ALT- AST levels high
HI all,
Need some help. Im 58 and been on TRT for about the last 10 years administering myself only getting yearly checkups at my doctor. not sure if he did the specific tests for liver fucntion. Anyway, been training for a competion in August since January and a few weeks ago began a Anavar (50) and winstrol (50) each day broken into morning and night (25-25) After 4 weeks i started 40 Clenburerol and T3. Got my blood tested and my ALT-ASt were off the charts high. (Cholesterol is LDL 166- HDL-184)
Urea Nitrogen (7-25) mine 30
Bun/ Creatiine (6-22) mine 23
Alkalaine Phosphatase (35-144) mine 34
AST (0-35) mine 74
ALT (9-46) mine 135
White blood cells and red are both in the good range.
I was told to start taking Tudca. Im taking 1000 a day (1/2 am- 1/2 pm) 500-500 just started a few days ago. I have 3 more weeks to finish the cycle. Should i stop now and will the tudca help or can i contine and these numbers are temporary. Is this causing irreverasable damage to my liver as i read the liver can repair itself. Any help or advice is appreciated. Thanks in advamce
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choline & inositol, NAC and liver cleanse from amazon.
HDL of 184 sounds absurd, are you sure that value wasn't your Total Cholesterol? If not, that value is so high it might be indicative of some sort of serious metabolic issue, Anavar should be tanking your HDL not raising it.
For AST/ALT take NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) at 1000mg for each oral you're taking, it increases glutathione content which acts as an antioxidant to neutralize free radicals and protect the liver from further damage (giving it time to repair). Liver damage is not good of course, but luckily it has a unique regenerative capacity so it's very good at repairing itself with time.
Its great to take with Glutamine and Glycine also as those three form Glutathione in the body.
Winstrol is well known for being harsh on the Liver, as for the other oral tablets they will still put stress on it for as long as you take them all. Pretty much any medication including OTC's increase ALT levels. Taking supplements to help the liver will indeed keep it healthier and help bile flow and functioning, but they will not bring things back into line whilst you are taking them all. To cause irreversible damage you really have to punish it over a long time, we are talking ALT around 130 upwards over solid years worth - not just 8 to 10 weeks of steroid orals. The liver has to form fatty deposits within it, which then begin to take over it all over quite a few years before it progresses further along the line and becomes irreversible to NASH and then Cirrhosis. I tried a new protocol several months back when I got a bit of a fright with my ALT from taking BP meds, anti biotics for tooth surgery and Dbol lol. It involves taking Folic acid 400mg and B12 tabs 1000mcg ED for 2 to 3 weeks and the drop in ALT is remarkable - it basically reverses fatty deposits and plunges both AST and ALT readings.
Something to bare in mind though is that if that ALT starts getting near 180 you will start to get liver pains when you are eating and drinking and will feel nauseous afterwards. Once you get over 200 you will be in continual excruciating pain - so personally if you can get the results you are after via other methods such as a different oil then I would do that and knock this protocol on the head. The ALT will generally keep on increasing as it finds it increasingly difficult to process them all the more that time goes on.
What happens when you are over 1500!? I'll tell ya, you get to spend a few days in a hospital bed
LMFAO I nearly put that in there that Mak holds the site title of steroid induced hepatitis, I was just dipping my toe in the water at 210
You must of been on some serious IV pain meds to deal with how that felt, I don't want to even imagine.
Strangely enough my liver felt just fine, the labs sure scared me though. "Just overdosed on the tylenol a little bit doc".
Could have been the searing pain locking my muscles up from the rhabdomyolysis masking any pain in my liver though, but I really didn't notice anything wrong with my liver.
I had to go back after spending the day in the emergency CAT clinic once they diagnosed what was causing the crippling stomach pain in a few days. Went in to see the Hepatologist and because it was steroid related they got scared and didn't really know what they were dealing with or how bad things were. He told me he wanted to do a liver biopsy where he would simply 'lay me on my side and insert a largish needle through the side of my rib cage into my liver, take a cut of it and pull it back out!!!' - I am nearly passing out off the side of the chair and fainting on the floor at this point. He said you have a week to improve your blood results, come back and do a blood test then and if things have not improved then thats what we are doing
So I go back in about 10 days later to get my results having more or less accepted my fate that it was going to happen, he looks at me with this sexy little student nurse in there too on work experience and said 'congratulation's you are nearly back in range so no biopsy!'. Bro you have never seen press so happy 
It was one of those times I will never forget ...
That was a lot of tren too wasn’t it?
Long period of Tren and Dbol with no liver protection of any kind, I was warned but never listened.
Lifted-presence92Go get a myers cocktail with extra glutathione at and iv infusion place 1x a week I did that but now I iv glutathione 200mg 2x a week lol
Just don’t even mess with others unless you compete and are in prep other than that it makes zero sense A lot more people are moving away from the stupid internet bro cycles and it’s a beautiful thing now!
That is the price you pay when using orals. You just have to make the call if the risk is worth the reward. Liver supps can a help a little, but that is it, just a little bit. It won't correct it. Var and winni are probably about the worst offenders in terms of flipping your lipids. All you can do is mitigate the risk of orals by using sane dosages and limiting duration. You are not taking crazy high dosages so I wouldn't expect any irreversable damage but it will take awhile to go back down after you stop. Really keep an eye on lipids/cholesterol, I would be more worried about that. Might want to get on some statins from your doc to help with that because that will take much longer to go back down than your liver values. OTC supps have zero effect on correcting my cholesterol.
It’s pretty much to be expected when doing what you’re doing, on the bright side at least you know the product is real. As long as you don’t have any underlying issues you’ll be fine, get on some liver support and increase your water intake, I’m willing to bet it’s lower than what you need. It’ll take about a month to straighten out. Being realistic, a weeklong vacation bender with umbrella drinks and Tylenol for breakfast every day would put you in that same range, millions of people come out of that just fine every summer.
Running two orals not good for liver.
I have used tudca with good results lowering ALT/AST.
I used Red yeast rice to lower LDL
And fish oils to raise HDL
Good luck.