How long before you get strength gains from test e
Thought I’d ask people with some experience how long it takes most people to see results from test e. I know it depends on the individual, but I heard a guy say 3 weeks and another guy say 8 weeks in a forum and I thought that was quite the jump. I know the people on this forum have actually taken gear, so I feel better asking you. Also, I recently heard of people switching from Test E to Test C mid cycle. Can anyone tell me why anyone would do that? Last question if anyone can answer this... If one was concerned about Deca D#*k, would NPP be a better option (assuming if you were to have a problem it would be shorter lived because NPP enters and exits your system faster) or do I have that all wrong? Thanks for any feedback, you guys have always been helpful.
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Strength gains from Test E? It can vary from person to person in how good you are at training for strength in general and how peaked you already are. If I knew your current lifts at what BW I could better advise. If you are looking more for instant gains from the get go then using Test prop for weeks 1 to 3 alongside the E would work wonders until the E properly kicks is. In theory because Test E peaks at hormone levels in only 24hrs you should me making gains right from the first pin but it will be more dramatic at several weeks in because of successive buildup
Remember to stick around 2 to 4 reps per work set as the results gained from this range is even more dramatic on gear than natty. If someone has said it takes them 8 weeks before they see any gains then they purely don't know how to train for strength properly. NPP and Deca pretty much both affect the love machine in the same way, although I do feel hornier on NPP than I do Deca for some reason. Tren is the real bad man that after 2 to 3 weeks of warped sexual thoughts and dreams soon turns you into a soggy noodle Lol
Thanks for the response. I’m at 155lbs, 7%BF. I’m going to start lifting low rep sets and see how it goes. In the last 5 years I’ve tried so many things. Currently I’ve been doing an upper/lower split. I do upper body on Monday with reps in the 8-12 range. On chest I have been doing incline dumbbell press and I do 80 lb dumbbells for 8 reps (3 sets) and cable flys. For back I do lay pull down 2x10 with 150 and I do another machine for 2x15 and I do machines and lateral raises for shoulders. On Wednesday I do upper again, but I do an explosive/power day on bench where I do 6 reps of light weight in an explosive upward motion (it’s super easy to recover from, it’s almost like a reload day in the middle of my week) on Friday I do upper again, but heavy weights with less reps (but it’s more like sets of 5 usually. Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday are legs (done in the same fashion.) It actually sounded like a ridiculous routine when I initially heard of it, but it was something I hadn’t tried, and it has worked well for me when very few other things have since I hit my plateau years ago. I have started gaining strength on the extra test. I’m going to do more low rep stuff again and see how that goes.
I would agree that you should stick with a solo test run for your first cycle. I would probably go with the standard 500 mg dose, but if you want to stick with 300 you should still feel a nice bump from the 100 you are running now. I also agree that test and an oral would be a good 2nd cycle. Anavar or TBol would both be good choices. I get more mass off TBol, and better strength gains with anavar. As far as NPP it is a great compound, but I personally would run it at around 300 with 500 mg of test. From my personal experience I don’t think you will see much from it at 150. I ran it at around 525 once and got horrible Decca dick, but I’ve never had any problems at 300 to 400. I would also agree that nutrition is key during a test only cycle, or any cycle for that matter. Good luck!
Thanks for the reply. If NPP doesn’t give me deca dick then neither should deca right? (At the same dose of course.) What dose do you usually run the Anavar and T’bol at?
Logically it would seem that an equal dose of Decca shouldn’t cause ED of NPP didn’t. I’m actually running Decca for the first time right now. I’m running it at 300, and at 4 weeks in no problems so far. I’m also running mast e at 300, and my libido is in full effect. Running a DHT derivative like Masteron or Proviron can help prevent ED and low libido on cycle. Some people also find they help with mood.
