Why do so many nattys resent juicers?
Maybe one of you psychology bros can help me out here. Here's the very quick backstory.
Started lifting at 13. Underwent the typical anti-drug rants at the behest of D.A.R.E. in middle school; of course steroids were discussed in the same breath as narcotics. Typical "steroid users are cheaters and liers" propaganda. Even as a non lifting 12 year old, I saw right through the bullshit.
shrug I didn't resent steroid users.
Probably around 15 I came to understand that all my bodybuilding idols--Arnold, Dorian, Ronnie, Sergio, Serge, Lou, the usual suspects--all used steroids. My reaction was, paraphrased: "K."
I didn't resent steroid users.
Around 18 or 19 I noticed some friends whom I graduated high school with definitely started using, per their ridiculous growth as evidenced on Facebook photos. That's cool. "They're looking swole," I thought.
I still didn't resent steroid users.
Then I found bodybuilding dot com. I only ever lurked, but what a shithole that place is, seriously. Same goddamned topics everyday. What's attainable natty? Is Jeff Seid natty? Is Simeon Panda natty? Is Zyzz natty? Are Hodge twins natty? Is… you get the point. Between this natty vs enhanced obsession and all the vitriol in the convos, it's clear that there's a lot of bitterness nattys harbor towards steroid users.
I still didn't resent steroid users.
Don't even get me started on YouTube. Go to any natty's channel (oh, they'll let you know they're natty, don't worry) and read the comments. You'd be led to believe we're the absolute scum of the earth; just complete reckless, cheating, lying, stupid, mentally ill pieces of shit. At that point, it's like, okay, what the fuck?
I have never in my life resented steroid users, even well before I ever so much as considered using them.
Even fake nattys! Yeah, I mean, lying to sell product is fucked, but damn, it's not their fault it's illegal. I mean, come on, I at least understand the logic behind it. What I do have a problem with is constantly and actively lying about use and claiming natty to make a profit. It's selling false hope just like religion. All you gotta do is keep your mouth shut. Not hard. Even then, there's no resentment towards steroid users in general there.
What I'm interested in is this: when you were natty, did YOU ever harbor a resentment towards juicers? If so, why, and what would you say to your natty self if you could talk to him now?
For any vets: is this purely an internet age thing? Is it a millennial thing? Or did you notice this kind of blind hatred and misrepresentation back in the day as well?
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I never had an opinion on them, positive or negative. However, when I decided I wanted to compete I started to see the war between nattys and non nattys. It colored my view and I wanted to be a natural competitor and based on how I put on muscle I could do well against enhanced competitors. At the same time the only AAS that I knew of was test. Being an athlete into my early 20's however, has taken its toll on my body and I have had multiple soft tissue injuries.
1 year post op from my last injury, I said fuck it and I want to be able to continue to push my body and protect myself from injury, so I researched AAS, boy did that change my mentality and outlook. I am also medical and look at them from a medical viewpoint. I do wish there were more double blind studies though.
My only thing against cycling is it does kind of fuck with you mentally, also I believe if you're over 40 you should be on TRT. I don't believe in cycling despite my history until you're over 40 and you've been training for a while and in decent shape. Anything I ever wanted to achieve cycling I could've done naturally but that few times I cycled messed me up with how good I felt psychologically and that's why I crave it. Other than that Ive been off since September, before that were a couple of prop and Var cycles cut short last big cycle for me was 2014 2015. I'm trying to stay away despite hoarding until I'm in my 40s. But overall I'm against it if you have good genetics and you're in your 20s or 30s. If you're trying to do a competition that's the only acception I'll make but then again I don't think people should even do that until they're in their late 20s
That's cool. I respect that. I don't need everyone to be crazy about the lifestyle choices of me and people like me. I've been shunned most of my life; I'm well used to it by now.
Haha me too bro. I sound like a hypocrite
I would say in this irrationally emotional time we live in combine with all the media "outrage" of sports enhancement certainly drives this resentment.
This post reminds of that twit on YouTube - Steroidsareforlosers. Who says steroids are the "Devils juice".
Some Natties have this bs idea in their head that steroids create "fake muscle". Anything but the truth. This is an everyone gets a trophy society now so I can fully understand how self centered , low self esteem people, need to hate on others to make their own miserable lives a bit more tolerable. Like that twiggy twit Vegangains .
