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MegaT883
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+ 15 UPDATED 3 :Tren Causing Bogus Elevated Estradiol Levels. Roche ECLIA methodology "IS" the culprit

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Some of you have seen Killroys labs posted up showing high E-2 (481)while on Tren E(200MG WK). If you haven’t you can find it here In his post he talked about doing some checking and finding that others were having similar experiences while on low dose Test with Tren. He also posted that some are saying it is caused by Labcorps testing methodology. I've seen elevated E2 quite a few times in labs posted here on eroids while on Tren. You can find those labs here (http://www.eroids.com/pics/lab-3-in-3-weeks....updated-estro-from-800-to...), 2500hd All had through the roof E2, all on Tren. The funny thing is that all were on an AI.Agnus and Infidel were on high doses of an AI and the numbers were still not coming down. No matter what you threw at it. They did come down but it took massive amounts of AI and it was slow going.The question is why wasn't it coming down. Bunk AI? At the time I thought so but now I don't. Is the testing giving a false reading? Maybe. I'm posting this in the open forum so that we can discuss and find out others experiences. I went into detective mode and did some checking myself and it seems that this is a pretty common as far as having high E-2 levels while on Tren even while running an AI. It's showing up on a lot of boards and being talked about. Seen labs showing E2 AT 170-1000 on doses of Test from 100-500mg wk with Tren 200-700wk. But what is causing it? My first though was maybe there is some estrogen in the Tren. But I ruled that out. With all the Mass Spec's run on Tren here I would think if that was the case it would of popped up. Then I thought could be that the Test is just converting. But ruled that out also based on this post you can find it
HERE This guy did 200mg of tren e 1 week prior to a blood test with out any Testostrone added and his estradiol came back at 234. WTF!How can that be. His natural test production would have shut down and how did it convert to that much estro? Surely it's not from the Tren as we all know Tren does not aromatize. But I'm still not convinced as there were no labs. But what really got me thinking was this post. Guy did everything right. Got labs before he started his cycle. In the middle of the 6th wk he ran a 2nd lab. His cycle was Tren-A 50mg daily and Test-E 15mg daily (350 and 105 weekly).He was taking 6.25mg of Pharma Aro ED. His Labs showed Test at 503 and his E2 was 198. Now that is a high E-2 number to have on just 15mg of Test a day. You can see his labs HERE Well looks like there just might be something to this. No Test on Tren and E2 at 243, very little Test (15mg ED) and E2 at 198. What the hell is going on! So based on what I've seen its logical to assume Labcorps Roche ECLIA estradiol is giving a false reading of E2 while on Tren. So be careful on the amount of AI your taking while on Tren. Of course I can't prove it's the test methodology. You have to decide for yourself. But it sure looks that way. So there you have it. Post up and lets hear your thoughts.
UPDATE! After some research It looks like the test results are flawed. We know that Tren does not aromatise into estradiol. We also know that testosterone does as does certain other AAS but not tren. So when Tren and Test are used it is the Testosoterone that is causing the elevated estradiol. SO the next question is can 125, 300, or 600 mg wk of testosterone convert to estradiol and the answer is of course yes BUT NOT AT THE LEVELS BEING REPORTED by labs. Even at 600mg a wk it's not over 150. so 15mg or 25 mg of test is not going to convert to 200-300 estradiol let alone 800-1200.
UPDATE #2 Well it looks like its Labcorp Testing method. Take a look at these labs that were done at Quest Diagnostics. The OP was on 50mg test prop EOD,Tren ace @ 100mg EOD and mast prop 50 mg EOD his total estrogens(estroneE1,estradiol E2) was in range at 102 (reference range is <130) no big spike like all the Labcorp reports. So if your doing a Tren run get your estro blood tests done by Quest Diagnostics.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/test-prop-blood-work?page=1
Heres another on 400mg tren E and 500mg Test a wk
http://www.eroids.com/pics/hulk-bloods
UPDATE #3 So if your wonderING where to get Quest Diagnostics Lab tests done follow the link and read AND JOIN THE GROUP"THE BLOODY TRUTH" ....MORE TO COME.
http://www.eroids.com/og/the-bloody-truth/what-lab-and-blood-test-to-use....
UPDATE #4 This explains why Roche ECLIA estrogen Tests reads incorrectly.
http://allaboutpeptides.com/trenbolone-can-skew-estrogen-tests/

Go to these links and see for yourself
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2913038/figure/F2/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2913038/figure/F1/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2913038/

http://www.eroids.com/pics/blood-test-results-very-weird
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/10518...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/tren-causing-bogus-elevated-estradiol-levels-...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/labcorp-blood-test-showing-high-e2-while-on-tren
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/week-8-bloods...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/e2-saga-continues-still-over-400
http://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/24359/Test%20LAb.jpg
http://www.eroids.com/pics/estrogen-was-3875-on-oct.-3-2013-labs-august-...

yutyut's picture

Great info. Thanks for sharing man. Next time I get bloods it will be thru labsmd.

