posted Wed, 02/17/2016 - 08:17
3591
Platelet increase from rbc increase
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So I have a question let's see if anyone knows. A friend of mine asked if a read blood cell increase would also make platelet count rise. They are currently on a blood thinner from a recent health issue but is concerned that if they cycle their regular compounds that are known to increase rbc will it fight the blood thinners by also increasing platelet levels. They aren't comfortable with making an account as I tried to get them to do that. I told them I didn't know the answer and that was that. But it peaked my interest as I like to learn new shit. So does anyone know the answer to this? Just curious.
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My last blood draw clotted while they were running the sample.
TRT @ 200 mg/week
Very good responses. Thanks everyone.
I found this on a preliminary search yet I'll have to look into it further.
"Anabolic steroids may also lead to increased blood clot formation, even when taken only short-term, because they (a) increase levels of clotting factors (= pro-coagulant factors), (b) decrease levels of blood clot-dissolving proteins (= fibrinolytic proteins), and (c) make blood platelets more sticky (= lead to increased platelet aggregation) [ref 6]."
http://patientblog.clotconnect.org/2011/03/01/testosterone-and-blood-clots/
Edit: Alright so the sources are lining up and saying the same thing. Therapeutic trt doses definitely tend to lessen clotting, while AAS abuse leads to increased clotting when doses exceed a certain level. Although this isn't recreated in everyone in every test, it has the ability to occur.
I guess the simple answer is no. Androgens increase the production of EPO in the kidneys which is what leads to the increase in RBC. It apparently doesn't affect the common stem cell progenitor between rbc and platelet making cells (megakaryocytes). Therefore it does not increase platelet levels
What it does do at supratherapeutic doses is supports platelet aggregation and formation of blood clots. Theres a lot of research proving that. Conversely (and confusingly), with therapeutic doses of androgens, it also increases bleeding time by decreasing clotting factors. Which means it inhibits the formation of blood clots.
+1
in english : a cycle on a therapuetic level would increase bleeding time by decreasing clotting factors (platelets) and there by decreasing the formation of blood clots
and a cycle on high doses would increase the clotting factors?
Clotting factors aren't the same thing as platelets but we can think of it that way to keep it simple, definitely. Platelet levels themselves aren't affected by cycling at all.
Yup. Cycling with anything above TRT doses increases thrombin (one of the clotting factors). It also increases something called C-reactive protein which is also linked to causing clots.
thank you for keeping it simple for my simple brain ..... makes me wonder though does the medication work on clotting factors or reducing platelets ?
Anytime miss GRRL
If we're talking about Coumadin, it decreases the production of clotting factors that are Vitamin K dependent. Hence why anyone on blood thinners has to be careful of eating too many veggies, greens, or anything with a lot of vitamin K.
Vitamin K decreases the bleeding time (by increasing clotting factors) in people we're treating to keep their bleeding time prolonged (by reducing clotting factors).
is it safe to assume that the warfarin and heparin classes of blood thinner/anti coagulants work pretty much the same? there are some new ones out there xarelto and lovanox but i think they are similar the oldie but goodies
Yes! They all work on different parts of what we call the "coagulation cascade", which involves the various clotting factors.
Each one has it's own risks which I'm not very familiar with. I'm no cardiologist. I've seen some of the research comparing the meds and the studies are good ones but I couldn't tell you off hand which one is preferred. It varies depending on the medical condition that's being treated. And some of them are better for inpatient use vs outpatient use. Etc.
interesting I appreciate the discussion sorry it wasn't a bit more on your level ;-)
No worries ;) Any time you have a question on anything medicine related don't hesitate to shoot me a pm
great thank you ;-)
StevebIs he taking Coumadin? If so hell no, you can't even take vitamin K with it.
Hate to say it but your AVI hands down is the best shit ive seen all day:)
StevebPutin>Obama
you can't take vitamin k because it is a natural blood thinner .....there are several things you can't eat also on coumadin
StevebVitamin K is in everything healthy. Almost every vegetable has it. It almost seems like doctors who put you on that drug want you to get worse. If you had been eating foods with vitamin k to begin with you'd be very healthy.
you can use vitamin e to thin the blood also .. however, there are several reasons why one develops dvts, pulmonary embolisms. mitral valve prolapses, and genetic factors that play a part in needing to take something like blood thinners. some surgical proceedures cause blod clots also .. I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that... but the stuff is poison and big pharma doesn't want you to eat things with vitamin k and or take vitamin e to make sure that if you did have an issue with excessive platelets that you wouldn't have to take their poison
So... Can I ask the same question but backwards?? I had a lower platelet count but my wbc and rbc were in the middle range.
Both ways can happen.
Depending on how high your rbc is then yes it will eventually. There has to be enough platelets to cope with the mount of blood in the body to stop it from clogging. How high the numbers have to be I couldn't say tony
here is a blood test from 12/18/15 I was as you can see my RBC was high .. platelets was completely normal
WBC 3.8 - 10.8 103/uL 11.5
RBC 4.20 - 5.80 106/uL 7.64
Hemoglobin 13.2 - 17.1 g/dL 8.0
Hematocrit Blood 38.5 - 50.0 % 24.0
MCV 80.0 - 100.0 fL 90.9
MCH 27.0 - 33.0 pg 30.5
MCHC 32.0 - 36.0 g/dL 33.6
RDW 11.0 - 15.0 % 15.9
Platelets 140 - 400 10*3/uL 252
MPV 7.5 - 11.5 fL 8.9
General Information
Collected:
12/18/2015 5:05 AM
My RBC stays slightly above normal 5.9ish gear or no gear. It kind of freaks me out a little bit but not much to be done about it.
that was after being off gear prob fir a month .. I'm sending you a pm
Just been reading and i wouldnt even consider running gear with that stuff in my system.
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/heparin-side-effects.html
Sorry bro, but my answer on this question is risk factor is way to high.
I wholeheartedly agree. There are times to take risks and there are times when not to. My own experience with high RBC and high platelet counts all happened when on cycle so the bro science in me wants to say yes it could definitely corralate. But I also think with the blood thinner use it would still counter the effect of increased rbc to a certain degree.
With that said I'm no doctor and without precise advice based on expert knowledge the only advice we should give is "go see your doctor".
I'm not disagreeing I just didn't know if your rbc increases will your platelets increase also. Just a question I never knew the answer to. Kind of felt a little dumb.
I'd apply that rule to using any anti coagulation drug.
No, not necessarily. Highly possible to have an elevated RBC count and a normal platelet count.
whats he taking to thin the blood.... Warfarin?
Heparin