+ 4 I Demand a Refund!!!
i see these comments thrown around at times where people aren't happy with the products they've received so I thought I'd give my view on what I feel to be the best way to resolve such problems.
Examples of wrong methods that will get you know where:
'X' lab is completely BUNK.
Ran 'X' labs Test Enan for 3weeks and felt >nothing!
Complete selective Scammer!!
I ran their Tren and always get sides but had none and Zero cough, Bunk!
The pip is insane!! Can't possibly pin this crap!!!
A lot of the time these comments are dropped in Si pages followed by defences negative comments with absolutely no legitimacy to back up. Now obviously everyone of us runs into poor gear at some time or another but a level of respect and real detailed evidence is required to get anywhere.
First off try contacting your source and explaining the situation, if they snub you or respond in a negative manner at least you now have a reference point to back up that you tried to sort it out before hitting up the Si or review pages.
Presuming you've had no luck with an ignorant source who refuses to listen to rhyme or reason your next step is blood work. Blood work is golden and 9/10 can't be argued with.
Review/vote page should be your last port of call after all options have been exhausted. Also you must wait until you have ran the gear long enough to validate a full and honest review including links to pics (to prove purchase) and blood work (if possible) is a great advantage.
In my experience MODS will always fully back a member up if you have followed the correct procedure and Fan boys will soon enough get their shit shoved in if they attempt to smear your genuine issues so don't be afraid to post a negative experience, they are just as important if not more important than the generic "products worked as should..." Reviews.
Nothing here is gospel, merely my take on the topic in the aim of hopefully helping some members in the right direction.
Here's a few great and relative posts for thought before you dive in head first next time:
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/its-not-the-gear?page=4
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/ordering-strategy-for-n...
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/so....you-got-pip
Anything I've missed or you feel I got wrong or something worth adding please feel free to chip in 
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the thing that annoys the shit out of me is that some of these sources say they stand behind their products 100%... and then there's a problem and you find out they really don't mean that at all. some sources are great, don't get me wrong but there are some sources that will fight you to the bitter end not to replace a bottle of test that cost them literally $2.
At the same time you have to remember these sources are inundated with guys saying and doing anything to try and scam a free bottle of prop. That's why it's so important you do things the correct way and present as much legit detail of your order/issue so both members and MODS have all the info to back you up and question the source directly.
There are no guarantees in this game my friends. But the smart eroids members don't just go jumping into the fire, they watch for a long time. They study the sources SI's they see how the sources interact with their customers, then they finally jump in. These members more often than not will be happy with their experience.
On the other hand you have the guys that get caught up in promo's, fanboyism, or outright douchebaggery we see in the SI's. These fella's will eventually get hung out. I promise
It's the guys I see put mad size orders into the sources with terrible review after terrible but super cheap prices. Surely alarm bells should be ringing where there are no comments or activity in their Si for over 4months lol then they get their panties in twist when their packs don't show up :/
oh yeah sadly there are plenty of crooks on both sides of the game. in your opinion what is a reasonable timeframe to allow a source to handle the problem before dropping them a bad review? sometimes that is the only way to get people's attention and if you wait too long it allows more members to get scammed in some cases. it such a tough thing because good sources turn to shit at a seconds notice... you never really know what you're dealing with. just recently a well established source that had been near the top of the rankings for years pulled a major scam and fucked a lot of people.
Circumstances like that where it's more about T/A rather than underdosed/bunk gear has to be treated a bit more delicate and IMO you have to give the source ample time to make things right before putting them on blast.
Contacting the source via pm/email is obviously first step, so you can at least provide proof of timeline if required. It's so much less credible if someone pops up in the review page claiming non received items 5months later with zero previous contact with the source. There's also many variables depending on country and such. If the source begins to constantly back track and continually breaks promises weeks after T/A it's time to bring it to attention in Si/review.
Again these are only my opinions and experiences, if MODs feel different please correct me.
This was just an attempt to remind some peeps there is a right an wrong way to resolve issues like these. Too many people quick to pull the trigger and fire off Bunk claims.
P.s I'm not actually "demanding a refund" in anyway LoL nor do I have any bad gear, just a fitting title is all.
RustyhookerYour forum is a correct protocol of dealing with issues.
Appreciate that Rusty Thanks mane ;)
As soon as I realized just how cheap it was to make gear and just how sky high the profits were it dawned on me why people are willing to take the risks associated with being in this business and why also the labs have NO INCENTIVE TO PRODUCE CRAP. All the people in this business want glowing reviews and happy customers to expand and make even more money like any other business.
Yeah, production problems happen, crap gets to market on occasion and people get bunk junk. But, I just want to reiterate that making roids is CHEAP and superior profits are not generated by under dosing product and selling crap.
You are obviously a rational, intelligent person. As such you can easily understand the benefit in doing business honestly.
But many among us do not think in the same rational manner. Some personality types only feel power and self esteem when they are outsmarting or stealing from others.
For them it is not so much about long term profit as it is about feeling smarter and superior. The extra few dollars they make are just the tangible proof of their superiority.
I would expect our SRC ranks to be significantly over represented by these types. Beware.
Hate to be a pessimist but I've certainly learned over the years when there is profit to be made, especially large profit margins regardless of community standing if push cones to shove people often only have their own motives in mind. That is multiplied greatly in such black markets as these.
