posted Sun, 06/21/2015 - 04:43
6228
+ 4 Self TRT or Endo first?
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New here. About to turn 45 and had test levels measured b/c I noticed I was putting on weight around my belly very easily and even working out hard it wasnt coming off. Got some labs and my Test level was 253 and my estro was also "low" but just barely.
I have only done one simple cycle and that was a year ago. My test levels before cycle were about 320. Borderline low.
I had a physical a few weeks back and showed my Doc the Test levels and she recommended I see an Endo.
Any advice on what's best to do? I am 99.9% sure I will make an appointment with endo but not sure what he is gonna say.
Anyone use that TRT Cream?
If i have to do TRT myself, whats a normal dose? 150-200mg a week?
TIA
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Back with an update.
Been 3 months, I was prescribed 100mg shot , once every 2 weeks. After 4 shots (2 months) they ran bloods an my Test levels were 340 range LOL. Doc was like that was still way too low, so these last 3+ weeks they raised my dose to 100mg per week (1 shot a week at 100mg), I got back in another 3 or so months to get retested.
I think the new prescription has def helped, I noticed more of a sex drive so hoping im at least in the 400's now. See what happens at the next blood test.
Slow going, that's for sure.
you'll probably end up in the 600 range and then the fun begins between RBC issues and trying to tweak an 800 range.
FINALLY!
After all this, I got 10 x 1ml vials of Test Cyp (Perrigo) from Walmart and my doc prescribed me 25 x 21g pins, That's gonna HURT lol. I'm gonna bring in 25G pins, fuck 21g!
I go this week for my first shot, then every 2 weeks, until the 3rd visit where they "teach me" and then I do it at home.!
Dude, it's been four months since you first came here asking for advice. Wow. However, it's been four months of learning and sharing. I really hope that this is the start of a new chapter for you that kicks ass. I'm grateful for your sharing in your adventures. Cheers Kingkahn!
Welcome to the USA medical establishment.
I go for my first shot tomorrow. See how it goes.
The 10ml of Test Cyp did only cost me $30. So that's nice :-)
Was it 200mg per ml, I assume? Or lower? (Or in some weird case of awesomeness, was it higher?)
UPDATE!
Well after a month of playing with the medical establishment, I finally had a Pituitary MRI done in an "open" mri. So i didnt freak out at all.
Results came back that I have a benign cyst on my Pituitary that could be affecting secretions. I am borderline low with Test levels, but below normal with Free Test.
The doctor is going to prescribe me 100mg Test Cyp every 2 weeks. Said the vials you get are 1ml vials and you get 2 per prescription.
He isn't 100% sure my insurance will cover it but he is going to try anyways, i can always pay out of pocket, but at least i have a legal script.
I shoudl have the script by next week to do the pickup at the pharmacy then I have to go in with the doc for him to adminster the shots and "teach me" how to do it. LOL
Long process but I think I'm almost there.
That is a very low dose by most modern standards. I'm amazed at these docs who go this route. 100mg/week should be pretty standard.
From my experience endos aren't the best at this. It's rare to find many docs who are "good" at it, to be honest, as they just don't keep up with the research.
Do your research on docs and find those who are genuinely interested in TRT. My $.02
@kingkahn, I hope this helps you out! A lot of fellas here may say that 100mg every two weeks is pretty low, but if you feel better and don't have roller coaster emotions & energy, then screw it, whatever works, go with it. If it doesn't work, fix it!
Going forward for you, what are the options you have regarding that cyst on your pituitary? I'm guessing if they figure it's benign, you'll ignore it, but I'm just curious. Rooting for you, brother. -Zeus
They verified by lab tests that the cyst was not secreting any fluids, which i guess is the "real" concern, as long as its just sitting there and doing nothing, they will ignore it, If it begins to leak or secrete fluids then it will become a concern for them.
So as of now, I should see a boost in my energy, mood and hopefully lose of some fat that won't go away.
I may also supplement my TRT with some Primo, but not sure, I get blood tests every 6 months once TRT starts, so I have some room to maybe blast a little higher the first 2-3 months then back off before the blood tests.
Any experiences with doing that?
Thanks for following along. appreciate the good vibes.
Hey King, I've never heard of "testosterone cypionate secreting fluids." What, exactly are they looking for? I seriously have no clue what that even is, and I'm trying to learn all I can from the peeps here on eroids. Help! And thank you!
You misunderstood me.
The doctors are worried the Benign Cyst ON my pituitary could be secreting fluids, which could be cancer, etc.
And would effect all my levels.
