ESTRO Problems with Sust + Tren A, what to do now???
Hey tribe, currently on modified TRT (stay with me now, I know I'm going to get flamed but need your help)...
I'm on 200 Sust a week, currently bridging over to Test Cyp.
Was running running the Sust and had my Test at a nice level with the my E levels at 13.1 (ref range 7.6 - 42.6). The problem was my Prolactin was FLATLINED. Straight up 0. I had ED and havent had morning wood in at least 6 months on this protocol.
Hadn't taken Caber in at least 6 months and hadn't taken anything besides low dose Sust and Aromasin as my AI.
I'd previously had good success with using Tren, so I brought it in at a moderate dose 25mg a day to hopefully raise my Prolactin levels because I'm sure thats what was causing the ED problems.
Great overall well being etc etc, you know the drill I had it nailed. But after about 10-14 days I could feel my Estro rising and obviously my SUPERMAN status running away pretty quickly.
Got tested this week and Prolactin is now 2.7 (ref range 4.0 - 15.2) so still low, but better than ZERO.
My Estradiol however is now 73.5 (ref range 7.6 - 42.6), fucking 5 times what it was on the same dose of Sust & Aromasin. This is all to the blame on the Tren A correct?
Here were my dosages without Tren:
200mg Sust - weekly
25mg Liquid Aromasin (MaximPep) - daily
With Tren:
200mg Sust - weekly
25mg Liquid Aromasin, since the test have increased this to 32.5mg - daily
175mg Tren A (25mg ED) - weekly
WHAT DO I DO NOW?
ANY help and guidance without getting flamed would be hugely appreciated, cheers guys!
Side note - I did my first shot of 250IUs of HCG to bring the balls back and hopefully some libido two days ago. I'm due to do second shot tonight but I'm thinking I should get my Estro down before adding in more factors to the equation correct?
Sorry if I sound like a rookie. Honestly not trying to damage myself in anyway, just wanting overall well being, health and function. Not a bodybuilder by any means.
EDIT: Have made an appointment with a Dr to get under medical guidance and care, will hope that he knows what to do with the Prolactin problem I was having. Stopping the low dose Tren and will let me body normalize (hopefully) and my Prolactin flatline again. Will still continue with 250IUs of HCG and bring the Test Cyp down to 150mg/wk from 200.
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If I remember correctly, I thought that tren messes up the lab results for estro. Your estro maybe just fine but the lab results will be way out of whack because the tren interferes with how they analyze the e2.
StatsAge: 26Height: 6'4Weight: 210BF: 10
Hey bro...are your stats up to date?
post an unidentifiable pic?
Rank: BASICKarma: 0Friends: 28Since: Jun 17th, 2012Last: Aug 5th, 2016
Hey mate, sorry no those stats aren't up to date.
I'm 190 now and between 7-9%, 26.
Not trying to screw anyone around. Getting a Sensitive Bloods test done on Monday, will post results and hopefully get some help in leveling down to a healthy place, or completely coming off.
I saw the FR you sent. What's the length of time you been been injecting sust, like over a year and a half, or what? And what other bloodwork did you get?
Edit...I see you been TRT for 2 yrs...
Hey mate, yeah sent one your way because you seemed like a really hood guy. And yeah over a year and a half.
In regards to blood work are you talking about the latest round or all of my blood works ever? I can send you a screenshot of the latest test.
Every blood test that's recent would help us...it's obvious you shut yourself down with the sust, more than likely at the 20 week mark. That's sucks, especially with four esters and one being decanoate of test.
By shut myself down you mean my Prolactin levels? Or just my natural levels that were already under natural levels?
I'll get onto those blood tests now. Scared to post them here, the flaming is getting to me. I'm just trying to do my best. The only reason for adding Tren was to increase Prolactin (which it has) and for no other reason.
If that was the worst move of all time, I'll happily happily stop. But removing the Tren will remove all Prolactin like it did last time and have me back to being useless.
Your exogenous testosterone administration of four esters of testosterone (ie) Sustanon, helped your hpta stop producing natural testosterone. And, that same shit can happen with one ester, too, like cyp, or enan.
