+ 5 AI / PCT: Dosing Protocol
After a few questions about when the best time is to dose your AI/PCT compounds, I thought I would share with you my dosing protocol, with an explanation to help you understand why I dose these compounds when I do.
Here's when I dose;
- AI's > Aromasin: In the Morning
- PCT > Clomid: Throughout the day
- PCT > Nolva: At Night
Why
Free testosterone has reached a peak in the late morning until around mid-day when the sun has risen, this is why you wake up with 'morning wood'); so to capitalise upon the daily peaks in your free testosterone, I dose my aromasin in the morning. This will prevent any peaks in my estrogen throughout the day (since its half life is ~27 hours) and it will also further increase the amount of free testosterone in my system, since aromasin removes the binded testosterone from your sex hormone binging globulin (SHBG).
I dose my clomid throughout the day, because clomid is highly surpressive, it gets me emotional if i take a high dose all at once. Also i want to keep my blood levels as stable as possible to prevent any further sides.
My nolvadex dose is taken before i go to bed at night, since this is when estrogen is peaked in the human body. Nolvadex is an anti-estrogen, so while im sleeping, the estrogen is under control, which also aids my testosterone peaks the next morning.
My PCT Dosages
- AI's > Aromasin: 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25
- PCT > Clomid: 100/100/50/50
- PCT > Nolva: 20/20/10/10
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Some of these comments are so old. Time has allowed us to advance but as I research the web for PCT info basically the Same protocol “link” comes up and I have followed it. About to apply it for the 1st time. I’ve ran gear with no knowledge of pct. Had slight gyno issues and started Nolva. I’m dosing test e 300mg; 100mg M.W.F. = gyno almost gone, planning to finish test and start hcg before pct protocol.. ??¿¿ 2 Weeks of Nolva? Then continue test into pct protocol? I need to get bloods bro. I know. Just trying to get as much experience/knowledge threw testimony. I appreciate a bunch of the back n fourth because it sparks questions in my own brain/life so thank you to all who challenge themselves to grow physically, spiritually and mentally. HBK88
I'm doing something similar. ~250mg test cyp/wk. Plan on stopping at 16 wks. A guy I work out with who is experienced using AAS said I might not need any PCT if that is all I'm doing. He also said if I do need PCT, I may only need HCG. I see nolva and clomid consistently come up too. How did you determine nolva and hcg were right for you?
whynot_meThis dosing protocol is a good one, as it takes into account the daily peaks in free testosterone and estrogen levels. It also allows for a more gradual and stable release of the compounds, which can help to reduce the risk of side effects. Additionally, the lower doses of the compounds can help to reduce the risk of over-suppressing the body's natural hormone production.
NoodlesSubQWould it be helpful to do nolvadex only for a PCT? I cannot take clomid as it fucks up my eyesight.
I am taking 300mg/test per week for 16 weeks.
So do I use this dosing protocol or the other dosing protocol in the pct defined ? And do I take Aromasin for the full four weeks? An where and how would I supplement Hcg in the protocol? @carlosdanger
Since you seem to be the guru, I went through a horrible pct for my first cycle. I didn't have an official AI, I used an otc one during cycle. I was perfect while on cycle, I did bloat a bit, but mood n everything was PERFECT. Anyhow, pct comes around n I was very sick for a few days off top. Weird sides, so I post here n people say its a bad reaction to clomid n cut it off. I did, then I was able to at least work out now, but VERY emotional, lost all my gains, etc.
come to find out few weeks later people complained of sources clomid n AI products so I guess it was bunk which is why I was sick
I went through HORRIBLE anxiety for a while and even have spells here n there months later which I have accepted it might not be from my cycle
so main question is how to deal with or avoid the mood swings
this cycle I have adex which I will run all cycle. pct idk if ill do the 40, or 20/10 for nolva. Advice
AnonWell since u most likely had bunk clomid I'd run a full standard pct. clomid/nolva and I recommend using Aromasin during pct as well.
When u bridge from adex into the Aromasin pct overlap by 3 days. Don't worry about crashing ur estrogen cuz it will not happen by running the two for such a short period of time together. Start at a lower dose of Aromasin 6.25mg so u can guage ur reaction to rhe compound and honestly that's enough to keep u tight for the entire pct. just make sure u run it daily.
AnonWas just wondering why u lowered the nolva dose? Strictly to combat too low of e2?
Yes, i've got an AI in there also, the key is to maintain homeostasis, so with estrogen (like any other hormone) too little and too much will produce detrimental effects.
There's a link here that explains it well.
