Pre cycle blood work help (estrogen HIGH)
I'm a 24 year old male getting ready to run my first cycle of test E for 12 weeks. I have nolva, clomid and aromasin on hand. I like to do all the necessary precautions before starting. What have I done in the past? I ran a 6 week cycle of Hdrol and ran superdrol for 4 weeks two years ago. I'm 6ft tall standing about 205 lbs less than 12% bodyfat right now.
Here's my problem, I just got my bloodwork back and my estrogen is high but my test levels are within range.
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2mcyl9x.jpg[/IMG]
![http://i40.tinypic.com/2mcyl9x.jpg[/IMG]](http://i40.tinypic.com/2mcyl9x.jpg[/IMG]){kind=link}
Testosterone - 629
Estrogens - 130
I didn't get e2 or the estradiol on this test or SHBG I think it is. My cholesterol was a little high with my LDL's being at 134 and total at 193. Everything else is in check. Something else to note, is I have gyno in my right pec and I had it in my left but had surgery done several years ago to remove it. Both were from puberty they just decided to grow at different rates. It's not too bad to me but I know it's there and I'm pretty sure it's because my estrogen is through the roof. My libido is extremely low if non existent, and my erections are not full.
My diet is in check, I eat about 6 meals a day, protein about 200g, fats about 50 and carbs a little more than 200 depending on the day. I've read my estrogen could be high because of a zinc deficiency. What else could be the problem and what should I do?
Go see a doctor? Up my fats? Start my cycle? Try aromasin for a few weeks? Help please.
- Bookmark
- 0
- 0
E2 was at 25 on yesterdays bloodwork and total estrogens was at 145. So e1 must be wayyy up there? How do I balance this?
Anyone have any insight?
Just got my most recent bloodwork back after 4 weeks of liquidex at .25mg EOD. My estradiol is perfect, sitting at 25 right now but my total estrogens is at 145. Does this mean my e1 is super high or what is it? I have gyno in my right breast and have had it since puberty so maybe that could be the reason for the high total estrogens. After 4 weeks of liquidex I feel better than I ever have in quite some time. Libido is up, erections are great, morning wood is there daily.
5 days ago I switched to aromasin to make sure there isn't any estrogen rebound and to see if I can help out with the gyno I got going on now. After starting the aromasin, I don't feel as good as I did 5 days ago so I'm thinking I completely crushed my estrogens.
This leads me to ask this, should I taper the aromasin off over the next one, two, three or four weeks or what? I have clomid on hand as well if that would come into play here.
Why is my total estrogens so high and my e2 is in check? Can I just dismiss that number or what?
Also, after taking the 4 weeks of liquidex my test went down about a 100. I know this post is all over the place so thanks for those who have taken the time to read and reply.
Lipid Panel
Cholesterol total - 174
Triglycerides - 59
HDL - 36 LOW
LDL - 126 HIGH
Test - 553
Estrogens, TOTAL - 145 , wtf?
MakaveliCD7No ur estro is not normal but with ur history of gyno u may be susceptible to higher estrogen conversion than the average guy...but know that there are all kinds of reasons ur estrogen is high...hypogonadism caused by Klenfelter syndrome or pituitary insufficiency, it could be ur thyroid, kidneys, tumors....or u just plain and simple convert estro more than others....bc i do myself....I had problems with gyno since puberty but luckily enough not to warrant surgery...u definitely want to talk to ur doctor about the high estrogen to make sure that's It's a genetic inheritance and not something serious like a tumor or worse....if he says it nothing then i would do a pre-cycle low dose AI regimen....Aromasin would be my choice but to each his own....I would start a out 3 weeks out running it at 6.25mg everyday to get a jumpstart on pushing the estrogen down....and once i was 2 weeks in my cycle up it to 12.5mg if u start having gyno symptoms....u just cant chance with it already high running ur cycle bc It's going to skyrocket to worse....I usually do blood work about 4 weeks in....then u can re-evaluate the situation and make adjustments
Bump
I don't plan on starting any cycles until I maintain normal hormone functions. I do have aromasin on hand, so do you think aromasin 12.5mg EOD or ED for several weeks, maybe more dependent upon how bloodwork comes out would suffice? What about nolva or raloxifene at the end of the aromasin? Or do I not need to worry about rebounding estro because it's a suicidal AI?
