+ 6 Tren Causing Bogus Elevated Estradiol Levels 460+ - Labcorp's Roche ECLIA methodology the culprit?
This is the hormone section of my latest labs. As you can see my estradiol levels are completely out of range and ridiculously high. Please take this into consideration, as I am only using:
- 100mg/EW Test Cyp(USP/RX)
- 200mg/EW Tren E(UGL)
- 500iu HCG 2x (USP/RX)
- .25mg/EOD Arimidex (USP/RX)
- .25mg/2-3x EW Caber (Pharma)
I haven't exceeded 100mg/EW Test Cyp in over 7 weeks.
My doctor is completely dumbfounded by these results and so was I until I did some digging. My testosterone levels were high for 100mg, but considering I had pinned just that morning before the blood draw, its not surprising and my doctor agrees.
I usually follow a 6-7 day clean protocol before submitting for blood work. This time around I just got lazy and complacent and just did it when I had free time, which happened to be the same as pin day.
Now... what is alarming is the estradiol. There is no way in hell with that little amount of test I'm pinning and the little hcg.. that it would aromatize to that insane level. From all the research I've done, Tren simply does not lead to estrogen aromatization.
So I started to do some more digging... and bam. I see reports of people getting the same kind of results, testosterone within 1200-2000 range but estradiol sky high, they all were on tren at the time. Is this because Labcorp's equipment is misidentifying tren as estradiol? Is the Estradiol sensitive ECLIA test flawed when you got tren in you? I would propose yes. But this post is by no means a official study and I am in no way an expert.
I have zero symptoms of high estrogen, I get morning wood, no breast tenderness, no acne, libido is fine, no emotional outbursts, no tearing up during TV commercials, nothing. Last year when I was banging TNE pretty frequent I did get some pre-gyno symptoms when my estrogen was legitimately high. At this point I am pretty confident that Tren is creating a false estradiol reading.
I am rescheduled to take the test again, as the doctor is blaming labcorp for false levels. (heh, I agree) I'm going to drop the tren for now, so I can test normal.
The take away here folks is.... if you are only running trt levels of test and have zero symptoms of high estrogen but have tren in your mix. And your blood work comes back with estradiol at 400+ Don't automatically go nuts on AIs to drive the levels down, it could just be a false reading because of the testing method the lab uses. This same principle could be applied to others on legitimate cycles who are taking all the precautions, AIs etc, and are running high levels of Tren. But please do your own research too.
At this point, I guess I can't run tren during my testing windows for TRT.... I am going to conclude that it does mess with the numbers... not my testosterone but surprisingly my Roche ECLIA estradiol readings. I will post my next labs without the tren, to show a comparison.
ANY FEEDBACK IS APPRECIATED
UPDATE
Here are some google results that may interest you and back up what I'm talking about:
http://www.google.com/search?q=e2+test+trenbolone+site:www.professionalm...
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Quality post. +2 welcome to level 2
Thanks Brother!!
very good read !!!...
beyondimportsSo these issues are with all nor19 or just tren specifically?
Been looking at this hard and it appears its only happening with Tren. Been seeing numerous labs on low test( 100-200mgs a week) with tren (200-700wk) with estradiol elevated.(198-1000). The funny thing is most are reporting they feel fine. No bloat,no water retention,no acne, no loss of libido( most are reporting elevated libido), no loss of erections, increased strength and aggression in the gym, lean muscle gains. They feel great but are freaked out because they don't know what to make of the numbers. Most were on some type of AI either Aro or Adex. Most were on some type of anti-Prolactin(caber,prami)
ah true. that describes me perfectly, i forgot to mention i run dostinex/caber for 2-3x @ .25mg EW
not sure bro. I've only see reports of this happening on Tren... but I threw it out there for more discussion.
+1 very interesting before I started HGH I pulled bloods and was taking tren e also at 100 mg a week and my estro was 319 with no gyno symptoms at the time
Thx brother. Well it looks like we got a pattern don't we? I believe this topic should be discussed more, A LOT MORE..
In the past I've see labs posted here with very high E2 levels... everyone automatically blames the AI as bunk or the gear etc...
If you are running Tren or Deca/NPP and just had your blood tested with results being high E2, I think its important not to jump to conclusions so quickly... and start taking fistfulls of AI. The numbers could be bogus.
Also consider the amount of test you'd have to run to reach those e2 levels even if your AI was bunk.
angusYOU NEED TO START A FORUM SUBJECT ON THIS!!!
I had the same problem, and it showed my e2 at 560:
http://www.eroids.com/pics/e2-at-561.6-holy-crap
Couldn't figure it out, tormented me through my whole cycle. This was actually brought to my attention yesterday from a member who had seen the original article. MegaT883 and I have gone back and forth a little about it but we need to get some more eyes on it.
My bloods that I didn't post showed my E2 completely crashed post PCT. I used HCG to get it back up.
