posted Tue, 02/10/2026 - 04:39
1308
+ 3 Sets to failure?
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I still run multiple sets, but only one goes to true failure. Taking every set to failure has started to feel like junk volume to me. Recovery is better and progress is steadier when I focus on form and tempo.
How do you handle failure work - long runs to failure, or one true failure set?
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Every body reacts/responds a bit different but the universal truth is that failure/overload leads to muscle tearing….the goal is micro tearing. Then, let it heal and it is parts of a mm bigger… repeat. Natural, body parts need 3-4 days to heal, up to a weak after major stress….so failure every set seems overkill….
If you are already huge, then power lifting or negatives of 2-4 reps might do the trick. Smaller people like me may want three sets… I like to work where I am failing in the 6-8 range. Once I can work 3 sets of 10, I move the weight up.
Essentially, the lifter who fails at 2 reps does the same tearing, maybe even more as the lifter who fails at 6 reps… micro tearing is a micro tear… so, the only real thing is level of damage. 10x 60kg military press goal failing at 8 is generally ‘safer’ than failing 2nd rep at 100kg because you are more likely tearing muscle, not tendons and joints. You fail at rep 2, could well be tendons just pushed too hard… at 8, it is more likely muscle fatigue… make any sense?
Now, it is an age old truism that 5x10 of anything is just cardio…great for pumps, but slowest growth around…failure is a must, it is more about safety.
More than likely you know your body best of all and if you think something is not working, then go with that…change up is also great…shock the muscles. Your body is used to/programmed to a routine, you change up, it reacts… it needs change.
It was a pro lifter quoted going on 30-years ago in a muscle rag…on the secret of technique… ‘the best way to lift is to push the weight’ that is the secret. All the rest is safety, experience and DIET. I hope this ramble helps someone, there is already a great mass of info here.
Absolutely on blast I go to mechanical failure depending where I'm at in the blast and how my body is feeling if I need more recovery I'll leave some Reps in reserve.
Started doin 2 sets 8-10 reps and man it's been a game changer
I only run my sets to failure once a month my sets are slow and with lighter weight got better results this way plus my joints feel a whole of hell a lot better.
I' used to do a lot of volume leaving about 2 reps in reserve. Lately I like to do 1-2 warm up sets and 2 hard failure sets for each exercise. Lowered the volume alot
I personally have been going to failure on my working sets for the last year or so and I don't think I could go back to anything different. It just doesn't feel like I put in the work or did anything otherwise, leaving the gym not feeling fatigued feels like a waste of time. This typically looks like a feeler set of 6-8 followed by 2 sets of 10 with the reps in the 8-10 range being a little out of form and/or partials.
My leg days are another story, I'm not training to be a strength monster like I was in sports and too many old injuries to be loading 5 plates on back squat, so legs are typically 3 sets with almost every set being a drop set. Seems to work for me, am I getting the same hypertrophy as I was back in the day doing heavy ass low rep set of squats a couple times a week? Probably not.
Ive also only been enhanced (if thats what you want to call 240mg of test LMFAO) for a bit so well see how everything changes once I get into an actual blast.
Hypertrophy is optimal when you’re close enough to failure … that’s the real driver.
And there are many types of failure, not just one.
You’ve got:
Technical failure … when form starts to break down (usually where I like to stop most sets)
Concentric failure … can’t complete the rep
Eccentric failure … can’t control the negative anymore
Total failure … which honestly isn’t even muscular, it’s more CNS burnout. That one is well documented and not something I chase.
There are many ways and philosophies to train, but the common ground is simple:
If you’re not reaching failure or getting very close to it, you’re leaving hypertrophy on the table.
High, medium, low volume … all can work. But proximity to failure is what actually triggers growth.
Sure, you can build muscle without ever touching failure, but then genetics matter way more. You have to be gifted. We all know that guy doing pushups and pullups at the park who gets jacked while others grind in the gym for years lmao
I’ve tested pretty much everything over time, and for me:
High intensity + low to moderate volume is king.