As of yesterday, I had a script in hand for 10 vials (1ml) of Test Cyp and had it filled at Walmart, they had to order it, should arrive tonight.
I have to go into the Endo's office to "learn how to inject yourself" for the next 2 visits, then i'm on my own.
ill post a pic of the Test Cyp once I have it.
WOO HOO
Brother, thank you for clarifying. My apologies for misunderstanding! Ugh.
As for you, congrats on finally moving forward! I'm hoping this works well for you and that you finally get your body (and subsequently, your life) dialed into "a new kick ass normal." I'm rooting for you, indeed!
Here is my personal opinion, take it as such. I started self TRT over a year ago and I wish now I knew everything I did now including my bloods. My test level was 96 when I started TRT. I finally met with an Endo and we agreed to run Test E at 125 mg per wk for 2 months prior to my next appointment and blood work. I don't feel great at 125mg, many old symptoms of lack of focus, lethargy... have come back. I will wait until November so I can see all the blood work results. I may not listen to what my endo has to say but I will be far more educated. Simply put, I would see how you feel at the dosage your endo gave you, give it a couple months, get blood work and if you still dont feel right up your dosage (I think 100mg per wk is more appropriate). At least you will be more educated on what test levels make you feel good. I would do all of this before I started adding in other compounds. Again, just an opinion from someone who has made the mistakes. Good luck brother!
Here are my full labs from the 2nd test.
https://www.eroids.com/pics/trt-lab-work
Well, I just got news! After waiting for 2 weeks for results, assuming they were normal, my doc emailed me!
My levels came back LOW! and they are sending me for Pituitary MRI (health insurance required) but looks like I may get TRT after all!
The email shows the ranges and then my test results from 7/31 and 8/13
FREE TESTOSTERONE(DIRECT)
6.0 - 8/13/15
7.2 - 7/31/15
TOTAL TEST
295.8 - 8/13/15
321.7 - 7/31/15
FSH
2.1 - 8/13/15
2.3 - 7/31/15
ESTRADIOL
11.9
"FREE TESTOSTERONE LOW AT 6 HIS LH AND FSH ARE LOW END"
I'm following your adventure, so please keep us updated as it all comes together. I really wanna know how this turns out for you! I, too, am low, and learning all I can about TRT. I'm rooting for you, brother!
Thanks Z, an adventure it sure is!
They are trying to get me into an "open" MRI machine because I'm highly claustrophobic. If you've ever had an MRI above the waist then you know its like be strapped to a table and shoved into a pipe 2" bigger than you for an hour.
I had one done previously and had a full blown panic attack. LOLOL. Either that or gimme some valium or something so I can chill the fuck out.
@kingkahn, dude, you had me cracking up with the picture of even myself having a panic attack in that tube. I think in my youth, even my 20s, that might have really messed with me. I'm damn near 40 now, and I've done phases where I've practiced yoga, and it's really helped me to just chill out. I also have a lot more trust for the people I surround myself with. In your case, it takes immense patience and trust. However, I agree, drugs in that case sure would help! (Knowing me, I'd just pass out and wake up after the whole thing was over. Unless that's a no no in an MRI.)
Regardless, thank you for sharing! I really appreciate it. The people on this site have really helped sort of "fill in the blanks" in my brain regarding TRT, AAS, and even training tips (which for a guy like me, I've been in the weight room so long that it's always nice for an old dog to learn a new trick occasionally).
Keep kicking ass, brother! I hope that an open MRI can work out. If not, I hope drugs are prescribed, indeed!
Still waiting on MRI. Thanks brother.
So I got my results back and this time my bloods said my Test level was 320, which was ABOVE the "low" point of like 240.
They did one final blood test to see the results, if this test is above 240 then I'm shit out of luck. He said there is nothing he can do.
I do not always agree that their so called scale of normalcy works for everyone. If you can not get test from your doctor and you still dont feel good, try getting some test here. I would start with a very basic cycle of test E or test C, only at roughly 125mg per week and see how you feel after a couple months. If you find you feel better with that dosage you can continue. Please seek out advise from other members as well because if you screw it up you may be on TRT and that is a life time cycle that you cant get off.
I did a third test 10 days ago and playing phone tag with this bitch to give me the results.
My guess is, if they were below 240 they would have actively sought me out, so basically my levels are 280-300 but I can tell shit is slowing down, so I think I''m going to start doing my own.
If I'm running 100-150mg a week, do I need to take anything else to keep estro in check?
Everyone is different. The older I've gotten, the more sensitive I've become. I have to take an AI with my TRT dose. I found out by my bloods and also I started to get acne (no other signs). Once I got it dialed in, I'm great, so put the effort in to find out for sure and don't guess. Good luck.
