lenght of the post but I'd rather just get some solid advice from a forum of experienced users, rather than jumping into something and possibly regretting it for the rest of my life. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone in my post accidently.

GRIMEY's picture
  • GRIMEY
  • 214
  • 05/19/2013 - 14:53

Lots of good responses, I just want to touch on your comment about not wanting to run a test base due to acne issues.

Running an oral only cycle will not necessarily reduce your risk of acne. The oral will shut down your natural test production, upon finishing the cycle when you do a pct your natural test production will start back up and this is when many people, including myself, have the worst bouts of acne.

Testosterone gives us our male functions which is why we always include it as a base.

Owes a Review × 2
FacesAreSoCold's picture
  • FacesAreSoCold
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  • GRIMEY
  • 05/19/2013 - 15:05

I'v decided to bulk naturally for another year and then re evaluate how I'm doing and decide then if I want to try them again.

Yeah I read some articles that said serms can cause more acne during PCT? I read a few articles about Panthogenic acid helping people out in large doses and anti biotics could also help. Not sure if you've tried these but if not might help limit the acne you get.

Do you try combat it or just leave it be and suffer with it until it goes away?

GRIMEY's picture
  • GRIMEY
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  • FacesAreSoCold
  • 05/20/2013 - 04:05

+1 for having a level headed approach. As for the acne i fight it by controlling my estro as best as possible on cycle, as well as tanning, swimming and multiple showers per day while on cycle as well as pct.

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Doss's picture
  • Doss
  • 365
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:16

you're gonna find the consensus here is that you should wait until you're older. you can take the advice or leave it; up to you. it's given out of concern, however, not neglect.

to answer your question about the orals and need for test supplementation. it's quite simple.. all AAS compounds are derived from testosterone in some shape or form. although the chemical structure of the compounds differ, the presence of them still sends the negative feedback signals that tell the body to stop producing.

you're correct that the PCT regimen is geared towards resetting these systems. however, your testosterone is a big part of what makes you a man. suppressing natty test is part of the game with running juice. but the idea is (or should be) to provide as much stability and balance as possible.

think of a teeter totter (like a sea saw)... when two equal weights are placed on each side, it is in perfect balance. therefore, it should be level, right? now, when you start adding other things to one side of the equation, what happens? the balance is interrupted and instability occurs. to achieve the balance again, adjustments must be made on the opposite side.

see, our bodies are programmed to constantly pursue homeostasis, which literally means balance of life. when the balance is interrupted, the body responds in a manner that it feels with help to restore this balance. example, excessive testosterone and the body stops producing right? very basic function that most all of us know and understand. but it actually doesn't stop there. now the body has to do something with the excessive hormones. these hormones now become susceptible to enzyme activity for the synthesis of estrogen hormones and DHT, as well as to the binding action of SHBG. all of these actions reduce the levels of "free" test that are able to interact with the cells.

within that tangent of mine comes a point... the idea of supplementation is to compensate for suppression. if you were a chick, then an oral cycle wouldn't really be an issue. but as a dude, you need to supplement what you lose thru suppression. after all, testosterone plays a big role in what makes you a man. ya dig?

on a side note:

every steroid suppresses your natural production of testosterone and raises your estrogen.

not every steroid raises estrogen levels. some don't effect it at all, while others have the ability to suppress it.

i tell you all this because i feel it's important for you to get the facts and make the right decision. personally, and i say this because i care about all you youngsters, i'd rather see you wait a couple years. what you decide is your business. but make damn sure you have the facts, not some bullshit from someone in the gym that says, "i've been running juice for twenty years." because not all these cats know what they're doing. trust me on this.

FacesAreSoCold's picture
  • FacesAreSoCold
  • 1
  • Doss
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:28

Thanks, the use of the teeter totter helped me understand that really easily Smile I understand now why it would not be a very good idea to run an oral cycle alone, I thought that PCT helped return everything you lost to normal fairly quickly after, so it didn't matter how much natural production levels you lost. I think I understand now that you want to minimize testosterone suppression on a cycle so you don't develop any serious sides later on or during the cycle which could irreversibly damage homeostasis ?