Personally I have a problem with people who obviously use gear and lie through their teeth about it. While I understand the slippery slope of legality but to give people completely unrealistic expectations , especially while shilling products is pure bullshit.
As for Millennials...this is era of the "skinny jeans" and "muscle shamers "
I just don't think very many people like themselves today. Not sure how or when that started but I believe its rampant today.
My buddy is really into the physique thing. He does OK, but usually takes like 3rd etc. I mentioned gear to him and got a lecture on how gear is cheating blah blah blah. I've never talked about gear use, and i will deny it if it comes up. He eats like a bird, and blames steroids if someone is bigger than him.
Taking advantage of scientific advances is cheating. Yep. We'd better stop taking advantage of modern medicine and engineering too. Look at this guy with a pacemaker! Cheater. And look, she's driving a car to work. Cheater.
These wonderful, wonderful things called anabolic steroids were engineered; damn right we're gonna use 'em. No limits baby
I have always resented them because people who take steroids have roid rage and will either kill someone or themselves or both, havent you read the news.
I knew roid rage was totes real after the Chris Benoit murder-suicide. I mean, it just has to have been the TRT dose of cyp he was using that made him do it, not the CTE brain damage from taking chairs to the head for a living. Couldn't have been the xanax and alcohol found in his system at the time of his death either. Well that's just silly. Yep. Had to have been the steroids!
The only caveat I have is the addiction side and the feel of being invincible some compounds create. People take steroids for a few main reasons and one of those is to alter your physique. This can be dangerous to people with a predisposition to addiction. The diet, the work in the gym and the gear turn your physique into something great and one can go overboard with all of these aspects and it can become detrimental to one's health. It's like King Midas syndrome for some. But actual compounds having an addictive effect on the brain or binding to certain chemo receptors in the brain is unfounded.
One of my best friends told me he had to stop using because of the way what ever he was on made him feel amazing, super strong and his libido was through the roof. For about two years he was on a continuous cycle.
The gear hate is similar to football players being labeled as aggressive or woman beaters. Like it has nothing to do with the fact that their job is to hit and hit other men hard, years of concussions which we now have enough evidence to link to brain damage, especially in the frontal lobe.
Fear and hate mongering and ignorance are such powerful tools.
The way I see it, almost everyone is addicted to something. You know what, if the worst someone ever gets addicted to is using steroids, training, and dieting, I'd say he or she is doing okay, considering. Could be crack, heroin, alcohol, gambling, meth, or all of the above. As long as there's some semblance of responsibility, I believe this addiction can be a positive one for most people.
Ha, touche. I have only been told a few horror stories about some guy someone knew twice removed, and well you usually only hear the bad since discussing the positives of AAS is still so taboo.
I never resented steroids, I did recent a friend who was on them claiming to be natural. We worked out together in our early 20's and he would talk shit because he was killing it and I wasn't. True was, I was actually lifting wright wise what he was, but the "look," he was getting in the mirror was better then mine. He wasn't running proper, apparently, because now he looks bad. I'm guessing no PCT ect... any who, my older brother was always honest and made me wait until I was 23, and showed me the instructions and what not.
Haters gonna hate no matter what. I was all natty until I went on trt.
I think that there's so much way to take gear that generalization isn't the right method to approach this topic. I mean, what's the line between a natty and a juiced guy? With sarms, serms, beta agonists, ai, prohormones, research chemicals, metformin ecc the line between natty and non natty is thinner than ever, so this topic is difficult to treat Imho. Then resentment is born from the feeling of being envy of other success in certain areas, so I'll say that guy runs 3 gr of aas and peptides /week, if I'm a failure it's because I'm natty/light juiced.
^^^^ As stated above, envy. Too scared to try, and too dumb to live and let live.
never resented them
Above all else I can remember being natty in the gym and thinking... how the fuck can I get like that?
Was natural tell about two weeks ago. Been lifting 20 years and ya there was some resentment at the time. I took it as taking the easy way out. Thought it was cheating like running a mile around the track and juicers only had to run one lap while everyone else had to run 4. Obviously don't feel that same way now but I sure did when I was younger.
Even with juice it's still hard fucking work. Meal prepping and all the other stuff that comes with it
AnonIts the same thing with people who bench and claim numbers raw vs shirted i suppose. I see people who bench shirted claim bs numbers, but then again i use steriods so are my numbers legit raw? At the end of the day, I do what I do and I sleep fine at night.
