Mback76's picture
Mback76
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+ 1 Bloods

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First run with dbol, full cycle is 18 weeks.
W1-5 T500, deca250, dbol 1hr prelift w1-2 20mg, w3 30mg, w4-5 40mg.
Week 6-18 test 600, deca 300.

Still waiting on e2, test and igf on bloods, started taking accutane 20mg week 3, dropped to 10mg wk 5.

Liver and lipids took a hit. Bloods will be pulled again end of week 10. I take an array of cups for kidneys/liver/cardio systems. At work so I dont have them all in front of me but your normal pile of stuff fish oil, tudca etc.

Shgb 10
Prlactin 13
Free t3 3.8
Hba1c 5
T3 uptake 46
Tsh .7
T3 3.3
Cholesterol 204
Hdl 27
Non hdl 177
Cholesterol total in hdl 7.6
Triglycerides 66
Alt 85
Ast 52
Hematocrit 46.4
Hemoglobin 14.9
Platelets 399

All others in range vs what im still pending e2 and test

Storm Ayden's picture

Solid that you're pulling bloods mid-cycle and tracking this rather than flying blind. A couple of things stand out clearly enough to act on, though I'll flag upfront that without pre-cycle baseline bloods it's hard to see your personal trajectory where you started determines how much these numbers actually moved. And you're still pending E2, test, and IGF-1, so this is a partial read. But there's enough here to be useful.
Your lipids took the hit you'd expect, and it's the dbol plus the dose jump driving it.
HDL at 27 is low, and your non-HDL at 177 with total cholesterol 204 and that 7.6 ratio is the picture of oral-suppressed lipids. This is classic dbol oral 17-alpha-alkylated compounds crush HDL hard, and you were escalating the dbol (20 then 30 then 40mg) right through weeks 1-5, so this reflects that. The good news: your triglycerides at 66 are excellent, so it's specifically the HDL suppression and the cholesterol ratio that are the issue, not a global lipid mess. The other good news: you're now off the dbol (you're in the week 6-18 test/deca phase), so HDL should recover somewhat from here as the oral clears oral-driven HDL suppression tends to rebound once the oral stops. Your week 10 bloods will show whether it's recovering.
On your support stack for the lipids I'd push you to scale it up, because what you've got isn't enough for the hit you're taking. Specifically: bump your fish oil to 4g with around 2000mg EPA and 1500 mg DHA (the dose matters low-dose fish oil won't move lipids much), and add citrus bergamot at 1200mg, which has real data for improving the cholesterol ratio and HDL. If HDL doesn't recover meaningfully by week 10 off the dbol, that's when the low-dose statin conversation becomes worth having, especially on an 18-week cycle where your lipids sit in a high-risk spot for a while.
Your liver enzymes are elevated, and here's the thing most people miss the accutane.
ALT 85 and AST 52 (ALT elevated more than AST, the pattern from a hepatotoxic oral) reflect the dbol's hepatic load. But you started accutane at week 3, and accutane itself raises liver enzymes and worsens lipids. So you've got two things hitting your liver and lipids at once the dbol AND the accutane. Some of your enzyme elevation, and potentially part of your lipid hit, is the accutane stacking on the dbol, not the dbol alone.
Honestly, I'd question whether you need the accutane at all right now. It's overkill on a cycle that's already stressing your liver and lipids hard you're adding a drug known to hit both exact systems that are already taking damage, for acne management that could likely be handled topically or addressed after the cycle. Running accutane alongside a hepatotoxic oral and an 18-week cycle is stacking liver and lipid insults for a cosmetic benefit. Dropping it from 20 to 10mg at week 5 was sensible, but I'd seriously consider whether it's worth running on cycle at all given what it's adding to your liver and lipid load. If you can drop it, your liver and lipids will thank you.
For liver support, scale up what you're running: increase your TUDCA from 500mg to 1000mg per day, and add NAC at 1200mg. NAC is a glutathione precursor and directly on-mechanism for the oxidative liver stress these compounds cause. The liver enzymes should come down now that the dbol's stopped (test and deca aren't hepatotoxic the way orals are), so if they're still elevated at week 10 with no oral on board, the accutane is your prime suspect.
SHBG at 10 is very low, expected on cycle (high androgen load suppresses it), but it matters for interpreting your pending free T and E2. Low SHBG means more of your test is free/unbound so when test and E2 come back, your free T will be proportionally high relative to total, and your free E2 higher too. With deca plus dbol plus 600 test and crashed SHBG, you've got more free estradiol and progestogenic activity floating around, which leads to the next point.
Prolactin 13 and the deca watch this over the long run:
Prolactin at 13 is in range, but you're running deca 300mg, a 19-nor with progestogenic activity, for 18 weeks. Prolactin can climb over a long deca cycle, and with low SHBG meaning more free hormone, the progestogenic effects are worth monitoring. 13 is fine now, but recheck it if you get prolactin symptoms (libido changes, nipple sensitivity, ED), that's the deca's progestogenic activity, and you'd want prolactin management (P5P or low-dose caber), not an AI. Have that awareness since you're committed to a long deca run.
Now for the positive, hematocrit 46.4 and hemoglobin 14.9 are fine, actually on the lower side no polycythemia concern yet, good for an 18-week cycle (watch it though, it can climb later on deca and 600 test). HbA1c 5 is good, no glucose issues. Platelets 399 is upper-normal but not alarming. Thyroid (TSH 0.7, T3 3.3, free T3 3.8) looks fine. So your kidney/glucose/blood-count picture is in decent shape it's specifically liver and lipids that took the hit, and those have identifiable causes (dbol + accutane) that should partly resolve now the dbol's done.
What should you track on week 10, get the E2, test, and IGF-1 you're pending. Then the key questions: did HDL recover off the dbol, did liver enzymes come down off the dbol (if not, suspect the accutane), where's E2 landing with that crashed SHBG, and is prolactin climbing on the deca. And if you can get a baseline next time, do comparing to pre-cycle numbers tells you far more than isolated mid-cycle values.
Liver and lipids took the expected hit from dbol, compounded by accutane that I genuinely don't think is worth running on an already-stressed cycle. Scale up your support TUDCA to 1000mg, add NAC 1200mg, citrus bergamot 1200mg, fish oil to 4g with EPA/DHA and strongly consider dropping the accutane. The reassuring part: the dbol's done so liver and lipids should improve, and your trigs, glucose, hematocrit, and thyroid are all fine. Track HDL and enzyme recovery, your pending E2/test/IGF-1, and prolactin on the long deca run. You're monitoring well just connect the accutane to the liver/lipid picture and beef up the support, because that's where the damage is.