Your cycle history, or for all practical purpose, exogenous hormone use should be disclosed. What I'm looking for here is a possible etiology of why you may have low total testosterone levels to begin with. Did I miss that posted by you somewhere else? I haven't cross-referenced your other forums or looked through your track, but for clarification, it would be nice to know.
Ed has given some great advice about stopping what you're doing and using PCT meds to get you out of the rut you're in. And, I agree. Your post about banging chicks needs.to be removed. It has no relevance to this situation. If you think it does, then reword it, and make yourself sound decent and mature. It would be beneficial if you posted the bloods.you have, and it would be good for you to get ready to get some more bloodwork, if you want to.fix your problem. Remeber, bro, you're in class right now on an online forum that is the best in the world.
Completely agree on the banging chicks comment, completely inappropriate, my apologies board.
Your DM was hugely helpful and I'm taking it all in. I'm downloading the bloods again now and compiling them against what the protocol was at that time.
Ready to take whatever flaming I receive if it helps me fix this problem. Thanks a million mate, more than appreciate it.
did you learn from this lesson? How you answer will determine if these guys help. Admit you fucked up and admit your in over your head and im sure you will get advice.
What makes this even funnier is 5 months ago this guy was crying about boner problems. Lol. Even had his balls busted by the great Vike over his trt.
This is a kid who needs natural selection to weed him out of the gene pool.
...self prescribed trt with tren. Lmao.
I'm 100% in over my head, admittedly I tried to fix my zero prolactin problem by myself. Should've asked the board before doing so.
I would LOVE to find the solution to a long term solution that has my levels in range asap.
Thanks for the comment mate, appreciate the pointers. The flaming stings but I'll take the punches.
That's All I'll give you. Get of the juice today and give it a year.
I'm sure you won't take the advice and we'll see another post from you in six months crying about boner problems...but hey YOLO bro YOLO!
Just curious though...you were a newlywed six months ago...did it not work out or are you just one of those fellas who bangs other chicks when you're out of town?
I'd happily answer any of these questions if I thought you had the slightest bit of care for me and my wellbeing. Please stop commenting here if you can. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just getting overwhelmed with all your flaming.
Just wanting help from people that can help.
Oh man, I'm sorry for being so insensitive. I didn't realize that my flaming was hurting you. I get to having a good time with bro's like yourself and figured we are all having fun bashing each other. I forget that you are dealing with an endocrine system of a 17 year old girl and that my bashing isn't look at as jest but insultation.
I should probably be a little kinder And softer and not capitalize on your lack of testicular fortitude. I hope you forgive me. Sometime in a high testosterone environment I forget that underneath all of it that your inner self is a pinocha just trying to find solutions. Sorry bro.
Hahaha yep, well played. You're all good and about any other topic I'll take the punches. It was the dying young comment that caught me in the ribs, because thats the last thing I want.
I get it though, anytime someone takes Tren it looks like they're trying to become the next Zyzz or whatever Gym bro in his 20's thats shredded. I'm so happy to stop the low Tren like I mentioned, just not happy to have Prolactin at 0 again. That day in and day out was brutal.
LMFAO...:)
Prolactin is regulated by estrogen and dopamine, so if your estrogen was that low then it is entirely possible that your prolactin is low to none. Likewise if you are taking anything that raises dopamine it will suppress prolactin.
So if estro is low and you are increasing dopamine your prolactin can be non existent. Are you taking any other OTC or Rx meds? List everything you take no matter how insignificant you think it may be.
And by the way, adding Tren to a cycle just to try and raise prolactin was not a smart move.
Really appreciate the reply mate.
Besides sleeping pills (melatonin, GABA, Unisom), and creatine.
Sustanon (now bridging to Cyp) + Tren A + Aromasin is EVERYTHING I take.
Am I right to assume that 32.5mg Aromasin is a HUGE fucking dose for an AI especially at my levels?
I'm reading about Tren potentially screwing around with the readings from PrivateMDLabs, but the issue is that I feel the effects of High E. Nips are a little puffier, not at all sensitive, but puffier. I'm currently around 8% so I can tell the second my nips get puffy.
And then the slight ED. Its nothing major, I could still bang like a champ, but I know I'm far from peaking. And scared of the health effects from High E, just like I am Low E.