I will not be using steroids then for a while, I'll keep training and bulking for another year and hopefully I can gain the 10 pounds naturally, then if I can I will keep on the same path and if not re-evaluate my nutrition and if that checks out, then I will consider using steroids again. You were a huge help thanks!

fabmob's picture
  • fabmob
  • 1
  • 05/19/2013 - 12:57

You don't have to use testosterone as a base. Without test, you will get less gains and possibly lose your libido on cycle, but that is about the extent of it. Using test is not going to make your HPTA recover faster if that is your main concern.

If you want a compromise solution, then try running HCG on cycle with orals. It will still keep your balls producing testosterone and help recover your HPTA faster when it is time to do PCT.

Doss's picture
  • Doss
  • 365
  • fabmob
  • 05/19/2013 - 18:38

I think I like this new feature!!

Doss's picture
  • Doss
  • 365
  • fabmob
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:09

all bad information. do not listen to this dude^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this in particular:

If you want a compromise solution, then try running HCG on cycle with orals. It will still keep your balls producing testosterone and help recover your HPTA faster when it is time to do PCT.

if you understand human physiology at its most basic level, you'll know that negative feedback and positive feedback simply cannot occur simultaneously for the same process. imagine trying to put your transmission in drive and reverse at the same time. you'll be there all fkn day.

All AAS compounds are derived from testosterone in some shape or form, either directly or indirectly.

this means that the presence of these hormones will send the signal there is too much thru negative feedback. hcg does play a role in stimulating the positive feedback loop, but negative feedback will trump this. the only benefits of hcg during a cycle is to introduce exogenous gonadatropic hormones, which in turn prevents testicular atrophy as well as helps with fertility issues. if exogenous testosterone or its derivatives are present, production will not take place.

that's just a tid bit of info for you. on a serious note, you don't need to be telling anyone it's ok to run ANYTHING without test, especially a youngster!

fabmob's picture
  • fabmob
  • 1
  • Doss
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:27

AAS stop the production of LH which causes the testes to shut down. HCG acts as a LH analogue, so it should cause your balls to function normally.

bigjrock's picture
  • bigjrock
  • 81
  • 05/19/2013 - 12:44

All you have to do is eat. I said this the other day. I was your same weight with the same height. I was a skinny fuck who always wanted to get bigger my whole life. Im a hardgainer and still have a lot of work to do. Don't rush into cycling. Train and eat for a few years. And eat like a monster. Then in a few years give it a go.

scoobydoo's picture
  • scoobydoo
  • 1.7k
  • sgtstedanko
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:59

What the fuck!?No macro breakdown!lol j/k

FacesAreSoCold's picture
  • FacesAreSoCold
  • 1
  • sgtstedanko
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:34

Wow extremely informative post thank you, I like the workout program you devised and will give it a try. On the nutrition level would it be wise for me to just eat what you said? Or incorporate the foods you gave me in the sample diet into my macro nutrients and daily caloric needs that I got from getting my BMR x my activity level. Then getting 20 % of that and adding it on? So I do not over eat and increase my body fat %

FacesAreSoCold's picture
  • FacesAreSoCold
  • 1
  • sgtstedanko
  • 05/19/2013 - 14:17

Thank you again Smile

Doss's picture
  • Doss
  • 365
  • sgtstedanko
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:10

it don't get no better than this right hur!

alloneword's picture
  • alloneword
  • 146
  • sgtstedanko
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:03

As I'm reading this I'm thinking to myself, "Man, I wish I was a hard gainer." I probably eat a third of that, not because that's all I can/want to eat but that's what I have to do to keep the lbs off.
/jealous

jpal's picture
  • jpal
  • 192
  • 05/19/2013 - 11:35

you dont need anything bro 22 6-1 and 172 eat lots and train and in a few years come back you have plenty of room to gain natty

miggymig's picture
  • miggymig
  • 251
  • 05/19/2013 - 11:07

22 yo 9% you should just adjust you diet to your goals. Looks like you know how to keep body fat low.
But if your not going to take that advice you have to ask yourself 'how attached am i to my liver'

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FacesAreSoCold's picture
  • FacesAreSoCold
  • 1
  • miggymig
  • 05/19/2013 - 13:37

Thank you for the advice! And I'm very attached Smile

FacesAreSoCold's picture
  • FacesAreSoCold
  • 1
  • BigBmaj
  • 05/19/2013 - 15:35

Thanks you too!

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