GearHead316's picture

Here is some info I found on the different types of testing.(copied from another forum) Quest Diagnostics uses the LC/MS to run the Estradiol, Ultrasensitive. This may be why they don't have the erroneously high E2 results that some are getting with LabCorp which I believe uses the ECLIA method.

RIA Direct.
It’s cheap, fast, but not very accurate. Recent studies have been calling into question the use of RIA direct methodology to measure free testosterone . Unfortunately, most labs across the country only use RIA direct because of its cost effectiveness. LabCorp, the lab I used, only measures free T using RIA direct. Despite the criticisms levied at RIA direct tests, many researchers believe it’s an adequate method for routine tests.

ECLIA Method.
When I tested myself for total testosterone for my experiment, the method the lab used was ECLIA, short for Electrochemiluminescent Immunoassay. It’s a fast and affordable method to measure total testosterone in your blood. Many labs use this method because it’s automatic and doesn’t require too much work on a lab technician’s part. However, some studies have shown that values obtained with ECLIA are significantly higher compared to the more reliable LC/MS method. Which brings me to…

LC/MS Method.
LC/MS is short for liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry. It’s considered the gold standard method by many researchers in measuring small molecules. Its accuracy and consistency is why the CDC is recommending LC/MS to be the standard method used when testing total testosterone. Because LC/MS is more sensitive than ECLIA, doctors typically use this method when testing patients with really low testosterone levels, such as women and children. While it’s more accurate and sensitive, the LC/MS method is more expensive than ECLIA. And it takes a bit longer to get your results.

Billy Goat's picture

Thanks for posting this. I haven't been getting blood tests regularly because I haven't felt that Labcorp has been giving me accurate results. I'll check out LabsMD, and see how they compare.

MegaT883's picture

Best and least expensive test while on Tren is labsmd hormone panel for females for 72.99 It's the same test as privatemdlabs but serum testosterone is measured by LC/MSMS and reads over 1500 and estradiol is measured by IA and does not give a false high reading. And of course it is done by Quest Diagnostics. Gearhead it's the ECLIA method that's the problem. The other methods of testing estradiol read correctly. In other words The test your talking about (ultra-sensitive will work as will any estradiol test not done in ECLIA.
If your running HGH with your Tren then get the hormone panel for males which is the same price as privatemd labs. It measures IGF-1 in LS/MS. It also measures Thyroid which is important when running HGH. Estradiol is done in LC/MSMS as is testosterone and free is also measured. Lipids and PSA are also included as are CBC and CMP. A better test for the money than privatemdlabs test. Looks like all the tests we use went up $3 at labcorp and privatemdlabs for new year good old inflation.

GearHead316's picture

Thanks for the info...Wish I had posted a day or two ago...just dropped $227 on four tests with LabsMd. Would of had all those tests and then some if I had gotten the hormone panel....good to know for future testing which will save me $25 each time. Will be starting some Tren in 5 wks or so and Im still trying to get a handle on my E2 so I will be using Quest Diagnostics for blood work...I will keep you updated on my results.

MegaT883's picture

Just remember the only time estrogen reads incorrectly is only with Tren and ECLIA Testing method and Thank you for posting.

RLS's picture

Hey man I'm having the same trouble right now. Lab were sent to the mentioned above.

Running 750mg Sust a week
450 Tren a week
75mg a day anavar
3iu Matrixtropin HGH per day

Test lvl was greater than 1500
Estrogen was 2056!!!! Wtf?!
Started running Aromasin today 12.5mg Ed.

Has anyone tested the progestin and prolactin from this lab? And if so how have the results compared?

I was goin to run the AI for 2-3 weeks then retest everything.