MakaveliCD7I would base it on how that bloodwork comes out....I'm glad u took a wise stance in saying u were not going to cycle again until u get ur hormones under control....that the best way to go....some ppl would just try to add to the mix with more compounds....just stick with the low dose of Aromasin until u run bloodwork again but don't wait long...3-4 weeks max brother and see ur numbers
Oh yeah and +1 for the wise choice
RustyhookerTotal estro is different than e2.. Definitly get tested before cycle to have exact numbers. Prohormones DO turn up that e2 and cause gyno. So, being prepared means it all with steroids. With prohormones, anyone can simply eat them and hit the gym. Noone uses any ai or pct. So the sides xan cause big problems that gnc wont tell you about. Be safe bud
Thanks for looking out. I don't plan on running any cycles until I figure out my hormone imbalance. I will post labwork in a few days to tell you my e2 and test after 4 weeks of liquidex .25mg EOD.
AnonYeah but your natty test is nice and high too .At 26 Your bodies homeostasis might be with the estro a little high . I say roll on and just try to control estro from this point on . Just be extra observant, even take pics of your nipples to compare
My high estro isn't normal by any means. I've had gyno in both breasts, left one got removed several years ago. Right slowly developed since then...I had a very very small pea sized knot under my right nipple when I went under the knife for my left side. Doc said oh it's fine it should work itself out. Several years later it's grown but it's not too noticeable.
When you say control estro do you suggest taking the liquidex I'm on right now providing bloodwork comes back with in range e2 values?
If my bloodwork shows high e2 would you recommend switching to aromasin?
Possibly throwing in nolvadex or raloxifene after aromasin for 4 weeks?
Any other thoughts?
Thanks.
AnonWith the history of gyno I would be very careful here (Im sorry I failed to notice that at first ). Also low libido and iffy erections are a red flag to me at your age. I really think you should do some more bloodwork and perhaps see another dr before going further. Your test number doesnt seem bad, but is any of that test free ? Or is something going on in your body binding it up and keeping it from being used ?
Where did this liquidex come from and how old is it ? I have heard so many mixed results from liquid Ai's its just not worth it IMO . Get your self some tablet form AI.
. The Nolva should stop the estro thats already there from doing what its trying to do, but its not going to lower the E2 number. Again to me this is going back to the level of free hormone and bound hormone in your body.
I think a safer experiment for you might be to take a little proviron right now to see if it can help you utilize some of your natural test.
I dont think I asked for the free test for my bloodwork. I specifically asked to see what my e2 was at not my total estrogens. I'll know for sure by Monday when I get my bloodwork back.
The liquidex came from through a source who ordered from bdsupplements. I now have a tablet form AI, aromasin, 12.5mg/pill.
Should I run nolva when I start the aromasin or start the nolva a week before hopping off the aromasin and continue for several weeks?
Just to clear this up for everybody, I'm not running any cycles right now, strictly AI's and SERMs. I've read very little about proviron I will begin to research, thanks for the advice.
AnonLike I said the proviron will be a very interesting and easy experiment, plus I find the results are usually noticeable within a week.
What you might want to try is running the proviron for two weeks, then running a PCT protocol for 4 weeks. After that try another blood test and see where youre at.
Again I recant my earlier advice to roll with it. Now seeing how sensitive your body is to estro, and the other symptoms I think you should try your best to square that away before starting a cycle. If you cant get it squared away then may I suggest you not running a cycle, but rather a TRT doseage for a while. This might be easier for you to manage should things get worse.
UPDATE
Over the past month I've scheduled my appt with a highly favored endo which isn't until mid-July. Over the past month I've been dosing liquidex .25mg EOD and I just had bloodwork done today. My libido hasn't drastically went up but my erections have slightly improved. I'm guessing my estradiol has went down but not down enough or I crushed it completely. Not quite sure, but I will post bloodwork results in the next few days to see what's going on.
This leads me to my next debacle. I just got some aromasin and clomid. If my e2 isn't down enough should I make the switch to aromasin and see how that effects me. Possibly the liquidex was underdosed or bunk, who knows? Just a thought... I do have gyno in my right breast for those who didn't catch that in my prior post so I'm trying to figure out the best way to run an AI and possibly a SERM alongside it.
I've read about raloxifene doing wonders for minimizing gyno in some people. I've also read that letro is great too minus the libido crusher because e2 just drops off the map it seems like. What should I run if my e2 is high?
Switch to aromasin 12.5mg ED or EOD for 4 weeks then get bloodwork done?
Switch to aromasin 12.5 ED or EOD then run clomid OR nolvadex OR raloxifene for 4 weeks after that. Or possibly start the SERM the last week of the AI?
My main concern is getting my estrogen in check, libido up and erections back like they used to be many years back. Again, I have clomid, and aromasin on hand. I can get nolva or raloxifene if suggested. I would like to hear other people's opinions on my matter, thanks.
