Thats where you get into serious science! Lol. It is so different for all of us given all of our feedbacks to homone are different based on hard wired genetic information. So we look fat natty or skinny natty or hard or soft,muscles, no muscles. So the point is, its too different to have an equation, it would have to be a scientific equation for you and you alone based on over and over bloods to see where free test levels stop increasing based on increased use of hgh. So here it is for me, I can roll around 800 with 3 iu's and see a definate reaction and increase in uptake with jumping to 5 or 6. This tells me 5 is probably still not wasting at the level you're talking about. Now the other question, 5 of what? If its Eli Lilly pure grade 191-5mg, it will likely be overkill. If its chinese so so 191 or 192, its not. So many variables you have to slowly guess and work up but 600 mg test with 5 iu's chinese or even pretty good pharma is probably in line without waste....still benefit at the lower number though because unlike test in the axis, you don't shut down growth hormone natty. This means you are getting natty growth along with your extra hgh. The only way you may not is by popping your growth too late at night. For men we pulse our natty as we sleep, so if you pop before bedtime you can send a negative feedback telling the p not to pulse that night.

Nice post...I'll explain "axis balance" a little better. The hpt axis has a job of balancing hormone. So lets say you inject 2 grams of test in a week. Its job then is to figure out what to do with that test. First of all it has to make a balnce between test and growth hormone natty. The fact is that it will prompt more growth from the hp from positive feedback loop but there is simply no way to produce enough to make the proper balance to meet the demand of 2 grams. So in the scenario I talk about, you are helping that balance by adding the hgh yourself. Now you can run under a gram of test with say 3-5 iu's of hgh ed and actually have a higher available test than in the scenario where yo vran 2 grams of test and no hgh given the body discarded what it could not make the balance on. Axis has a job to balance hormone betweeen test and growth is the shortest way to put it.

Its the food at the end of the day. I think when talking about 20 lbs and referring to "keepable quality" in a single cycle you can go many directions but hgh to create that higher axis balance and produce the stomache ghrelin needed to increase the appetite is a good idea. You will not see all of the hgh benefits obviously in a short period such as this other than you will increase axis balance almost immediately and help the appetite. I think then its mega clean with an intake sort of like vike talks about here. I do like the triple Noid has and the way he alternates the 19's. It opens with some high potential to get the building rolling and closes with more high potential for quality weight to continue coming on. Again, something along those lines with the hgh and this is doable. Have to have the cals and high end protein for 20 lbs. Lay 20 lbs of meat on the counter top and realize what we're talking about here. I don't even mind a net gain of 3-5 lbs on a cycle but 20 is a serious undertaking when talking quality and here to stay. The other thing of course is now you have to keep it or whats the point right? This means I continue the hgh if not already running it and adapt to that next level off cycle higher end diet in clean bigger cals than before. As was mentioned below, really large volumes of test is not really necessary unless you create all the additional hormone adjustments to see to it there is a possibility to use it. Lower doses of test, and I mean lower compared to your mention below you just finished, will be much more beneficial with hgh to create a higher usable axis balance than bigger numbers with less possibilty for the balance necessary to use the high end test use. Essentially finding a way to use more of whats going in and speed meabolism which in turn means you not only can go through more food, you have to. The serious answer for me is this, I don't think 20 lbs "that can be kept" is a reasonable expectation. Can you pull 20, yes. can you keep the whole thing, not in my experience. The body has to make slow necessary adjustments to accept change and thats so much so fast it will continually fight you off cycle to get rid of it meaning off cycle habits will have to change to combat the bodies effect of trying to dump this weight. If its for comp and you don't care if you keep all 20, then I think you have a shot at least . again, lay 20 pounds of beef on the counter...thats a lot of gain brother! Lol..as RN said, depending on your cycle experience. Vike has a quick gain roll there too but diet is the whole thing as you know.