Add more primo? Suggestions/input on first cycle.
30 y/o. Started my first cycle last week after talking with some friends who have cycled on and off for years. I have a medical and science background so I'm moderately familiar with what to expect, but nothing beats true stories from people with experience, so I'm here for some input.
Had labs done beforehand to have a baseline. CBC, CMP, and lipids were good for the most part (HDL: 40 mg/dL). Total test 367.2 ng/dL, free test 121.0 pg/mL.
I've been boxing for two years and lifting consistently for the past two years as well and I've trained on and off for the past 15 years. Desired results are to lean out and put on clean, lasting muscle. After years of dealing with doctors putting me on on SSRI's, SNRI's, benzo's, and everything in between that had me combating the weight fluctuation with never ending diet changes, I've finally stopped meds 4-5 months ago after I feel like I got sucked into a never ending med cycle....and I feel pretty damn good (not great, but good).
Started last week 300 mg Test E/week and 100mg Primobolan/week (tested beforehand after seeing its commonly faked)
Was planning on bumping to 500mg test E/week and 200mg primo/week on weeks 3-4 and staying at that for 12 weeks (16 weeks total)
First two weeks PCT: 40mg/day Nolva
Weeks 3&4 PCT: 20mg/day Nolva
One concern I had is for any additional input on my PCT and if I should add an AI in now so I don't worsen my gyno that I've had since I was a kid due to being on Risperidone, and get some input on my primo dosage. Is doing 100-200mg/week a waste? I added the primo in as it seemed to be the safest I could put on top of the test.
Open to any input. Thanks!
******UPDATE*******
Went to see an endocrinologist who's 100% on board with guiding me through a cycle with monitoring and ordering labs as needed.
Going to drop the Primo, just 300 Test E for weeks 1-4 then 500/weeks 5-16. I have Nolva/Clomid and aromasin for PCT and plenty of aromasin if I need to toss it in there at week 4-5 after getting bloods.
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Posted an update after seeing my endocrinologist.
I actually missed a note my doctor left me on my online portal and he referred me to an endocrinologist due to my test levels. I'll update what I hear after seeing him.
Drop the Primo man. Stick with test. Stay with that 300mg a week for 4 weeks at least. You said worsen your gyno? If you already have gyno you should take your AI in as low a dose as possible and work your way up. Having high E2 symptoms is as bad as tanking them too.
TricepatopsFirst cycle drop the primo. You can get so much just out of test on first cycle if you do it right.
For your first cycle you should just do test only but if your gonna do the primo anyway might wanna bump up the mg to what the other person mentioned 4-600. And yes you should have an ai on hand and you will probably need an AI but every person is different with their estrogen conversion so I can't tell you for sure. And for your pct and definately want clomid also, nolva isn't gonna recover your test levels. But honestly your starting out with total test of 300s that very low for your age. And usually when people cycle you usually end up with a lower total test score than what you started with after your pct. Your definately setting yourself up for lifetime trt by doing cycles with a total test score of 367.
That was one of the things that was in the back of my mind for quite some time and prevented me from doing it for a while, and it's still weighing on me, which is one of the reasons I wanted to keep this relatively mild.
Regarding the clomid, if taking with nolva. You think 100mg/day for the first two weeks and 50mg/day weeks 3&4 with the same dosages of nolva listed above?
Yeah makwa beat me to saying that it doesn't matter how mild it is, your shutting your system down one way or another. I'm not telling you what to do but you should probably just do trt with test levels of 367, or try everything in your power to get good natty testosterone levels but honestly all those meds probably screwed your test levels up bad so I don't know if you can recover from that to get good enough levels not to go on trt to feel normal. But yeah that's good for the clomid and.nolva dosing.(not positive on the nolva dosing) but you can find many posts on proper pct on here somewhere.
No such thing as relatively mild. Once you shut down your HPTA it is shut down and the risk of it not bouncing back to normal is real no matter what you run. Most will likely agree that each cycle chips away at your total natty production and some never recover, even with a so called mild cycle.
You think that with my total's being in the 300's at 30, would it even be worth it ultimately then or you think my HPTA is gonna shit the bed even with the best PCT? I know there's always an inherent risk with any cycle, but anything that you'd think that I could take that would increase test without directly exogenous test? Clomid or Nolva only without even cycling test?
TricepatopsIf you cycle that is the risk you take. Shutting down your body's natural production of test. If that is something you are willing to live with for the rest of your life then you can do a cycle but if it isn't then you need to try another way.
Seen you have some previous gyno. That makes doing test at 500mgs a little harder then. You would definitely want bloods as you need to see where your E2 levels are at because you don't want to add to that gyno. I would do a.lower dose of test say 300mgs if you decide to do it and add proviron to it as it can act as a mild AI without all the sides but.in saying that you may still need one. But the best and smartest thing to do is go to a doctor and tell them that you have all the signs and symptoms of low test. Your levels should be higher at 30 years old. Maybe doctor will prescribe TRT.
That's what I initially told my doc to get him to order the labs I did, I was stupid and forgot to mention E2. My doctor and I have a pretty close connection since I used to work with some of his colleagues so he's really easy to talk to and get ahold of. I just reached out to him and mentioned some things so we'll see what he says back and I'm gonna go from there. If he prescribes TRT, i'd feel a lot more comfortable getting onto something when everything's readily available if need be depending on labs.
Some people do clomid kind of replacement therapy and just take clomid to get their test levels up but a lot of people get bad sides from clomid. Nobody can tell you for.sure.if.your hpta will recover after a cycle. If I were you I would just go on trt and do cycles and.cruise but some people may have different opinions than mine but explore all options.
I agree, see what your doc says and get their input.
I get exactly what ya mean, and I appreciate the input, a lot. I'm thinking for the long run overall, It seems a little risky since its already so low (likely from my dumbass neurologist that gave me those meds when I was 13). I think I might get on some consistency of the natty routes mentioned by Makwa and get some labs done in a few months to see how everything comes out and go from there.
Free test is the workhorse. Reducing SHBG can make you feel young again.
https://www.eroids.com/forums/general/general-talk/natural-routes-to-low...
In the event I do decide to go the route and run just the test E for 12 weeks, should I use RustyHooker's PCT or should add in hCG? I'm seeing mixed posts about hCG.
Weeks 1&2: Aromasin 6.25 ED, 40 Nolva 20mg AM/20mg PM, and 100 Clomid 50mg AM/50mg PM.
Weeks 3&4 Nolva 20 and 50 Clomid Daily
Since it's your first cycle, would you consider doing test only? And start with a lower dose of 300-350mg/week to see how your body reacts? There's more than one way to do your first cycle by doing 500mg/wk.
As for primo, if you decide to do it, most say a good dose is at least 400-600mg/wk. Hope you're ready to inject the oil amounts, can get tiring, especially if you get pip. Gotta ask, why do primo for your first cycle?
I'm completely open to trying just test and seeing how my body reacts to it. I didn't have any PIP on my first injections thankfully. But the reason I put primo on board with the test because, from what I've read, it seems to create more solid, lasting muscle on top of wanting to cut so I thought it would be a little boost to just the test.
Primo isn't going to do jack shit for you but diet will.