Yeah man that aromasin dose is way too much, I wouldn't even run that high of a dose on 750mg of test. You need to let your estro get back up into a healthy range
My latest reading was that I had double what would have my E in a normal range?
I've always been E sensitive, even when I was just my normal LowT self my E was on the upper range. Had the puffy tits syndrome since I was 16.
If I bring the Aromasin down to 25mg instead of 32.5 what do I do about my E being that high?
I see, I think the Tren is messing with your e2 reading. If adding the Tren was the only difference I think you are not getting an accurate number. Only way to know for sure is to stop the cycle and get some more blood work. I would highly recommend you see an endo as soon as possible and be honest about what you have been doing
This. Tren is notorious for that.
Also remember that low E2 can cause ED.
If OP would've have posted here before starting the tren a, he would have been in a better position to fix his issue....
Yeah, but you know hindsight lol. As long as he is here now ready to admit he fucked up and needs help its all good. I wish more people could just nut up and own their shit and learn from the experience.
I really appreciate the help mate, all ears to anyway out of this problem now that I've fucked up and tried to fix it myself.
Do you agree with MedDX that off everything exogenous is best forward even low dose T?
I'm scared to go back to my natural T production as it was already below healthy when I was completely natural, now after having been shutdown for so long I'm honestly even more concerned.
Nevermind....:)
Bro why do you have to lie about your natural test levels? You and I both know that's bullshit. Did you forget that you posted your off cycle test levels a couple of years ago?
Remember when you posted a level of 23.7 nmol/L?
For the Americans that's 684 ng/dL
That was taken way after you completed a PCT, so don't give us this bullshit sob story about how bad your natty levels were.
I've gone through and looked at all of your posts and it's absolutely clear that you have been reckless and an absolute abuser of steroids. Every damn post of yours is a "Help" post. You have no business being on the juice especially running trt. You are young, stupid, and irresponsible. You won't make 40 years old bro. Looking at your history and seeing this bullshit lie...I say bring the sides. You deserve everything you get.
You have prove with your lie and your past that any help you get will just be enabling you through this path of destruction. So, I am going to give you a negative 2 for lying, and probably a negative 2 to anyone who helps you because I believe that any advice other than getting off everything is just helping you kill you self.
Hope that helps
All my love
No homo
Ed
Here is the post proving your lie
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/high-lh-bloo...
Hey mate, I deserve everything you wrote, don't disagree with any of it.
Those labs were correct, but my Test levels did keep falling after that. Once I was off PCT completely was the lowest and they never came back up. Wasn't trying to lie but I can see how it appears that I was.
Once again, completely agree and deserve the flame.
How would you advise I go off? Cold turkey?
I have two Dr appointments made for 3 weeks from now.
Completely understand if you don't think I'll listen to any advice you give me, but I'd more than appreciate it if you can.
I guess the best advice that I can give to you is to purchase high grade lactating pads to have on hand to keep your titties from leaking through your shirt in public. I would suggest picking up a very high end dildo so that you can use it to please your wife Since your dick isn't going to work, and I suggest picking up a respectable life insurance plan.
That's the only help I'll give.
You are the kind of guy that gives juicers a bad name because you are ultimately going to kill yourself over this shit.
The only light that I see at the end of the tunnel is knowing you like won't ever be able to have kids.
Hope that helps ya bloody liar.
I know everyone is different and I don't know what Ed will say about cold turkey, but from my experience coming off in the past left my mind foggy and frazzled, to say the least. Therefore, transitioning from sust to Cyp and titrating slowly off might have to be a consideration. However, the hcg might just be enough to help you drop it cold turkey, but if you start getting foggy minded, frustrated and irritated as the test levels fall you're going to have to be ready.
He was delayed in response with critical data needed to provide further information...thanks for putting this up...I've about had it, today, already...and this started yesterday...
Not sure what you are asking here.
You testes are probably under-responsive by now, you need to run HCG for some time to get them working again.
I'm on it.
Took second dose of HCG 250IUs today.
Thanks mate.
Hcg can raise estrogen as well
I agree. That's what is good about this place is the anonymity....at least he got bloods and he has started some hcg...if he can stop the tren and sust, then continue some more low dose hcg until his nolva and Clomid arrive, then he may balance...but he sounds like he is in a rut and gonna wind up being on trt....