I ran TBol at 40 for 6 weeks and had great results. I did have a few instances where I got light headed, but drinking extra water helped. As far as Anavar, I ran it at 20 with 300 mg of test recently, and was really impressed with the results. I got some slow but steady strength gains, hardened up, and got more vascular. I also didn’t have any sides to speak of, other than a few muscle knots during the last week. I plan on running it at 40 next time to see what I get at that dose. Of the two I consider anavar to be the mildest in terms of side effects.
I notice libido increase and fullness in muscles from the glycogen build up more than the strength gains…this is usually around wk 3…that said I only run low-mod doses of test and usually an oral, ( drol or dbol), depending ….so I would have to say for the most part the strength increase from my test dose pails in comparison to what the orals do, …..but here’s the real truth about using test only, …NUTRITION will dictate strength….run 300 mg test , eat 6-700 cals extra a day and watch your lifts improve considerably….next cycle run the same test, eat at a cal deficiency of say 3-500 a day on a cut, and you’ll realize pretty quick that the drugs “ help”, but your foods is what will make or break strength increases……so as far as strength is concerned, take advantage of the increase in nutrient particitioning ( feed efficiently), from the added test while on cycle and EAT, train for strength….don’t rely on the gear to do it, once you come off, the strength comes off…
This is helpful, thanks for the response. I’ve heard you’re less likely to gain fat in a surplus when you are taking test. I rarely gain fat no matter what I eat, but it’s also very hard for me to gain muscle too. You think I should just eat a surplus of clean foods? chicken/meats, rice, and broccoli? I was actually in a slight deficit, because it’s summer and I want to keep my abs, but I’m going to hop up in calories.
I absolutely recommend you eat more…..real sustainable muscle and strength will come from food, and foods alone….like I said, the gear will help, but without feeding you body to actually build new muscle, the gear is for not…..eat train sleep, if you’re so inclined then pin a bit of test ….low to mid levels of exogenous test is all most of us gym rats will ever need , provided nutrition and workouts are in order….down the road you can look at other compounds , but for now enjoy building new muscle thru foods and and some elevated test levels. This may be all you’ll ever need…
I never really experience any strength gains, but I don't train for strength. When using just straight test I do notice a bump in endurance, which I guess you could equate to strength, 4-5 weeks into the cycle. This should equate to the time when you muscles have the extra glycogen loading due to the AAS. Great pumps should be happening around this time also. Peak effect seems to be 7-8 wks into cycle.
Only reason to switch between test e/c mid cycle is if you ran out of one or the other. Use them interchangeably.
Thanks, that’s helpful. But you do get size on test right? When I was first prescribed TRT my strength when up a lot for the first 4 months. It was Androgel though so it started working quickly.
You will gain size right away due to the extra glycogen retention from the steroids, which will go away after you quit or lower dosage. You will only retain size if you eat and train properly to actually build muscle. Like I have said a million times steroids don't make up for a shitty diet or routine.
From 300mg I’ll gain size from the glycogen retention until I lower the dose? I didn’t realized a dose that size would need to be lowered in most cases.
300mg is a cycle not a trt dose. Running that much test long-term will cause you problems.
Again, my trt dose is 100mg. 300mg is my cycle.
Sounded to me like you didn't think you had to lower 300mg.
In the middle of a cycle you think 300mg is too high and needs to be lowered? Obviously I am not running 300mg year round as I have stated 100mg is my trt dose and 300mg is my cycle throughout the forum on just about every reply. After 10-12 weeks when my cycle is finished, I will go back to my 100mg. Are you saying you run less than 300mg cycles and still get a bunch of water retention so it should be lower? Most people suggest running 500mg for a first cycle, which I think is too high to start, but I haven’t heard anyone say you’ll have a problem with 300mg and it needs to be lowered.
Let me know if you would lower 300mg or raise it. (As a 10-12 week cycle)
300mg can definitely give you water retention if you don't have your ai dosed properly. anytime you jack your test levels beyond normal you risk water retention due to estro climbing also. Even individuals on trt sometimes have to take an AI, usually if they are running on the high end of normal.