After warmup and feeder sets … 1-2 working sets, eventually 1 back off set. Sometimes cluster / muscle round advanced techniques… but usually I keep it low to moderate volume w/ high intensity.
I’m not a high-volume guy anymore like I was in my teens. Recovery, joints, CNS … everything responds better this way, and progress stays consistent.
At the end of the day, it’s a never-ending discussion… but it’s always good hearing different perspectives. That’s how we all sharpen our own approach.
Well said. I agree proximity to failure is the real driver, not chasing absolute failure every set. I’m basically using technical failure on most working sets, then one true all-out set if it makes sense for that movement. Anything past that starts feeling more CNS than muscle for me.
Every set to failure works for me when I am on cycle. The after 5 months I think my CNS burns out and I stop growing. The I take two to three weeks off and I’m reset.
Honestly pretty similar approach. The data backs you up too — taking every set to failure doesn't really produce more hypertrophy than stopping 1-2 reps short of failure, but it does tank your recovery and accumulate way more fatigue. So you're basically paying a higher cost for the same gains.
I usually keep my working sets to where I've got like 1-2 good reps left in the tank, with controlled eccentrics and a pause at stretch, then take the last set to true failure or even hit a mechanical drop set if I'm feeling good. That one all-out set gives me the confidence I'm actually pushing hard enough without wrecking my ability to train well the next session.
The tempo and form point is huge too. Once form breaks down you're just shifting load to whatever compensates best — you're not actually loading the target muscle harder. So those grinder reps past failure on every set? Probably more CNS fatigue than actual stimulus.
Progress has been way more consistent since I stopped treating every set like a death march lol. Quality reps > quantity of hard reps all day.
I respect your pov and experience, but I don’t care what science says. Going to true failure is what causes growth and change in my body. In terms of recovery, I opt for more rest days as opposed to leaving anything in the tank. People can say whatever they want, I know what works for me
Science can be wishy washy sometimes, it's often applied to general population and often times the number of participants isn't enough to account for genetic differences. I don't know if I can find a scientific article pointing out high muscle mass individuals with years of experience training to failure, and likely being on different anabolics. A big thing is trial and error and seeing what works for each of us individually. Sometimes things we do, we get results despite it being the best thing for us. Other times we do things because we react better or mentally we feel the best.
I definitely get in a groove (comfort) of certain volume and rep ranges...but occasionally I break out and down something drastically different to shock the body and usually I hate it because I'm not used to it.
I used to train to failure when I almost solely lifted as it didn't really matter, I'd rest day or two and then get back at it when my body wasn't dead. Now I have to be a little more judicious if I go try to do a different sport. Surfing sucks if you went to failure on back, and skiing sucks if you went to failure on legs. But I never try to talk in absolutes when it comes to fitness...there is always a lot of noise coming out, and if you've been in the game long enough. You know what decade it's eggs are bad, then they're good, then they're bad. Certain lifts will give you cancer, oh wait no they're good now. The biggest thing is doing what works for you. If someone trained to failure and said they want to die and can't go back for a week, I'd say maybe it's not for you.
Tbh I've read quite a few studies that get published on strength sites I am subscribed to - and it is scientifically proven that you don't have to go to failure to get substantial strength gains and keep progressing. I've seen some where they have one group going to failure and the other stopping 2 reps shy of failure and they both experience the same strength jumps as each other overall. I think the same happened when comparing overall gains in muscle mass too. So many ways of looking at things in terms of the results you get back and what ultimately makes you the happiest. I'll really throw a spanner in the works here and say that I get much better size gains off doing 3 heavy sets of doubles to failure than I ever have doing 3 sets of 8 reps. In theory the higher rep sets should give more mass but for me its doing sets that really get heavy and intense where its all or nothing - those are the ones that really fill my clothes out. Only downside is that if you keep going that heavy week in week out you eventually stall because your nervous system ends up buggered and tendons often get too sore to sustain it. I don't think a pump after a number of reps necessarily means you are going to get more mass from an exercise but rather the absolute muscle recruitment involved and the amount of muscle fibre trauma you can create.