What AI, Adex? and how much and when are you taking?
Be a good starting point for me to know
Im worried about Acne as I'm prone to acne, bad skin most of my teens and 20s.
I take 6.25 mg of aromasin a day. I'm on 180mg a week of Test-U.
I was never prone to acne on cycles when I was younger, not estro sides. When I started TRT, I was okay for a while, but then decided to do a small blast with Sust and that broke me out big time (torso). Once I got back on Test-C and a daily AI, 99% of it cleared up (still get a few pimples here and there).
The older I've gotten, the more I seem to aromatize, so you just have to get regular bloods done and keep on top of it.
How often do you get blood work?
It looks like i'm not going to be given a prescription for TRT, so there's that.
I'm also in a state that's very hard to get bloods w/o prescription. So that is a worry for me.
I'm looking at doing 2 x 50mg of Test Cyp a week, do you think I need an AI for that dose?
I get bloods done every 8-12 weeks now, but it used to be more frequent when I was starting.
Many people get bloods with the online companies, but some states don't allow it. Many of those people drive to get them done.
My guess is that you'll be fine at that dose without an AI, at least for a while. You need to look for signs of high estro and get some bloods done about 6-8 weeks into your run. You also need to have your cholesterol and other values checked as well, since TRT can and will affect them. You can have a doctor do those by saying you want your numbers checked.
At that low of a dosage I do not need it but I always keep some on hand in case I start feeling and sensitivity. Good luck brother! I hope you feel better!
Well I met with the Doc and he was cool as FUCK! He's on TRT and maybe like 48 yrs old. He ran over all my symptoms and was it agreement that its probably the cause. The hard part now is getting insurance to pay. He said my insurance is a bitch and they require 1) blood work which my test levels have to be below 165. and then 2) they require an MRI on my pituitary gland to see if there are any tumors causing a reduction in the production of Test.
I got back in 10 days to discuss the blood work. I think he would give me a prescription regardless but not sure what that shit costs w/o insurance. We discussed the Androgel and he said a bottle of that w/o insurance was just under $400!! So fuck that. Im hoping i can get some Watson, at about 100mg every 2 weeks.
" not sure what that shit costs w/o insurance. ".
Good News, in June I picked up 2 @ 10 ml vials of Watson Test Cyp 200 mg/ml with a script at the nation wide drugstore chain, the one that starts with a large red W and mention's green in the last part of their name. Cost was around $85 total for the 2 vials. Use a coupon from goodRX.com for the discount.
Thanks a MILLION!
I found the discount! Lets hope I can get a prescription regardless. I can afford 80.00 and it will last several months.
Great news, I would think it works best when the doctor understands what you are going through and is willing to help. So many doctors act like you are injecting your own death wish with steroids. I would love to find a doctor that was on TRT himself. Good luck and keep updating us.
Thanks JO, appreciate the feedback.
I'm rooting for your, Kingkahn! Thank you for updating this thread. I'm very, very grateful to all of the people who candidly share their experiences on this site.
Thanks Z!
I know that this is HRT but me and many other guys , young and older, who cruise at 300mg test per our local hormone specialist.
granted he makes them all gradually bump the dose from 150mg to where they end up, but i know myself i feel like shit on 300mg/w and cant keep my weight. i usually hang out at 350.
everyone should just make sure and get bloods but dont get tied up in just one number.... look at them all as a whole picture.
300-350mg a week is more like a cycle than TRT. 200 mg a week is pretty much the high end of the range.
The whole health system sucks.I am 50 and I had a test level of 96 and was so frustrated with my primary care I started my own TRT treatment. I have been doing it for almost 2 years. My test levels are now too high at 2,000 so I agreed to see an endo. We (endo and myself) came to an agreement that before my next appointment i would be at 100mg test E per week for 2 months before my November appointment. I feel great but I know I have made mistakes, even with all the info on this site. I will see how I feel at the 100mg per week and have endo check my blood work. If I dont feel good, like I did before my TRT, I will continue and try to use all the advise I have been given her on this site. I do wish I had seen the endo before I started. I told my endo that I dont want to be at the average end of the test spectrum, I dont beleive we are all the same. I want my test levels to be on the higher side if that is where i feel better. I spent years being lethargic, unable to focus and couldnt lose weight, I am not going back to that. Just my 2 cents! Good luck brother.
I'm in the same boat,
Have had multiple leg surgeries and cant recover. Throw in lethargic and i cant cut any weight, esp off the belly. I mean I could eat 1200 calories a day and feel like im not losing any weight. just dont feel "alive". if you know what i mean.
