Plain and simple the foundation of man is hgh and testosterone the natural kind we are born with hence everyones different some tall some short some big some small to say hgh doesn't increase muscle is rediculous but also true hgh literally creates new muscle fibers that were not there to begin with and so what you do with those new fibers is now up to you.
And I'd start with 2 ius and add one every month maybe add 2 after the first 2 months preferabley alone and ramping up for your cycle to start around 4 or 5 ius
And fat loss and straight up feeling amazing will be the first things you notice wich to me alone even at 2 ius makes my fuckin day

also some say you don't gain any muscle until your reach 8iu + -- any truth to that?

There was a recent study done on I think aids patients running 18ius of serostim a day for 16 weeks or so with no gain in muscle. Not sure if they were working out. The study doesn't apply to us 100% cause it's not bodybuildrs but you would think jn those doses they would have alteast gained a pound or two of muscle. I can't accurately answer your question because I just started running high quality pharm grade gh about 2 months ago but I can tell you when I was running what we considered quality generics I didn't gain any muscle other then what I would attribute to the cycle I was running. And I was running 10ius ed for most of it and some times up to 15-20ius ed. But there is no comparison between generics and pharm grade. So far since I been running pharm grade I've just seen some great fat loss. In my experience hgh is wortless for muscle building unless you add a potentially dangerous drug we don't talk about on this forum. That's the only way ive gotten muscle gain from hgh.

But they say there is some great synergy betwen test and gh. But like I said I ran mostly crappy chinese generics up until recently, so I didn't experience that. I'll report back in a few months as I'm running a cycle with some pharma gh in the mix and see if I notice any more then what I would get from just gear muscle wise. Fatloss is crazy tho. It's hard to even see the scale go up now cause it's buring fat at such a fast rate.

What I do is run higher doses on cycle and low hrt type doses off cycle. So if you have that kinda money to run 8-10ius I personally would run that starting 2-3 weeks before the cycle and then after the cycle go back down to 3ius or so.

Highest I went was 10-12iu omnitrope Ed. All I can afford to run now is 4.5iu serostim Ed. I was larger and leaner on 10iu/day of course. The gear I'm on makes the gh work differently also.

Are you using real pharm gh or fake chinese generic? Cause in the last 3-4 weeks since adding. Some pharm grade gh while bulking my bodyfat has gone from 12.5% to a little over 9%, so on 5ius of pharm gradeI've lost 7 pounds of fat while in a 1000 cal surplus, all in 4 weeks if not a little less. On 10-20ius of chinese generics all I got was edema so bad I needed a diuretic and no positive results

So are you running pharma or generic?