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Mback76's picture

Also 1st bloods were end of first week cycel (had to reschedule due to car accident) they were
Ast 21
Alt 26
Hba1c 4.6
T3 free 3.4
Igf 189
Prolactin 3.4
Shbg 20
Hemoglobin 16.1
Hematocrit 49.1
Platelets 321
Cholesterol 177
Hdl 39
Non hdl 138
Total in hdl 4.5
Triglycerides 62
Free test 304
Total 1281
Free thyroxine 1.6
T3 uptake 39
Tsh .6
T4 4.1
E2 12
Dhea 375

Storm Ayden's picture

This is the missing piece now we can see what actually moved instead of guessing, and the comparison tells a much clearer story than the mid-cycle numbers alone did. One caveat your baseline was drawn end of week 1, so you already had test and dbol on board, meaning it's not a true pre-cycle baseline your real natural starting point was likely even cleaner. But it's close enough to week 1 to be a useful reference. Here's what the comparison actually shows.
Your liver: the enzyme rise is real but it's the expected dbol/accutane story, and it's not alarming in context.
Week 1: ALT 26, AST 21 (both normal). Week 10: ALT 85, AST 52. So your liver enzymes roughly tripled over the cycle. That sounds dramatic, but it's the textbook response to running dbol (escalating to 40mg) plus the accutane you added at week 3 both hit the liver, and a tripling into the 80s for ALT on an oral plus accutane is within the range you'd expect, not a red flag for liver failure. It's elevated, it's worth bringing down, but it's a predictable drug effect, not a sign something's gone wrong. And critically: you started from genuinely healthy liver values (26/21), so you had room, and now that the dbol's done and you've dropped the accutane, these should fall back toward your week-1 baseline. The week 1 numbers prove your liver was fine before the orals so this is reversible drug effect, not underlying damage. Scale up the TUDCA to 1000mg and add NAC 1200mg to help it along, and recheck if it's not trending back down off the dbol and accutane, then investigate further, but expect recovery.
Your lipids: this is the real story, and the baseline shows exactly how much the dbol moved them.
Week 1: HDL 39, non-HDL 138, ratio 4.5, total cholesterol 177. Week 10: HDL 27, non-HDL 177, ratio 7.6, total 204. So the dbol dropped your HDL from 39 to 27 and pushed your ratio from a healthy 4.5 to a high 7.6. That's a significant lipid shift, and the baseline confirms it's the cycle (specifically the dbol) driving it, not where you started you started in a reasonable place and the oral moved you into high-risk territory. This is the marker that took the biggest hit. The reassuring part: your week-1 HDL of 39 and ratio of 4.5 show your lipids recover to a decent baseline off the orals, so once the dbol fully clears, HDL should climb back toward that 39. Scale up the support fish oil to 4g, citrus bergamot 1200mg and the week 10 recheck (off the dbol) should show recovery. If HDL hasn't moved back up meaningfully, that's the low-dose statin conversation, but give the dbol clearance time to work first.
IGF-1: here's something genuinely useful the baseline reveals.
Week 1: IGF-1 189. That's your reference. When your pending IGF-1 from the current bloods comes back, you can compare against 189 to see what your GH/growth status is doing on cycle. Without the baseline you'd have had no idea if a number was high or low for you now you do. Worth noting 189 at week 1 is a solid IGF-1 level.
E2: the baseline gives you your starting point, and it matters with your low SHBG.