I wouldn't lower your amount. You can have the exact same problems whether 300 or 500mg, so don't think 300mg is any safer than 500mg because it is not. I am a proponent of running of 500mg for a first cycle, but if you are getting good results with 300mg just keep doing what you are doing. You are still going to need bloodwork to dial in your AI though, even with 300mg.
Thanks for the reply, that was very helpful. So bloodwork is really the only way to tell if you need to take an AI. People have basically told me, “if your nipples itch, you need an AI.” On my low TRT dose I’ve never needed an AI, but I am tripling that, so I know it’s a possibility. I have it ready. You don’t think 300mg of test is less likely to require an AI than 500-600mg? One reason why I chose 300 over 500 is because I heard someone say they have taken 300, 500, 750, and 1 gram of test cycles and the only real difference between them was the sides. Maybe he was just different. Also, don’t we grow as a result of our levels increasing on anabolics? If I started at 500mg wouldn’t my body adjust to that, and make the same 500mg cycle less effective on the next cycle? (So I’d have to increase it to 600 or 700 and deal with those sides.) With 300 on my first cycle, I thought I’d get more from it and I could go to 350-400 on the next cycle and throw in an oral for the second half. Maybe I’m wrong though.
Yes. Once you have ran a few cycles and know how your body reacts to test and AI then you can probably get away without testing, as long as you stick with the same doses, but right now you have absolutely no idea how your body is responding to any of these compounds so you need bloodwork to learn that. You don't wait until your "nipples are itchy" to start an AI. Then it is to late and you will be chasing the tiger by its tail trying to figure out your estro control. How much AI are you going to need to take? Too much and now you crash your estro. It can be a vicious cycle trying to figure that out without any bloodwork. Just because someone else could get away without an AI with 300, 500 or a gram of test means absolutely nothing for your situation.
You don't necessarily grow as a result of increasing levels of anabolics. The whole premise on increasing doses is to use the minimum amount needed to see beneficial gains. You may never have to go above 300mg if you are seeing positive results at that dose. What you will notice is that as you gain more muscle it becomes much harder to put on additional muscle mass. Your body will fight you tooth and nail to add additional mass beyond its normal carrying capacity. That is when you will have to force it to grow by adding more and stronger anabolics along with better nutrition and training.
If you are looking to just add some additional muscle and and strength and want to maybe run a few cycles, there will never be a need for you to start stacking or upping your dosages. Most people do that because they are impatient and get in the mantra of more is better which isn't true. All you are going to experience is more side effects with little in the way of additional gains. Don't expect to gain 15 lbs of muscle like you might with your first cycle, for each subsequent cycle. I will be less and less each cycle no matter what you run. I am lucky at this stage of the gain if I can gain a couple of pounds with an advanced cycle. No it is more for looks than gaining any significant muscle. Most people can go years on running just simple test cycles.
The theory about NPP being better due to it clearing your system in case of side effects is a sound theory but deca dick shouldn't be a problem if you keep e2 and prolactin in check. But as 0ne said don't experiment with multiple compounds on your first cycle, go with the basic test first because if you can't get that dialed in perfectly first you're subsequent cycles will only bring more problems.
