HCG to boost estrogen
Hey fellas,
Has anyone implemented HCG to bring up estradiol? I'm on a cut presently, but when I'm cruising I usually run my test at 140mg/week, 20mg pinned daily. On that dose my E2 sits in the upper teens. Last health phase the bloodwork I ran showed total test at 940 and E2 at 17. I've recently added in HGH at 3iu pinned nightly for full hormone replacement therapy protocol. With my E2 that low I know I won't be able to get the most out of my GH. So, has anyone used HCG to boost their E2? Has anyone seen increased E2 on their bloodwork after implementing HCG? And what about dosing? Most of the protocols for HCG are fertility or PCT oriented, but there's not much out there on HCG for estrogen support. I might just give it a try and see how my E2 responds at 100mg/daily, for 700 total for the week and titrate up from there based on bloodwork. Any suggestions?
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There is some evidence that estradiol plays an important role in the GH/IGF-1 axis, but it’s worth being careful not to overstate what the research actually shows.
Birzniece & Ho reviewed the interaction between sex steroids and GH and concluded that testosterone’s stimulation of GH secretion in men is largely mediated through aromatization to estradiol. They also describe estradiol as a key regulator of the GH/IGF-1 axis.
Weissberger & Ho also reviewed the topic and showed that estrogen modulates both GH secretion and GH action. Interestingly, the route of administration matters. Oral estrogen increases GH secretion while often lowering IGF-1 because of first-pass hepatic effects, whereas transdermal estrogen has a different effect.
A more recent review, A Review on Testosterone:Estradiol Ratio—Does It Matter?, summarizes human data showing that estradiol is a major regulator of the GH/IGF-1 axis in men. It also discusses studies where adding estradiol back after aromatase inhibition increased basal, pulsatile, and total GH secretion.
The important caveat is that none of these papers demonstrate that pushing estradiol above the normal physiologic range makes exogenous HGH more anabolic. They support the idea that adequate estradiol is important for normal GH physiology and that suppressing estradiol too aggressively may impair aspects of the GH/IGF-1 axis. That’s different from saying “higher E2 equals better GH results.”
So yes, hCG can certainly increase estradiol in many men, but I wouldn’t assume that raising E2 from the upper teens into the 30s or 40s will necessarily improve your response to HGH. I’d let symptoms, IGF-1, and follow-up bloodwork guide the decision rather than chasing an estradiol number alone.
HCG for beginners…
Try using the search bar bro
https://www.eroids.com/forums/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/hcg-101.-wh...
I appreciate the detailed response - and just to clarify, I did attempt to use the search bar but kept getting 404 errors. I'm not sure if it was a platform issue or what, but in general I try to not repeat the same questions over and over again...
Mostly I am just curious how modestly higher E2 might affect my overall performance and feel. I am not presently suffering from crushed E2, but based on past experience (when I crushed it with EQ awhile back) I noticed that when I implement compounds that cause a spike in E2 (dbol), I get positive results - heightened libido, no bloat, nice joints, overall well-being etc. My E2 seems to run low when I'm cruising, and pinning everyday, especially when I am staying lean, so I'm interested in what a modest bump in E2 might do for me, but without having to raise overall androgen or test load, or continuously push an oral like dbol.
The commenters below suggest switching to prop, and this is where my grasp of the pharmacokinetics is just not adequate. I assume that because of the short ester the initial test spike produces a higher rate of aromatization, even if serum test levels stay roughly the same over time. Is that the suggestion?
Again, I appreciate the clarity and quality of your response. Thanks.
The 404 errors can happen if your search terms are too short. I used to run into that myself. Try using 6-10 letters or multiple keywords instead of just two or three. The more specific the search, the better the results.
As for your estrogen question, I can only speak from my own experience. I’ve used both Test P and Test PP specifically because they’re easier to fine-tune. Longer esters like cypionate and enanthate work great for a TRT or maintenance phase, but once I start adding compounds like NPP, Primo, and Mast, I find the shorter esters make it easier to manage where my E2 ends up.