MegaT883's picture

It's a false high reading on estradiol and total estrogens test only. Prolactin and progesterone read correctly.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/updatedwhat-blood-testi...

Denser's picture

Has anyone tested the progestin and prolactin from this lab?

Yes, prolactin. I was taking caber at 1mg per week.

http://www.eroids.com/pics/estrogen-was-3875-on-oct.-3-2013-labs-august-...

kodiakGRRL's picture

what i would like to know is if any of these guys were experiencing any other symptoms of elevated E or was it just the test readings..

gambit's picture

I know this is older but I wanted to add my PC.

I was having some sides from estro but I feel in order to combat them I need to have a general idea where estro and prolactin are at. To me gyno sides can be such a mind fvck that we can trick ourselves into having sides.

Saying that, not knowing the # sux.

During my spring cycle when I do tren and some test I will run this test and see

MegaT883's picture

Most were not. One guy was doing 50mg Tren A ED with 15mg of Test P ED.His test serum was 503 but his estrdiol was 198 on just 15mg of test P. He was taking 6.25mg of Pharma Aro. Another was on 50mg test p EOD / 125 mg tren ace ED. His serum test was 613 but his Estrodial was 371. I listed a bunch of labs and posts of some of the guys reporting back on this. There are more but some have taken their labs down.Take a look. My thinking is this those who are doing higher doses of test and seeing these crazy numbers you may be experiencing sides from the testosterone your estradiol is most probable elevated 100-180. I would dose my AI based on the amount of testosterone your taking and any other AAS that aromatise. In other words I would dose my AI based on my Test serum #'s.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/blood-test-results-very-weird
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/10518...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/tren-causing-bogus-elevated-estradiol-levels-...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/labcorp-blood-test-showing-high-e2-while-on-tren
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/week-8-bloods...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/e2-saga-continues-still-over-400
http://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/24359/Test%20LAb.jpg

cry_havoc's picture

I just finished a cut cycle with low test and tren at 75 a day and masteron at 50 a day. Here were the noteworthy highlights.

  1. Test came in at end of cycle lab at 2600 plus.
  2. I ran .5 adex every 3 days and had no gyno problems what so ever up until my last week.
  3. Coincidentally this was the week that my mast ran out so I finished with just the prop and tren. (I was using a blend to start with).
  4. After the masteron dried up my gyno flared immediately.
  5. Caber at .5 every three days (Prolactin levels came back at .1 which is well below the low side of the spectrum at 4)
  6. Estradiol came back at 842!!!!
  7. I experienced the typical anxiety with tren but mood swings were off the charts and emotions were that of a little bitch! That is a big question to ask here with this post. How were your emotions in conjunction with the so called high estradiol. This to is a legit gauge to measure whether or not the test from the lab is legit. For me I absolutely believe the test as I have never not been able to control my emotions. Glad I live alone!

Later in the week I will post my labs and cycle. I manage to cut about 6% body fat with relative ease and moderate paleo diet with a little bit of Viking wisdom in the food department. Also cardio played a huge role and I rarely burned less than 1000 calories per work out at 5 days a week.

C.H.

MegaT883's picture

CH exactly how much test were you doing a day or wk? Was it 75 mg a day?

cry_havoc's picture

75 acetate per day and 50 prop. Amazing results but have never had estro this high

J.Mc.'s picture

Guys forgive me if this is stupid because I really don't know shit when it comes to this but I read somewhere that they're mixing estrogen with the newer fina pellets nowadays. Could sources be using these new fina pellets in their brew and that in turn causing the high E readings?? I'm probably way off base here so someone please feel free to drop some knowledge on my ass, lol

MegaT883's picture

We thought about that also. These guy are not having any sides and if you've ever done testosterone and had an ,E2 reading over a 100 you know it with water retention,acne,libido problems,fatigue,mood changes etc. You would have some type of side as you E2/test ratio would be off. We're talking about levels of E2 from 240-1100 and no major sides. So in answer to you question no. Most of the labs use a Tren powder that is tested. The other reason I say no is that some of the products used had been lab tested by mass spec and if estrogen was present it would have shown up on those tests.

J.Mc.'s picture

Thanks for the response brother

MegaT883's picture

That's what you have to do if your using Tren. Adjust your AI to the amount of Test your using and any other compound that will aromatise.

