T-4 or T-3 debate pertaining to HGH
I know some of you are HGH users and many will go way over the 2iu recommendation as I do. I would like to see how many people are interested in the debate over T-3 or T-4. I tend to lean T-4 given the evidence appears to indicate the T-3 is relatively stable while on even 4-6 iu's and that if anything the T-4 drops off. By taking T-4 the body will convert 80% to T-3 anyway...or so the the new science indicates. I really hope there are enough HGH users here to have a discussion about your experiences either way. I am informed by a couple of top competition builders that argue the T-3 works great for them but I am always looking for what works better and the T-4 argument seems sound....let me know what you think and make your argument either way. I will post a good link if the discussion actually breaks out for those interested to read.
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I take it you have been reading Mr Roberts...
I agree with you on the T4 over the T3, although I think the 80% conversion rate is a tad high. According to published articles T4 is normally present in human serum in approximately 50 fold excess of circulating T3, and accounts for more than 90 percent of the circulating protein-bound iodine. T4 is 99.9 percent bound to serum thyroxine binding proteins (TBP). With less than 0.03% of the total circulating T4 being unbound and therefore biologically active I feel the 80% is high. However, high or not, it is a fact that the majority of T3 is derived from the 5’-deiodination of T4.
For me, there are two key facts that win over the T4 debate.
So with the half life of T4 being ~6.5 days (1.6 days for T3), and the therory of the conversion that aids GH, it does seem logical that keeping optimal levels T4 and letting the conversion take place would benefit over taking T3 outright.
Time for more research.
tread-mYour thoughts have kinda been mine. The conversion process has been my argument given when the body is happy it lets everything it does not need in the happy mode go. So my theory is as yours but I kinda feel as though the couple of guys I reference above are curbing the shut down by using insulin. My thinking has been if I can drop the insulin out of the argument by using t-4 and having similar results why not leave that component out? What are your thoughts on it when arguing isulin/T-3 or just T-4 or do you think there is an argument there at all?
Messing with insulin is some wicked stuff. My thought is you are asking for trouble with it. If you do go there, you need to regulate by testing 2/3 times per day. It's not like 3 or 4 or hg you can just do am or pm and go on about your biz.
Since your post, I have been doing more hardcore research into 4 and the theory of conversion that revs up hg not just the presents of 3. The problem with doing search on "normal" internet is that you get flooded with bodybuilding crap. Mind you, I take my workouts very serious but I want the pure science and the intended use first. Then we can associate it for how we need it. So as I look, I am seeing more about the 4 conversion. And when I have even more, I want to post.
If the 4/hg conversion theory is correct, then it sure would benefit the TRT/HRT longevity arena as well as the bodybuilding arena. And of course the actual intent which is for small statue children.
Since our growth (bone wise) has long since stopped, the question is, does the rev'n of hg with 3 or 4 do us any good in the long run. Sure you get tight soft skin and some fat loss, but is it worth it in the long run if you don't have the $$ to keep it going year over year.
Recent studies have shown that to gain the full benefits of hg you will spend on average 8k a year (via legal means).
So I don't know bro. I think the theory of 4 with hg is better than 3+insulin and hg. I have not, nor intend, to do 3+, but I will try the 4 with hg. Besides, my rat is itching to part of a clinical trial again.
tread-mHaha...hear ya on that rat! I'm like you in that the T-4 just seems to me consistently winning the argument. The proof though that the insulin is somewhat suppressed causing sugar to reside in a little higher volume is kind of valid to me and I think the T-3 does act to help that a bit even if the ratios are in check for some reason. I just lean toward the T-4 for all we have talked about and read. I will say I was not using either as of recently and my BF began to increase, rather quickly in fact. Just overnight almost. I also noticed my muscle mass was dropping off and could tell rather quickly on that as well. So All the typical signs of going off cycle without pct but I was not off cycle. That will turn around in the next few days but my goal is to have it never occur to begin with and I really feel the T-4 will be part of that answer. Well I look forward to your continued research and will continue myself and as to the long term effects I think you look to people such as Stallone...I think he has used it for about 25 years and while he doesn't look 25 he does still maintain a pretty active life and workout program. Like you I think it has a lot more science to come as it pertains to hormone balance and can only get better. I have a good HGH source but I am lookng for a good T-4 source right now. For some reason the supplier I use locally is T-3 only ...Well I know the reason and it is that the bodybuilding community gets stuck when something seems to work and it is sometimes hard to get a change implemented even if it makes perfect sense. So many are using the insulin now that it is hard to get people to back up and look at a different way. I have read about some actually switching around; T-4 for 2 weeks and T-3 for a week. In one way that seems plausible and in another it seems counterproductive so give me your thoughts on that. Pass along a T-4 source if you know one, I lost the one I would trust for it and the one hear I found actually only has T-4 but I can't get an answer as to who made it...important thing for me. Those sorts of things make me nervous underground, The gear from a solid source in the underground is one thing but those types of things and even insulin for example, I wanna know its manufactured with oversight! Hey, a couple of good hgh sources if you ever need them because NO, I wont pay 8000 a year..
One other thought as I weed through the research. T3 is a product of the thyroid. Just as we PCT to help bring the body back into balance, there is no PCT for T3. This leaves the thyroid S.O.L. so to speak. Repeated on/off without taper can (in simple terms) fuck up the thyroid. And yeah, pm me. My rat likes gh