Week 1: E2 12 (on a standard assay, and you had test on board already). That's actually on the lower side for week 1, which is interesting. When your pending E2 comes back, compare to this 12 but remember with deca and dbol in the mix and your SHBG crashed, interpreting E2 is trickier (the 19-nors affect the picture, and standard E2 assays can be thrown off). The key point from the baseline: your E2 wasn't running high at week 1, so if it's climbed significantly by week 10, that's the cycle pushing it. Get the pending E2 and compare.
Prolactin: the baseline makes the deca-watch concrete.
Week 1: prolactin 3.4. Week 10: prolactin 13. So prolactin nearly quadrupled over the cycle. It's still technically in range at 13, but the baseline shows it's clearly climbing on the deca it went from 3.4 to 13, and you've got 8 more weeks of deca to go. This is exactly the trend to stay ahead of. The jump from 3.4 to 13 is the deca's progestogenic activity expressing itself, and on an 18-week run it may keep climbing. This is your concrete reason to get ahead of it now with the P5P/L-tyrosine and to seriously consider the masteron the baseline confirms prolactin is on the move, not stable.
SHBG: confirms the expected suppression.
Week 1: SHBG 20. Week 10: SHBG 10. Halved over the cycle, expected from the androgen load. This matters for reading your free T and E2 (more free hormone), as I told you and the baseline shows it dropping, so your free hormone fraction is rising through the cycle.
The genuinely reassuring stuff the baseline confirms:
HbA1c: 4.6 → 5.0, both excellent, no glucose problem developing. Hematocrit: 49.1 → 46.4 (actually went slightly down, no polycythemia, good though it can climb later). Hemoglobin 16.1 → 14.9, fine. Platelets 321 → 399, both normal. Thyroid stable and in range across both. Free test was 304 with total 1281 at week 1 (high free T, expected on cycle with low SHBG). DHEA 375 at baseline, normal. So your glucose, blood counts, thyroid, and kidney picture are all holding up well the baseline confirms the only things that meaningfully moved in a concerning direction are lipids (the big one), liver enzymes (expected, reversible), and prolactin (climbing on deca, watch it).
What the baseline changes about your plan:
Mostly it's reassuring it shows you started healthy and the changes are identifiable drug effects, not underlying problems, which means they should reverse. The three things to act on: lipids (scale up support, expect HDL recovery off the dbol, statin conversation only if it doesn't recover), liver (TUDCA up to 1000mg, add NAC, expect recovery now the dbol/accutane are done), and prolactin (it went 3.4→13, it's climbing on the deca, get ahead of it with P5P/L-tyrosine and consider masteron, watch for gyno signs). Everything else glucose, blood counts, thyroid the baseline confirms is fine.
So the headline: the baseline shows you started from a healthy place, and the cycle moved your lipids hard (HDL 39→27), your liver enzymes predictably (tripled but reversible), and your prolactin notably (3.4→13, climbing on deca). None of it is alarming given you started healthy and the main drivers (dbol, accutane) are now done but the lipids need support and time, the liver needs the upgraded support, and the prolactin is the trend to stay ahead of on your remaining 8 weeks of deca. Get the pending E2 and IGF-1 and compare to your week-1 numbers (12 and 189) to complete the picture. Good that you got this baseline it turns guesswork into an actual before-and-after.