How long do you roll with the doubles? I have been 5x5 for the longest time. I throw in 4x8 and deload a little bit. I stopped going for close to max due to fear of popping something. I've had a few bad injuries, and laying in bed for a month made me start going for volume and focusing on rep quality.
I respect that. At the end of the day if something is working and you’re progressing, it’s hard to argue against it. I’ve seen your photos bro! I’ve found I recover and progress better leaving most sets just shy and picking my spots to go all-in.
I run plenty to failure. I also train for hours when blasting. I push my bodys limints every session. If im gonna blast im getting everything out of it. I lift heavy, light, high rep, big three lifts and tons of accessories. I check every box.
Tbh I've always gone to failure, rightly or wrongly - just the way I've always been use to doing it. By failure I mean getting the weight up but definitely not having another rep in me. Sometimes that means it just goes up by the skin of my teeth, other times it goes up comfortably and isn't a grind. I tried a program before where you were doing more sets, and reps were always 4 to 5 per set - but the idea was always to have another 1 to 2 reps left in there which to me just felt weird. Sure it does get more volume in if thats what you are after as you don't have areas like your lower back or shoulders suddenly locking up with stiffness and unable to do much more worthwhile lifting. Thing is though after a session I just didn't feel as good and felt really worn out rather than buzzing - part of training for me is to 80% of the time feel brilliant afterwards rather than shitty, shattered and like I just want to go to sleep.
I approach each workout with bettering the last session as a goal - that could be increasing a lift 1 to 2kgs for 1 to 4 reps, doing more overall sets or getting in an additional rep on a set. I don't tolerate a lot of volume well and when I have tried adding in more I just take even longer to recover between sessions. For me, 3 intense hard working sets will get enough progress to clearly see it next session. Of course all of this also depends on what gear you are running too in order to recover - Blast Test / Tren / NPP and DBol and for me recovery is insane, every session just gets easier and the warm up weights feel lighter and lighter. Go back to reality and just run Test and NPP and fuckin hell extra rest and recovery days have to be inserted all over the place. Genetics matter also - If you are built like Pete or Gotem (Mesomorphs) then these cunts only need to go and sit on the toilet for a dump and the next thing they are recovered!!! Lol Also Endomorphs are known for their high volume tolerance, even more so than Meso's. Anyway I'm Potato Waffling ....
That’s a great point about how you feel after training. I overlooked that for a long time. Feeling beat to hell every session eventually catches up. I’ve gravitated toward training that leaves me feeling better walking out than crawling out. Even if, short term, grinding myself into the ground felt productive.
I was running test, tren, eq, and dbol. Best strengh cycle ever for me a little ways back. Couldnt over train. Four hour sessions some days. Sleep was the only thing that could slow my recovery.
Yeah during my peak strength days I was only sleeping 6 hours per night - I just ate constantly and that seemed to be more import than sleeping overall lol Now, christ I better be getting 8 or 9 hours or I am good for nothing.
Sleep, food, and gear. The simple things , brother.
No Bitches, Trannies or Butt plugs??
I've been following Arthur Jones’s workout philosophy for about 20 years. After working out for many years, I attained my biggest size in my early 40's following his philosophy. I do 1 set to absolute failure. I keep my workouts to 30 minutes or less. I have a power rack with safety bars and I crawl out from under the bar on squats and bench press. It's that rep that you just barely get where most people call it failure. That's when the real fun(pain) begins.I'll take about a 5 second pause and continue. Usually that first rep after the pause seems easy and I end up getting a total of 2 to 3 reps. As I've gotten older, I go for more reps. I won't increase the weight until I'm getting 20 reps. I took about a year off to shrink down to carry less weight, concentrating on cardio work.. I started the weights back up in early December a couple of months ago. I was getting weak as fuck. Lol. I had reached my goal of shrinking my biceps down to 15". I have put 3/4" back on my biceps in 2 months. I wish I had never gotten my biceps as big as I did(18") because I have comically short arms. It limits my ability to do things. When my arms got to 18", I had an issue with getting a fork to my mouth and wiping my ass. When I had trouble getting the fork to my mouth, I stopped working out cold turkey. Lol. Muscle memory is real and the muscle comes back fast with this workout philosophy. For me anyway.