I’m also very lean, so I don’t seem to aromatize particularly well. I’ve experimented with several HCG protocols over the years, and the only one that consistently kept my testicles healthy and full and functioning the way I wanted was 250 IU daily. Initially I had a little nipple sensitivity and some mild water retention, but that settled down after a while. These days my E2 typically lands somewhere in the 20s while running NPP, Primo, Mast and GH. On a simple TRT or maintenance phase, with GH I’m usually in the 30-60 pg/mL range.
Regarding the recommendation to switch to prop, my understanding isn’t that propionate inherently aromatizes more. Rather, because it’s a short ester, it’s easier to adjust dosing and injection frequency, so it’s easier to dial in how you feel. If your average testosterone exposure stays the same, I wouldn’t necessarily expect prop to produce substantially more estradiol than cyp or ena solely because of the ester. But, in my experience it does help to fine tune E2 and does agree with my physiology better and I can agree with @Aggieguy in his assessment.
I prefer prop or p.prop to keep my e2 dialed in. Everyone is different and bloodwork and the painstaking process of “dialing in” takes time and trial and error.
HCG will boost the E2 because it signals your body to produce more natural testosterone but a quicker way would be to use Testosterone Propionate.
Thank you for posting this. Perfect response.
My brain broke for a moment while reading the orginal question & thankfully you had already posted this saving the day
Is that the case even if the total test dose remains constant? Would 140mg of test prop (rather than cyp or enanthate) result in a higher E2 number? That is something I have not seen anecdotal evidence on, but could try on myself and then check the bloodwork.
I really think you need to go back to the drawing board mate. Perhaps take a break & then start back again from scratch with a more well thought & researched approach.
I appreciate the suggestion, though I'm not sure if my initial inquiry was clear - likely a problem with my presentation. Apologies for the clunky communication. There is at present no issue with my TRT protocol - 20mg daily test cyp, 4iu growth every night is working great. But I think I could get a little more out of it, as well as some added psychological and physical benefits, if I could keep my E2 in the 20s-30s rather than down in the teens. Having experienced crushed E2, that is not the problem at present. But having also experienced more elevated E2 (thanks, dbol!) I know that I feel pretty good when my estradiol is higher.
If I understand the pharmacokinetics (which, admittedly, I do not) the suggestion is that the higher initial spike in total test caused by the shorter prop ester would result in more E2 production, without having to increase my TRT dose (I am quite happy with it in the 900s while I'm cruising) or adding other compounds that spike E2 (dbol). An experiment with swapping my daily injections of cyp with prop would be an easy way to assess, but since I am prescribed test cyp (and it is covered by insurance) my inquiry mostly pertained to whether HCG therapy might be another way to elevate my E2 floor modestly.
Again, I appreciate the suggestion, though I am not sure what \ about my approach strikes you as poorly thought out or under-researched. Modest TRT dosing supplemented with GH is a pretty standard protocol. I just tend to have low E2 and I am interested in brainstorming ways to elevate it without increasing total test or androgen load.
You don’t need anecdotal evidence for that… hahaha prop is fast acting so test increases and so does e2 immediately. As for E and C, they take a while in system and due to the ester one is getting lower test per ml than prop.
@Aggieguy is probably under the assumption you have crashed e2 and was responding with the best way to get your estro up. Thats how is I interpreted this thread anyway
Yeah - I was likely unclear. I'm not experiencing crushed E2 symptoms. I'm just brainstorming strategies that might allow me to keep my E2 in the twenties or thirties rather than in the teens without increasing doses/pushing more test/popping dbols like Skittles since I know I feel pretty good when it is in that range. I might run an HCG experiment, and then let things reset and give prop a try to see if the shorter ester/higher testosterone spike positively affects my E2.
As always Tea, née Infidel, I appreciate your insight.