Thanks for the feedback. I am saving the NPP for my next cycle. I actually ran a Deca only over 10 years ago and was fine, but I heard someone say that they did the same thing and when they took it in there 40’s they had no libido for over a year (even after discontinuing the cycle right after noticing deca dick. Part of me thinks it was in their head, because I wasn’t sure how that could even happen. I was put on Androgel (a testosterone gel) many years ago, and I noticed a big difference in the gym for a few months and then I plateaued. No matter how much of a surplus I was in, I couldn’t increase my bench by 5lbs. After 5 years of training with no results I decided to do a test e cycle at 200 mg (plus my 100mg of Androgel equals 300mg of test.) If my body handles the extra test well, I will take 25mg of Anavar the second half of my cycle. I tried 300mg of Primo with my trt and it just wasn’t enough to reach my goals. My goal is to gain. 10-15lbs of muscle over the course of 3-4 cycles. I have an AI, but I’m hoping my dose will be low enough to where I don’t need it. I am a little acne prone so I keep my levels as stable as possible by injecting EOD. I have taken test E once before, but it was so long ago, I don’t remember when it worked for me. I’m on day 23 of the test e and I haven’t noticed any changes yet, but it sounds like that’s pretty normal. If you or anyone has anymore feedback for me let me know. Thanks again for the helpful response.
Ur on such a low dose ur not going to see a magical effect. As Makwa said, ull see endurance. U shld recover a lil bit better as well as see some strenght increase. Nothing dramatic..
Answer this..
How long have uve been on TRT?
Trt along with good diet is more than enough to get u ur 10 clean lbs over the next year
I’ve been on trt for years. As I mentioned in one of my other responses, on 100mg/week I gained over 12lbs and my bf% went from 10 to 6% in 4 months. But despite what a lot of people who aren’t on trt believe, you do hit a plateau on trt just like you do naturally. You don’t just gain muscle year after year on a 100mg trt dose. (Or any dose for that matter.) I’ve been training for 5 years and my diet is on point. I can gain a little weight in a surplus, but my strength hasn’t increased in much in a long time. My TRT dose can probably help me maintain a little more size than I have though.
Ok so uve experienced and been living trt for some time. Thats great. now uve upped ur dose of testosterone to cycle levels. Run this dose, I wldnt go over 500, and experience what this level of testosterone will do for u. As we said, it not dramatic but its great levels that ur body will react to. Watch ur e2 even at these levels. Itchy nipples is a sign, but bloodwork is the best to know everthing going on. Up ur levels in a week or two if ur still not feeling a difference. Do not add any other compounds until u see how ur body reacts to this higher level of test. On ur next cycle add an oral and see how u do with that. I know uve already have heard, but all the extra test will not do anything without feeding ur body the proper fuel to energize workouts and rebuild muscle. Also remember that ur body is being stressed and u need to get back to trt level after a period of time. Ur body will need to rest and if ut doctor sees that ur abusing hormones, they will probably drop u. Ur doing fine right now.
Recap::: Test only, 300-500 for 12wks, train hard, eat more, and get bloods in a wk or two..
Thanks. I was told that it would take about 5 weeks to get my levels down for my trt clinic. Does that sound right to you?
It takes quite a while for Deca to clear the system and no longer be suppressive, since the other guy was in his 40's his recovery time after a cycle may just have been really long or he didn't pct correctly or too early. Also with the androgel do you actually absorb a 100mg of test?
Sorry, I didn’t see this. That’s a good question. So 100mg is an estimate of what I absorb from my doctor. I actually do technically apply much more than 100mg per week to my shoulders , but as you already know, that doesn’t mean it is all absorbed. Based on my levels my doctor estimates it’s around 100mg/week that’s absorbed. (Obviously there’s no way to be precise with a gel.)
Everyone is a little different. I notice at week 3-4 a difference when running higher test cycle. Deca dick is when ur e2 gets out of hand. If this is ur first time cycling don't do deca. Figure out how ur body aromatizes testosterone to estrogen first.
What are the best ways to keep e2 in check. I’m asking for my second cycle with Deca. Do you think 350 test and 150 NPP would be a problem? I assume diet affects E2 a lot as well, but I don’t really understand the concept.