I'm a volume guy myself. So I'll only have one, maybe 2 sets to failure.
I've been playing around with this too. Instead of doing every set to failure, I'll do 4 sets of super clean squeezey reps leaving ~ 3 or 4 reps in reserve THEN I'll add weight and do 2 nasty sets and bully the weight to failure without total form breakdown. i think i'm gaining better this way. I'm no expert here or anything, just what worked for me. But on arms i will do force reps off-rip so i kinda pick and choose where and when i leave reps in reserve.
If you can recover quickly then sets to failure are the business. I’d continue to do them until I stop making progress. You can keep tempo and form while doing this. No need to get sloppy.
I personally like drop sets. I’ll get to my working weight then work my way down with 15-20 reps. Once I can’t hit 15 I’ll take weight off then keep going til I can’t even do 10reps with the bar. I don’t recommend this as a regular thing but once every couple weeks I feel like it’s a good mental exercise.
First exercise of the workout has warm up sets to my top set. Everything else no. People over warm-up when they are already warm. 1 set to failure, in the 5-10 rep range works best for me. There are exceptions to this like calves and leg extensions and curls I go a bit higher. I’m very much an intensity person, it’s what works for me. If you feel better with volume and make gains with volume don’t change it though. I’ve tried both over the years. I also mentally (besides warm up sets) don’t know how to leave RIR. Cannot gauge it, because sometimes I get an extra rep or two when I think I’m done. Tracking the weight / reps on every top set is what separates the people who look like they lift vs the ones that don’t. Progressive overload!! As far as tempo, I do with some exercises like to do a set after a top set that’s significantly lighter with a nice and slow negative and positive
In short to your question, hell fucking no to going to failure on any warm up sets before your top set. That’s counter productive in my opinion
I interpreted his question differently, not to be referring to warm up sets, but the actual 3x8 or whatever program you're running after those warmup sets.
Mentzer-style 1 set to all-out failure, and then move on to the next exercise?
Should each of those three sets have you hitting failure on that 8th rep? So, each set you're likely dropping the weight slightly.
Should you have a fixed weight for all 3 sets, where in that first set isn't failure on the 8th rep, but by the 3rd set, 8 reps is your absolute max? Once I can clear that true 3x8, I add a plate for the next session, and invariably in that next session I cannot hit 8 reps on that third set for a week or so, so this is my true failure. Once I can hit 8 reps on that third set again, I add another plate and repeat. This is what I run as progressive overload, but I often wonder if there is a better option.
Good question. I’m not talking about every working set hitting failure or dropping weight each set. I warm up to a top working weight, keep most sets controlled and close to failure, then push one true top set to failure. Progression for me comes from improving that top set over time, not forcing failure across all sets.
Warm up until you hit your top set to failure, failing between 5-10 reps (more or less, in that range). That type of training isn’t ideal for hypertrophic response. Warm up sets are not to failure or even close. The goal should be improving on your top set only.
Of course this is all person dependent, but I’ve done a lot of trial and error and this is what allowed me to progress
I believe @Petecastiglione is referring to a pyramid type set. Multiple warm ups and then a top. Not like a 5x5 or 3x8 or whatever. So increasing the weight each set, topping, then on with life. But I may be wrong. Hell probably whisper it in my ear later.
Since when is he a top?
Suprised me as well.... He's got that ouchie wiener too.
Correct milfy
In my opinion that is the best way to increase strength. The pyramid works very well when increasing weight each set. I have never understood why guys will set a wight and do 3 or 5 sets of that same weight.
Exactly!!! ^ unless your practicing a lift for powerlifting or an Olympic lift