200g, fats about 50 and carbs a little more than 200 depending on the
^
Really you maintain your weight at 2800 cals per day at 6ft 205lb
man your lucky , I need like 3 k to maintain 180! But I'm like 8% bf so maybe that's the reason extra metabolism!
But anyways your bloods look okay, go to the doc and ask him bout you high e , you will get legit adex or something
Maybe he will say its fine
But continue a checkup with the pros for sure
Gatorgear
Have you not gone to an endocrinologist for this yet. I would not take any gear or AI's or serms until I knew what was going on with my body. If you start taking things and your levels start coming down you will not know what exactly is doing it or the root cause of the problem to begin with. I would see a specialist and discern what the problem or problems are and get them addressed before considering a cycle or any other drugs.
I have not gone to an endocrinologist yet. I just saw the blood results today, never had my estrogen checked before. Guess I'll book an appt tomorrow with an endocrinologist around here tomorrow. Thanks for the help.
Personally, I would do some research into what doctors do for long term estrogen control. Probably nolvadex. But, arimidex or something in that class may be necessary depending how bad it is.
First thing I would do is get on nolvadex at 40mgs a day and see how that helps. If that works, eventually drop that down to 20mgs a day. You may or may not have to supplement with arimidex. Arimidex is not good for long term usage, though, if I remember correctly. By long term, I mean years.
Cycling will be something you need to be very careful with. Watch the estrogen conversions. I would be looking into npp or deca, in other words nandrolones. They don't aromatize as much and are phenomenal compounds.
Do you take a multivitamin? Are you drinking soy milk?
For your cholesterol, get on Lipitor asap. You need to get those under control. Long term high cholesterol will hurt, it is something I'm constantly battling. Get on pharmaceutical fish oils of 3-4g a day.
How's your liver?
There are simply a ton of things here that I would be checking out rigorously if I were you. You need to know what exactly everything you're putting in your body does to you and how things interact. I am constantly reading medical books so that I keep up my knowledge.
Thanks for the reply Matt. I take a multivitamin every day, I've never touched soy milk.
As far as the cholesterol goes, Lipitor is the way to go? I have no idea why my cholesterol is high, doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Could high estrogen be related to high cholesterol in some way? I take fish oils everyday but not pharma grade. My liver checked out fine all values within range.
I've done some reading but not enough. One thing I know is that I wont be starting any cycles until I figure this out. So far, I've read that letro crushes estrogen so that would work but at the same time I imagine there would be a rebound when I get off of it. What if I taper the dosed down?
Aromasin or arimidex could be ways to go?
Nolvadex as you suggested I could do the same thing but wouldn't the estrogen just rise after I'm off weeks or months down the road?
Would a doctor prescribe me nolva, letro or something of the likes? Or should i just throw in an order on here real quick? This is a huge relief as I found the problem to a few problems but now the difficult task is finding the solution.
Multi should keep your zinc okay then. Yes, Lipitor simply tells your liver to stop making so much ldl. That will in turn greatly lower your ldl and help increase your hdl slightly. My levels went from ldl 320 to ldl 122 in a little over a month. Remember, juice will increase your ldl. It is an evil we all face. It also will lower your hdl by 30-50%. These can be extremely dangerous for our health. I have a cholesterol monitor at home. It wasn't cheap at almost $200, but well worth the investment. Make sure to be checking your bp too as that can be a problem, just as a side note :).
To answer your question whether estrogen can cause high cholesterol, yes it most definitely can!! That plus juice are probably two of your biggest culprits. Orals will have the quickest and most detrimental effects on your lipid levels, so be careful with them. I avoid most orals like the plague. If you know how test works and how it reacts to different tests, then all you should need are injectables. Simple as that.
Tapering is not going to help with that when it comes to hormone levels returning. They will return the same way, fortunately or unfortunately. Whenever you get past nolva, you're dealing with some things you need to be careful with because they may start other issues for you while your trying to stop some. Best thing right now is to keep it simple. Get nolva asap. 40mgs a day. Pm me and I can give you a good source for it cheap and pharmaceutical. If need be, I would get on a low dose of arimidex. It will reduce your estrogen by 80% very quickly. Just remember that we need estrogen for all that is good in our bodies too, so don't completely eliminate it. Rule of thumb here is to only use so much that you don't have gyno, but no more.
Pm me for the source.
Cheers.
Here's a link idk how to embed.... pic of test and estrogen levels.
http://tinypic.com/r/2mcyl9x/5