Thanks for the response. I won’t be doing the NPP until my next cycle (early next year.) I’m 3 weeks into 300mg of test. I have responded well to trt in the past, but it was Androgel. I’m adding 200mg of test E to my 100mg/week of Androgel. I posted my story in my response to blackjack. I’d love your feedback if you get the time. I want to make sure I’m getting everything right. A concern I didn’t mention is my hair. I have plenty of it, but it’s likely I Cary the male pattern baldness gene, so my only options are Test, var, T’bol, and deca/NPP (as far as I know. Superdrol doesn’t sound like something I would ever take. I’ve heard mixed things on EQ as far as it’s affect on hair. I took Primo with my Trt at 300mg without a problem, but it could have easily been underdosed.
I read the story too. It's good you're not starting with an ai unless you need one, you'll need some estro to build the strength and size. I'd stick with compounds that are more bang for your buck. Unless it doesn't matter, then go ham with the primo. Otherwise, I'd do a winny, tbol, or maybe masteron. Just my two cents tho. The doses you're using aren't much, you could probably just use an ai and go high test and get some nice results. I rarely if ever get sides from test. It's the additional stuff that does that gives me issues occasionally.
Thanks for the reply. I have some T’bol that I’ll throw in next cycle, but I probably have the Male Pattern Baldness gene and don’t want to risk losing my hair so I can pretty much only do T’bol, low test, deca, and Anavar. (I technically could do Superdrol, but that might be a little much for me. I’m only trying to gain (and keep 10lbs of muscle) over the course of a few cycles. Have you done T’bol? I actually don’t know anyone who’s done that compound.
I've run everything except gh and peptides. The best for me for dry gains was tren and test. I don't go recommending tren to anyone because of how dangerous it can be. That being said, it gave me the best dry gains every time. I have run tbol 3 times. It was quick every time (strength built in like week 2/3 and I ran it for 6 weeks and once for 8 weeks. Never had the change in liver value if get from dbol or anadrol and I got strength in the same range that I would gain from dbol without the super gnarly back pumps. My forearms felt like overfilled balloons the whole cycle with veins all over. Very good for dry gains in my experience. Only issues I've had from the more wet compounds like anadrol and dbol and deca have been ED issues and some gyno that I'll end up getting surgery for eventually. A lot of your questions depend on whether or not you plan on doing this for any real length of time (5+ years).
That response was very helpful. You answered pretty much everything I was going to ask you. My concern with T’bol was the affect on the liver. I was going to run it at the end of next cycle for 5 weeks at only 30mg with liver support and NAC. I have every compound that I ever intend on doing. I’m going to run 3-4 cycles over the course of 2-3 years. I plan on running a small amount of everything. My last cycle I will probably work up to 450mg of test. It seems like people all just respond extremely different to test in this forum. Some people say they done gain anything off a blast of test and my bench went up 5lbs every week for months when I was put on a 100mg trt dose. My plan is just to keep the doses low and watch how I respond before raising anything. I’m hoping I don’t have to take any of my Arimidex but how will I know if I need to? I’ve heard if your nipples itch it’s time to pop an AI, but I presume there’s more to it.
Anything from itchy to sore and painful with the nips. Can be lethargy or being randomly emotional for some. Everyone is different.
All orals have their side effects and stress organs, I wldnt say any have a safe stamp. As far as what oral, most start with a mild oral, like anavar. But its whatever u decide, u might be more interested in a bulking agent? Liver will always be a concern, but even more while taking an oral.
E2 is a funny one and everyone reacts different. Most of the time for me it's an itchy nip, but there's been times my nip skipped that part and was straight sore or I catch myself very emotional (tearing up over nonsense). The thing is, u need to catch it early otherwise ull spend weeks or months chasing ur ass. I'm actually a fan of low test cycles. I use test as my support compound and my priority compound will usually be something else. I have my reasons of why I do this and it's mostly because I now know how my body reacts to certain compounds. The only way u'll get there is to start small and add a little to experience it. With that being said I do keep Ameridex, caber, and aromasin on hand at all times..
Thanks, that’s helpful. You take arimidex and aromasin? I’ve heard caber helps again Deca sick, but I’m not too familiar with what it is. I’ll research it.