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Mback76's picture

Boom, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks bro.

Yesterday was the last day on accutane since dbol is done, back acne went crazy and couldn't get it down, was hesitant to start to begin with.

Once again, thank you for your input.

Storm Ayden's picture

Smart call dropping it, and the timing's right dbol's done so the main acne driver is winding down anyway, and you'd already had reservations about the accutane, so trusting that instinct was the right move. The back acne flaring was the dbol-driven androgenic surge plus the dose escalation, that should settle now the oral's out. Here's how to manage it without the accutane, because you don't need a systemic liver/lipid-hitting drug for this.
The foundation is hygiene, this does more than people give it credit for, especially for back/body acne on cycle. Shower daily, and especially right after training sweat sitting on your skin with the androgenic load you're running is a recipe for back and shoulder acne, so don't let post-workout sweat dry on you. Change your towel weekly (a damp, reused towel is a bacteria reservoir you're wiping across your skin). Change your sheets and pillowcases weekly too you sweat into them nightly and then lie in it, which feeds back/shoulder acne directly. Don't sit around in sweaty training clothes. For a guy on cycle with elevated sebum and androgens, this baseline hygiene genuinely reduces the bacterial and sebum load that drives the acne, and it's free with zero downside.
Topicals this is where you actually treat it without going systemic. Salicylic acid (acide salicylique) is your workhorse for body acne it's a BHA, oil-soluble so it penetrates and clears the pores, and you can get it in body washes for back and shoulder coverage. A salicylic acid body wash used daily in the shower hits the areas accutane was treating. Retinol cream for the affected areas helps with cell turnover and is the topical version of what accutane does systemically much gentler, no liver/lipid hit. For body acne, a stronger topical retinoid (adapalene/Differin, available OTC) is more effective than plain retinol and is the go-to for this. Benzoyl peroxide is also worth adding it's antibacterial, kills the acne-causing bacteria, and a benzoyl peroxide wash on the back/shoulders complements the salicylic acid well (just be aware it bleaches fabric, so white towels and sheets).
Now vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) is great for acne. The B5-for-acne approach exists and some people swear by it, but the dose is the thing to get right: the protocols that show an effect use mega-doses we're talking grams, like 5-10 grams per day. The acne protocols use 5-10g (1000-2000x higher). So if you consider trying B5 for acne, it's a gram-level megadose, not milligrams. Honest caveat though: the evidence for high-dose B5 is mostly anecdotal, the megadoses can cause GI upset, and it's a lot of pantothenic acid so it's an optional experiment, not a cornerstone. I'd lean on the hygiene and topicals as the real plan and treat B5 as a maybe-add if the topicals aren't enough. But if you do it, grams not milligrams, or it's pointless.
Now the prolactin, we need to control it. So let me hit it hard: uncontrolled E2 plus rising prolactin on a 19-nor is exactly how you get gyno that appears overnight. Deca's progestogenic activity plus estrogen is the classic deca-gyno mechanism, and it can come on quickly once it starts. So getting ahead of it matters, especially since you're committed to deca for 18 weeks and you've got crashed SHBG meaning more free hormone around.
For prolactin management P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate, the active B6) does lower prolactin and is a reasonable first-line a higher dose (200mg+) is what's used for prolactin control. And L-tyrosine as a dopamine precursor supporting dopamine 3000 mg (which suppresses prolactin) has a logic to it, since dopamine is the brake on prolactin. Those are the gentler interventions. If prolactin climbs significantly or you get symptoms despite them, low-dose cabergoline (0.25mg) is the stronger tool just dose it conservatively, you don't want to crash prolactin to zero (it has roles in wellbeing, libido, immune function). Note caber cause more LVH (left ventricle hypertrophy).
But masteron is the better upstream move and I'd emphasize it: masteron has anti-progestogenic/anti-estrogenic activity at the receptor level, so it works against the deca's progestogenic gyno pathway at the source rather than chasing it downstream. Adding masteron to a deca cycle is a genuinely smart way to blunt the progestogenic sides while also helping with E2 (mast's anti-estrogenic effect). So for a guy on 18 weeks of deca should be worried about prolactin/progesterone gyno, masteron earns its place it addresses the mechanism upstream. The one tradeoff to flag: mast is a DHT derivative, so it can worsen hair loss for the genetically susceptible, and it'll add to the androgenic load (relevant for the acne too, ironically). But for the prolactin/gyno control on deca, it's the right upstream tool.
The critical point to hammer, don't let E2 run uncontrolled while prolactin climbs that combination is the overnight-gyno setup. So the play is to get your pending E2 reading (you're still waiting on it), keep E2 in a controlled range (not crashed, not high), and stay ahead of prolactin on the long deca run with P5P/tyrosine, masteron as the upstream blunt, and caber in reserve if it breaks through. Watch for the early gyno signs nipple sensitivity, itching, a lump forming and if they show, act fast, because deca/progesterone gyno doesn't give you a long warning. Getting the E2 number and adding masteron are the two highest-leverage moves here.