Anyways, I have my first appt in 3 days. Will post back once i've gone and see what they say.
It sure is. Im 47 and when I speak to my physician about low test levels and wanting to feel better via TRT or "self" TRT, the doctor who in appearance is half my age tells me that Im 47, how do you think your supposed to feel. I was so aggravated that I invited him to my gym to go through one of my workouts which he promptly declined. I guess for now, self TRT is going to be my route. Ive learned so much here and contribute when I can based on my learning and am very happy to be doing what Im doing. My older brother was by and was amazed how Im looking and asked if I was preparing for another show!!!!
palmcoaster - glad to hear I am not alone. Just because I am 50 doesn't mean I want to roll over and die. I know all to well about the aches and pains that I did not have at 25 but I love the way I feel now. I really do feel better than when I was younger. Keep fighting the fight!
You and me both.Once I started adding some test back to my depleted system I felt rejuvenated.
What a cluster fuck health insurance is.
Got referral from primary after showing her results , she referred me to an Endo.
Well its been 6 weeks, after 2 weeks I called, and they said "we never got your referral"
So i had it resent and confirmed it. 2 weeks again go by. Called endo, "we havent reviewed your file yet".
Another 2 weeks goes by, called back "we havent reviewed your file yet".
Told em to fuck off. Called my health insurance, got a new referral to an Endo doc, Had an appt 30 minutes later.
So I got this friday and hopefully will have something to report back soon and see what they say/offer.
Thanks all
Baldur2630There are two groups out there, first, the ones who urge you to visit doctors, endocrinologists, urologists or whatever. I sometimes think a lot of these people are trolls and doctors themselves. If you take the trouble to read some of the horror stories from people (like myself), who have found them to be fucking useless areseholes, you may, start to think about what will happen, how long it will take and what it will cost.
The other group are people who have been there, done it and worn the T-Shirt and who regard doctors as brainwashed morons and parasites who prey on gullible people.
You should never undertake any form of treatment without PROPER blood tests and if you leave it to the corrupt medical profession, you'll get a STANDARD blood trst, which ignores Free Testosterone, Estradiol, Prolactin, TSH, SHBG, viatmin D and everything else which is actually useful.
Total Testosterone is absolutely USELESS, it's only Free Testosterone which matters. I had a total T of almost 500 and I had to actually threaten my doctor to get a proper blood test. When it came back I had almost ZERO Free testosterone and the so-called endo, refused to treat me because I was too old and because my total T was very high for a man of my age.
In the 4 months it took, almost having to resort to violence to get a proper blood test and the time between all the bullshit appointments and the money it cost, I regretted every day that I hadn't got stroppy from day one.
Get bloodwork FULL and the do the research ask the questions and DO IT YOURSELF..
The medical profession WANT you to be sick, so they can keep their cash registers ringing and keep churning out hundreds more brainwashed morons every year and rake in the interest on their shares in the big pharma companies.
By now you should have and idea as to what I (and hundreds of others like me) think about the medical profession.
There are hundreds of articles showing the horrors of the dreaded steroids, usually proved by injecting rats with massive overdoses. I'm not a fucking rat, I don't overdose and I'm not a big enough idiot to believe even one tenth of the utter shite that the 'learned medical professors' spew out out steroids and things like HGH.
Do what Dcl88 said and ask to visit a urologist instead - and also say you are afraid of the side effects of the creams and gels (some of which are horrific - I suffered some of them and you do NOT want them) so you want to do self injections of testosterone.
Urologists can prescribe testosterone and is your best bet. After closely monitoring you for a few months, he will send you on your own to return for yearly check ups.
EDIT: I am 46, started on Androgel a few years ago and got a ton of mental side effects from the delivery agent. Switched to the stuff you wipe on your armpit and my body sweated all the test out immediately so none got into my system. I then went on self injections and have been happier ever since. 150mg a week of test-cyp.
I would ask for a referral for a urologist instead. He/she will be more helpful with other issues in the long term.
Lab Results:
https://www.eroids.com/pics/blood-levels-trt-candidate
Thanks everyone.
Not really asking exactly, just looking more for guys who maybe are on TRT around my age, what to expect, etc?
Gonna post my labs with my levels.
I really do appreciate all the help.
Not sure why you're asking. Choosing between a trained Endo and some guys on the internet...
Wait until you see what your endo has to say and what he prescribes. Try that out and then come back and see if you want to go in another direction. Always give your physician a chance to work things out and stay with it as long as it's working.