SMFH
Yep, and your point?
Should I just go off and stick with my 250-300ng/dL Test level that I had from 21 to 24?
Not trying to be a smartass but 'SMFH' does nobody any good, unless it makes you feel good. Then congrats. But I'd love your help or advice if that was at all possible?
I'm with KMC....SMFH. Another perfect example of why kids shouldn't run tren and another perfect example of what not to do.
"Modified trt" ? Seriously bro. I see something like that out of a 26 year old kid and it tells me that you NEED a boner problem to perhaps help you see the light....and to keep a dipshit like yourself from reproducing.
Holy shit.
Sorry cracker, no help from me. Good luck in Austin. Perhaps I'll see you there. I'll be the guy who can still get a boner.
Mate 'a dipshit like yourself from reproducing.'
Still a human being with feelings mate. Won't pretend like insults from a stranger don't hurt.
Like I said, not trying to fuck myself up. If you have any other suggestions for raising Prolactin then I'm all ears and will HAPPILY drop the Tren in a heartbeat.
I'm sorry bro. That was pretty short-sighted of me to be rude right off the bat. I've been dealing with a lot lately. I lost my steak guy the other day and to be honest, my boner has been working overtime to make up for it. It's tough bro. Here I am almost 40 years old and dead sexy with this fully functioning wiener. I try to have sympathy, but I read things like trt and tren at 26 years old and I worry about your future.
If you are having boner problems at 26...holy shot bro wait until you are my age. Granted...it's probably a safe bet that you'll be dead but hey, at least you enjoyed it...minus the boner problem.
My advice...get off everything, jump into an aggressive pct and stay off for at least a year to let your body return to homeostasis. It will take a while, but I'm confident that at 26 you might recover.
Tren can be a pretty bad friend when it starts messing with your prolactin.
Step away from it all.
What's the problem with TRT at 26? I mean, if he was hypogonadal and unable to raise his T, what solution would you have in mind? Staying hypo for life?
I have been on TRT since 24 (tT 150 ng/dl, fT 8 pg/ml), had ED with genital anesthesia at the time, even now I can't manage to get full boner (has been four yrs).
Is it my fault? Did I "fuck my sh*t up"? I don't think so, and also might not be the case for OP, although he did something foolish by adding tren.
GnarkillI read your steak post at first I was like wtf and then realized it was fucking funny as shit. I got a ribeye waiting for me tonight
I appreciate that mate, and sorry about the problems you've been having.
Theres honestly nothing more I'd love to do than to get off everything and just wake up and go about life not having to worry about pinning and dosing and this and that.
But my normal homeostatis is unhealthy for me. I got 6 blood tests over 3yrs, and they all read out of range. I went to 7 Dr's (this is when I was in Australia) they all sent me to Endo's who all refused to put me on TRT and said that they'd try *insert natural remedy here.
I genuinely tried them all and genuinely was never in range at any point. I don't know if I ever was.
So yeah for the past 2yrs I've been on TRT. I HATE IT. But I don't like my other option of being constantly depressed and unable to get out of bed. But more than that allllll of the risks associated with low T.
At least with TRT there is a hope of being in a healthy state one day. Please feel free to disagree if I'm missing something. Genuinely.
Well being on TRT myself for low t (and peers too) I feel your problems.
What you ought to do now is to return your system to homeostasis, and something like tren won't help with that.
Even if your PRL was implicated in ED, introducing tren isn't really wise, it's not appreciated for being "boner-friendly".
Yes low t is associated with various health ailments and poor well-being, but you need to do TRT the right way, drop the sustanon and switch to cyp/enanthate. Don't overdo it, keeping levels high for long isn't healthy either. Try bi-weekly or E5D injections, weekly pins offer poor levels stability. Stay at 150mg/w max.
Are you checking your CBC regularly? What is your hematocrit?
Hey mate, yep, checking my CBC regularly. I'm not sure how to post a screenshot of it in here, any tips?
But long story short my Hematocrit is High at 49.5 but just within range. I'm very concerned about staying on Tren long term, as I am with having Zero Prolactin long term as well.
Thanks for your help mate, at the moment I'm doing EOD injections. Will move completely over to Test Cyp from now on. Cheers mate.
Edited. unnecessary comment on my behalf.