What gets me is the ignorance of the media when it comes to powerlifting. It's usually just some thumbnail on a sports site with an absurd headline like "high school football player benches 600 lbs!" Click the link, watch the vid, kid's obviously wearing a multi-ply. That's cool, don't get me wrong. But the article--every single time--never mentions the shirt, or even the fact that equipped powerlifting exists. Hell, most people who don't follow powerlifting don't even know it exists.
When I powerlifted I always made sure to include the words "paused" and "raw" after I answered the question to people who asked. It threw them off when I answered in kgs too: "200 raw, paused at 100."
AnonI know where you're coming from brother.
I honestly never paid it much mind. After I started lifting in my late 30's I had no intention of using them until about 3-4 years after I started lifting. And honestly that came about because I realized I was throwing my money away at GNC. T-boosters,lol
Its because we have the upper hand on them because we use we look better. Most of those guys that hate don't understand how much hard work even a aas user has to do to get the results. They think we just inj and boom were mass monsters. The more haters you have proves that you are doing it right
I do wish I had waited until around 30 to start to use but unfortunately I started early because I was an athlete and even at high school level the coach had us taking test and androstiendion-17 and nor androstiendion-19
I would say wait
I'm not so sure. I've seen my share of Natty's who look better then others who I know are juiced out of there mind. At the end of the day its hard work/ genetics which build a good physique, natty or enhanced.
X2
I definitely agree that what you put in is what you will get out natty or juiced. I believe there are plenty of guys juicing that don't know what there doing and are far behind someone who is natty that knows what he is doing.
This isn't taking genetics AKA the most powerful force in biology into account
I've seen it first hand. Got to eat and train right or its all for nothing.
That coach would be in a world of shit if he got caught. Pressuring the kids he's coaching to use in high school? Come on. Bush league shit. It makes ya wonder about the people who still don't believe pro athletes juice, though. Please…
And you are right. I won't lie. I was expecting the results to be just a little more dramatic my first cycle. It was this tempering of expectations that actually led me down the path of taking my diet much more seriously. I worked hard as a natural, but I have never worked harder in my life than I am right now (off at the moment), because now I know what to expect, and I know what it takes, both in the gym and in the kitchen.
Besides--and nattys would hate to admit this--just by the physics definition of "work," juicers who are on average much stronger and have a higher work capacity and recovery rate are performing more work than naturals are with very few exceptions, period. When naturals say they work harder, I think they really mean they have more heart or dedication or whatever. And I won't dispute that, because intangibles are just that. Intangible.
The coach is in federal prison for being part of a organization that supplied high school college and professional players in all sports plus olympic athletes very famous ones also with the gear they needed or wanted. He wasn't the big fish but he and many others snitched including pro athletes who got caught because they actually kept records.
Its a crazy but true story
I learned one main thing growing up with my goomba roots.
Worry about yourself. Worry about your immediate family. Worry about your close friends. I knew absolute shit about steroids until I became a TRT patient. Some of the guys I grew up with dabbled in it. The bigger friends I have never used it. The ones that did were scrawny to begin with. I always asked myself if their use of drugs would affect me in any way and when the answer was no I didn't care.
People are people and will do and say anything for the almighty dollar bill. I don't watch those youtube channels, I dont follow any of them because your eyes will bleed and you will get even dumber for watching.
I sometimes pull up one that interests me where it is someone well known and is not spewing hate to make a few clicks. Once I see them fall I unsubscribe and never watch them again.
Poco might have a point with the liberalism thing. "Worry about yourself" to me means I don't give a shit what other people do behind closed doors, as long as it's not hurting anyone else and, if sexual, consensual and with of age partners. It's not a politics thing, as people seem to immediately relate the word liberal to the political landscape. I don't care about politics. I don't think I've read or watched one thing about Trump since he was elected. That's how much I care. What I do care about is "live and let live."
Live and let pin, in this case.
Its a tough one, damned if you do, damned if you dont.
AnonThat resentment you feel is from your deep seeded liberal roots.
Stop hating and let man cash that youtube cheque.
Do you resent liberals? If so, where does that stem from?
AnonBirth.
=)
Sorry for the well of text. TL;DR, just skip to the last two paragraphs