PCT and Aromasin
I've seen further blood tests from a former member here on eroids who found the higher dose to be too surpressive on their estrogen levels. Both the 40/40/20/20 and 20/20/10/10 protocol have merit, however the majority of people that i've had feedback from have stated that with the addition of an AI into their PCT, their estrogen levels have been surpressed far too much. Remember that estrogen is extremely important in the male human body and a regulation of homeostasis is ideal, too much surpression of estrogen or too much estrogen will cause side effects.
I literally looked into this for myself and have some. Thanks for the information!
AnonWhat a great explaination in that link!
I see you e done all your homework here brother P. I like hearing about the bloods to back it all up as well. I really like that you don't recommend an eod aro protocol.
You carry the torch brother. Ur doing a great job
PaladinP, this is helpful but I'm wondering what you're doing during cycle. Do you use Anastrazole? What is your anti-estrogen on-cycle protocol? Thanks.
My AI of choice on cycle is Aromasin and i continually use that through to my PCT.
PaladinCool. Just Aromasin? What dosage and schedule of Aromasin are you running in-cycle?
I only use aromasin on test only cycles, since test aromatises, which increases estrogen and aromasin is an aromatase inhibitor. However, for cycles which include deca, tren and any other 19-nor compounds, i use caber, prami, bromo as well How to control prolactin.
Now, ill start off by saying i'm different, in much the same way that you are different from me. In my cycles i never use an AI, not because i dont have any at hand because i always have an aromasin and PCT stash readily available - more-so, because i don't need to. There's no point in suppressing my estrogen if my body is already controlling it perfectly. But if i did need it on cycle, then i would run it at 12.5mg/EOD and if i experienced any sides i would increase the dosage to ED and monitor my estrogen levels from there. The key is not to surpress your estro too much, while also not letting it get out of control.
PaladinMakes sense. So you only use Aromasin in-cycle if you need it, or otherwise you don't run anything until PCT? If so, what are the signs that your body tells you that you need Aromasin?
You got that right. Aromasin is always available for me on cycle if needed - then in PCT, i use this protocol on this post, aromasin, nolva and clomid in the dosages and format layed out above.
Monitor how you feel, if you have too much estrogen in your system, you're ready for an AI (aromasin), if you have too little, then you can hold off from the aromasin.
High Estrogen Symptoms
• Fluid retention and weight gain
• Fluctuations in body temperature
• Adult acne
• Depression, apathy, irritability and aggression due to a hormonal imbalance
• Decrease libido or impotence
• Prostate issues (inflammation or cancer)
• Gyno
Low Estrogen Symptoms:
• Fatigue
• Weight gain
• Hot flashes and night sweats
• Depression, apathy, irritability and aggression due to a hormonal imbalance
• Insomnia or restless sleep
• Headaches
• Low libido or impotence
• Stiffness or joint pain
• Anxiety
• Heart palpitations
• Adult acne
Pre-Cycle Protocol
PaladinP, that is awesome information!! Thank you for taking the time to discuss it with me and for the benefit of the other guys here that were as lost as I was.
good write up this will be a great referral link for teh noobs
Updated
Update features PCT dosages following a 4 week protocol.
Great post P, found it extremely helpful.
cbrant10Hey guys since this thread is already started I was wondering what your recommended clomid pct would be? I did Torem for my last pct 215 6'1 15%bf. Test E 500 wk 12 wks 50mg tbol 5-6wks
Stats?
Cycle history?
Goals?
Fill out the question marks cbrant10 then i can advise you. Also have you had any bloodwork done at any stage and what was your torem dosage alongside the other compounds you used?
Good bro science, I like that theory a lot. I will have to give it a go.
AnonWhat do you think about taking clomid before bed ?
This is really such a great post, because you give both the how and the why. Its much more of a teaching post than just a heres what to do.
I would consider taking clomid before bed in the second two weeks of my PCT (on the basis that im dosing my clomid at 100/100/50/50). It's a great compound, but too much clomid in one go has negative effects on my emotions. IMO, it really depends on your past experiences with clomid, since each person reacts differently to different compounds, you can judge how your body will react to concentrated vs unconcentrated dosages.
Whenever I try and inform the community, i'd much rather include what i personally do, why this works for me and also any future recommendations. Take a look at my 1-test forum post. The main aim of that post was to increase the information out there, since the compound is relatively new and there is little personal experience by the way of reviews available.
AnonI try to take notes in my log on the things I notice. I have only taken clomid before bed, I will have to run an experiment and see if I feel anything during the day.
Nice refinement, answers not dosage but when during a typical day and the rationale behind it.
Hopefully this different perspective will help people during their PCT and it even potentially has the benefit to increase the effectiveness of anyone's PCT.
Nice! Real world breakdown.
AnonWOW!! Once again, "great minds think alike", brother P. I've just spent my entire morning putting together a topic on the necessity of AI's on cycle. so funny that you're on a similar topic.