Hey brother, by all means.. please start one. I'd like someone with more authority and experience presenting the case.
angusI asked MegaT883 to do it, he is my goto guy for this stuff because he is as much of an expert as I have ever read or heard of, and believe me when I tell you I've read a lot and heard a lot. many really smart guys on here respect his knowledge. Hopefully he has the time. If not, i'll take a stab at it.
Be this weekend before I can post something up. Someone's back from the Astan got some catching up to do. Found out some interesting stuff so far. I'll have something up by Sun.
MegaT would be excellent - can break things down in layman's terms.
X2 - this appears to be a not uncommon issue that people are running into. Maybe start one w/ a link to this thread and possibly a sticky.
I pulled this from a post by Kaladryn on professionalmuscle:
"Any method that uses electrochemiluminescence (ECLIA and others) seems to show tren as E2. This is a new type of testing method that allows very accurate readings at very low cost. The sensitive test isn't necessary anymore, I think lab companies still sell it, but you are just getting the regular ECLIA test. The sensitive test was necessary BEFORE they started using electrochemiluminescence methodology, but it is no longer necessary. I have no idea why Labcorp still sells it."
So to clarify on this... Is there or is there not a test that can still be used in its place???
From what I gather, the older test would prove useful but it may be damn near obsolete and impossible to find...
This is worth +1 just for shedding light on a POTENTIAL problem. Good job.
thx brother! good hearing from you!
beyondimportsTo me this says your tren may have been made from the tren pellets. Which essentially all available now are packed with estrogen.
Its tren e bro. Likelihood of it being from pellets is near zero. Think about it for a second... The source would go through the trouble of esterfication but skip stripping the estradiol? These days its much more cost effective to just buy esterfied tren raws, then go through the headache. There are plenty of guys (Tren heads) running this sources Tren... The brewer is NOT the guy who would do something like this. It is out of the realm of possibility.
beyondimportsGotcha. Didn't know if it was ace or e. or even from a source on here
.
Is this just a guess of your own or did you find some supporting information somewhere? Thanks
Besides my own labwork..
The only supporting information is anecdotal...mostly from posts on other forums.
Update
Kaladryn on promuscle goes in depth about the testing methods picking up tren as e2.
I just had something similar happen but I did have some high E side effects. I sent you a FR, I'd like to chat with you about it. Thanks
accepted
is your tren, tren?
Even if it wasn't tren, i'm only pinning 1ml of it a week. What could it possibly be to aromatize at that high rate, while i'm on .25mg Adex EOD. It comes from a reputable source from eroids, who had his raws tested. I have no doubt its tren.
quick question are you sure you are taking legit adex? It's very possible to have no symptoms of high estrogen and still have high est
Hey bro, I believe this guy...just to let you know, I saw crazy estrogen numbers running 70mg trenA and 20mg testP ED The numbers weren't going down - got no libido loss, maybe minor nipple sensititivity, if that. I decided to bust out the pharma grade aromasin...and I'm still getting numbers 392. I'm like WTF...didn't make sense until I read this. No way running test at that level could aromatize that much. Doesn't matter now as I dropped the test since I got about a week on this run.
Nice bro. I'm happy to shed some light on this. I'd hate to see people gobbling a bunch of AIs because of false levels.
IMO this subject should be studied and officially reported on beyond my cursory approach. It can prove very helpful for many of us out there .
I think overdosing on AI because labcorp is reporting bogus estradiol levels is dangerous and should be prevented.
No shit re: AI overdose
I was going to do an NPP run next time, but I was thinking I'd try this again maybe next winter/spring to see if it happens again. It sure as hell was a head scratcher.
My adex comes straight from the pharmacy (USP). Its scripted by my TRT doctor.
Now for argument's sake, lets say something insanely tragic happened and my US pharmacy adex is bunk... you think running 100mg of Test Cyp a week could push my estradiol levels that high? Hell even if the tren was really test... do you think my levels would ever reach 460+? That's a lot of aromatization, IMO I'd have to be running a boat load of gear to get there. And happened to be getting bunk adex from a licensed US pharmacy at the same time. I'm talking about pinning 1.5ml of oil (.5ml Test Cyp, 1ml Tren E) a week and using 2mg Adex, consistently. I don't skip doses or change days. That 1ml of Tren E would have to be some superdosed something to lead to this... which I am confident isn't the case. Plus the odds of all this happening at once are crazy, don't you think?
This is my 6th test, first while on Tren... with my levels being this crazy. My blood serum estradiol always has been around 7-36 while on adex.
Mate, I've sent a FR, I have a question for you.
accepted bro
Very useful information...thank you sir!
thanks bro... i will be providing follow up labs soon enough. Keep y'all posted.
waltrgood info
thanks brother... I'm pretty damn sure its a false reading. My new labs will make certain of this.