MegaT883's picture

We're trying to and it is really looking like a flaw in the testing.

gambit's picture

There is talk around (google) about how tren skews the estrogen tests that most labs use. I myself tested this with labcorp. Was running some decent tren and LOW test and had 4xx e2! anything near 100 i get bad nips issues so thought something was wrong. i let the tren clear (ace) and went back and tested using same # of tren and same lil bit of ai and e2 was 3x (30 something).

i dont understand the science sorry to say.

killroy's picture

Appreciate this post MegaT.

No disrespect to V(z)ewi but I'm not convinced by his explanation. Burning fat and leaving estrogen behind? At these INSANE levels? Why aren't there any sides? This sounds completely wacked. I don't even have that much body fat on me. I've read that estrogen can be stored in fat, and fat has more estrogen receptors... etc. I just don't see the link here. None of us are showing any real sides of VERY high levels of e2.

When my e2 was legit spiking, my nipples were itchy, I had some tenderness in breast tissue. My libido was low... my erections weren't the greatest. That was from real aromatase caused by TNE.

@BillyGoat: if your e2 levels were actually that high, forget the tits, you are on the fast track of male to female hormone therapy. Next stop, lipstick and heels bud.

As more results are posted.... Its clearly evident that this is Labcorp's fault. And these aren't real e2 levels..

I encourage anyone who is on tren, and had their e2 levels tested not using Labcorps ECLIA.... to post results. Then we can develop a real conclusion here.

Owes a Review × 1 In a promo × 2
humpnpump's picture

I may have missed it in reading but what does proviron do with the extra estrogen left over from the tren eating fat.

In a promo × 1
Billy Goat's picture

I use LabCorp for my tests. I ran into this problem with a blood test back on March 28th. At the time, I was running Tren E 700mg/wk Tren A 350mg/wk EQ and Mast E at 525mg/wk each. I was running Clomid at 25mg/day, and I think I was also running 100mg/day Var. The last inject of Test was 125mg Test C around the 3rd week of Feb, so that was out of my system. I wasn't running any ai. My e2 came back at 1107! I posted about this on several boards, and maybe here, too. Everyone was like "Bro, your tren or eq is really testosterone!". Of course, that didn't make any sense since I know what test feels like, I didn't have any estro sides, and even if it was test, 1107 is not realistic. So I began to think maybe it was the clomid, or maybe my tren had estro in it. I got another blood test on May 16th, after I'd dropped the clomid, and had been off Tren for 5 weeks. At that point, I was only on EQ and Deca at a gram/wk each. I still wasn't using any testosterone. I also wasn't using any orals other than Aromasin at 12.5mg/eod or e3d. My e2 came back at a more reasonable 74.6. So, I'd say it's probably LabCorp's testing method. I should also mention that on that last blood test, my testosterone level came back >1500 with only EQ and Deca in my blood. I've read somewhere that some tests can't tell the difference between EQ and Test, but that's another subject.

MegaT883's picture

THANKS for posting. That's a lot of gear with no AI.

Billy Goat's picture

I decided not to run an AI at the time, because I was getting frequent blood tests, and wanted to see what effect the Mast E would have on my e2 levels. The EQ was really the only compound in there that would aromatize. So that's why I was so shocked when it came back so high. Of course, I immediately jumped on aromasin after the test, but again, I didn't really see any estro sides. At 1107, I should have been growing tits! I have the lab report, but I don't know how to upload it. If you know how, let me know, and I'll post it.

MegaT883's picture

If you have a copy on you computer just click on the submit button which is on the black bar up top with the EROIDS logo. The submit button is on the right hand side next to your screen name. Click it and a menu appears scrowl down to the 5th spot which says submit a picture and click on it. A new pages opens up, in thbox that says Picture category choose lab tests. Then click the submit button and another window opens of all the files on your computer. Click where you have the picture file store and click the file and hit open the window will close. Now click upload.once it's up loaded you will see a small picture of it. FIll out the other info such as the name of the src you got the gear, if they on eroids just use one of the popular labs. Fill out the title such as labs on Tren/tren A etc with 1100 estro. I sent you a FR in case you have any questions I can walk you through it.

Billy Goat's picture
snuka2012's picture

No disrespect either. I'm also trying to understand...how would this explain the lack of classic high estrogen symptoms; e.g. gyno/nipple sensitivity, loss of libido?

J.Mc.'s picture

It is an interesting concept but I can't wrap my head around it either.

cry_havoc's picture

Excellent explanation bro

+1