Having said that there are some truly great sources/people who who conduct themselves with the highest integrity. It's up us the buyer to decifer which is which and even then covering your own ass.
Blows my mind when I see so called first time "test orders" of upwards of $500 lol.
RustyhookerHere's a lists of proven crap by BFG.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/eroids.com/logs
I hear you but just In my time here I've seen a mix of all sorts, top 10 labs with really poor bloods, even bigger labs with completely opposite compounds in vials, Tons of Var as winny, non existence masteron, fake pharma etc etc so it's not just as cut and dry to say because steroids are cheap to make there is no incentive to produce crap.
Some people will cut every corner possible to increase margins further.
RustyhookerExactly! Just like that euro lab that posts lab results! Those name brands with Winny as var, primo was just low dosed tren etc.
Saying that fakes dint happen because cost markup is constantly proven wrong. And it's sometimes the huge labs doing it.
This is the world of drugs. Anyone blindly believing they get the "real deal" is off their rockers. Or noone would want or need pharma.
What ever the motivation is to produce fakes, it's not money is all I can say. I don't make the stuff or own a lab, I just own my own business and I employ a lot of people. All I can speak to is the businessman's perspective, the ingredients ARE TOO DAMN CHEAP to increase profits by cutting corners. But, I will ask around and get a UGL owner's perspective on why some labs produce shit and if it is really intentional or not. I would like to know myself. It's an interesting question.
RustyhookerYou're a businessman. Very different than the hotplate dealers with a computer. Some of these dealers are simply crack dealers with a computer. If it wasn't for the money, then why would the scammers return time and time again? It's all about the money. The good sources will remain good til they dont. But if the sources were good and trustworthy, there's no need at all for reviews.
99% of the time the problem is the raw supplier. The ugl finds a good raw source, MAYBE tests the first batch to make sure its legit and then they order with confidence. Like gear head said, theres no benefit in under dosing a 2 dollar bottle of test e. But for a raw supplier it is beneficial to cut 10lbs of raw test powder by 50%. Now instead of selling that 10lbs for say $1000, they can sell it for $2000. So the ugls dont test the raws after they think they've found a good supplier, and after a while the raw guy starts cutting it more and more. Ive noticed this trend many times. The lab starts out great, then gets worse and worse over time. There is no point in the owner of the ugl under dosing a bottle of test by 50% to make $39 dollar profit instead of a $38 dollar profit. Cause thats the best they can do, make the bottle of test cost a dollar to make instead of 2. So then they make an extra 1 dollar off everyone but only one time, cause no ones coming back after getting garbage gear from them. Its just not worth it to the ugl.
RustyhookerOne more reason it would be nice if real deal testing could be done affordibly for both ugl brewers and buyers.
But even there, it makes u wonder - the big labs are buying a lot of powder. The lab is gonna figure it out - does it make sense not only to lose the big lab customer but realize the labs do talk to each other - as a powder supplier getting on the black list or shit list of the major labs - is it really worth it? The labs will never buy from you again after they get egg on their faces from your shitty powder.
RustyhookerMassive labs also have the power to reach out and grab anyone hurting their business.
Yes. The really big scale labs that have millions invested in real pharmaceutical production line equipment - those organizations are not run by the Boy Scouts for sure. Get cross ways with those guys and they will find you years from now inside of a cement pylon supporting some bridge somewhere.
Point taken, Rusty. Truth be know, I don't buy gear from small boutique labs (the computer & hotplate crowd). I buy from BIG large scale production labs - those guys are not gonna under dose a $2.00 COGS bottle of Test deliberately. Their production runs are thousands and thousands of bottles. They would run themselves out of business in short order on bad reputation.
RustyhookerExactly. Just gotta research and it's easy to find them. There's good small labs. But like anything, it's research
LMAO. Bro, that sounds more like the 20 year old running the lab doesn't know what he's doing home brewing in his basement. Doesn't have a quality biotech company supplying powders. It sounds like a disaster. BUT, NO IT IS NOT A METHOD TO INCREASE PROFITS !!!!! Numbers just don't work that way. Period.
RustyhookerIve seen it happen for small ugl to put out great gear at first then skimp on proper dosing. Get it while its good.
Honestly, you could be 100% right. But i really think it comes down to there raw suppliers. They give them good stuff at first and then they start to cut the raws after the first couple orders. Just like a dope dealer would do. But i could see a source purposely under dosing shit like anavar, primo and expensive stuff like that. But overall the raws are cheap as hell and the profit margins are huge so they really have no reason to do that.
RustyhookerTrue. That's where this place is great. Open reviews keep us updated.
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X2. 2 bucks for a vial of test e usually. Then they sell it for minimum 40. What are they gonna underdosed it by 50% so it only costs $1 to make so now profits are 39 instead of 38 dollars lol. And extra dollar is not worth losing the customer.
Ya. That's about it. I love my lab for sure. But what we both are saying applies to all the sources on this website. I don't think folk really think about how the numbers work, they just expect to get ripped off. And, yes, the quality issues do come from the biotech companies that supply the raws. The big sources on this site now are paying extra to test the raws. Even the added expense is worth it rather than piss off the customers.
RustyhookerLil extra to get better. Definitely worth it!