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Mback76's picture

Im still waiting on e2 but test is 3995, free is 1218.5, IGF dropped from 189 to 121. I did pick up the supps you suggested, I had to get mast p Int. Only found mast e from previously used vendors domestic.

Storm Ayden's picture

Before the IGF-1 question your test at 3995 with free test 1218 is genuinely very high, and that's worth pausing on. That's not a criticism, just context that matters for everything else: at that level you're well into the range where the cardiovascular load (lipids, hematocrit, blood pressure) and other supraphysiologic effects climb steeply, so whatever your goals, that number's worth being aware of as you watch your other markers. With your E2 still pending, also keep in mind that much test aromatizing means your E2 could come back high. Just flagging it 3995 is a lot, and it makes monitoring the rest of your panel more important, not less.
Now the IGF-1 dropping from 189 to 121 is a real decline and a good question to be asking. Here are the likely causes, roughly in order of probability for your situation:
The most likely cause: a caloric deficit or being in a cut. IGF-1 is heavily nutrition dependent it's one of the most diet-sensitive hormones there is. When you're in a caloric deficit, eating less, or losing weight, IGF-1 drops, sometimes substantially. The liver produces IGF-1 in response to GH, but that production requires adequate calories and especially adequate protein and carbohydrate under-eat and the liver downshifts IGF-1 regardless of everything else. So the first question is: have you been cutting, dieting, or eating less between these two readings? If yes, that's almost certainly your answer the IGF-1 drop is the nutritional deficit showing up, and it's expected, not alarming. This is the same mechanism that came up with another guy in this thread whose IGF-1 tanked from a reta-driven aggressive cut. So your "might be lifestyle?" instinct is likely right, and nutrition is the biggest lever.
Related: are you running a GLP-1 or anything suppressing appetite, or just eating less by circumstance? If you've got reta, semaglutide, tirzepatide, or anything cutting your appetite in the mix, that drives the deficit that drops IGF-1. Even without a drug, life stress, a busy schedule, or just under-eating does it. Worth being honest with yourself about your actual food intake between the two readings.
Liver status matters too and this connects to your stack. Since the liver makes IGF-1, anything stressing your liver can blunt IGF-1 production. If you've been running orals or anything hepatotoxic, or your liver enzymes are up, that can contribute. Given you're running gear, worth checking your liver markers alongside this. If your ALT/AST are elevated, your liver's under load and that can suppress IGF-1 output. (This is also relevant because that very high test plus anything oral is real hepatic and metabolic load.)
Thyroid can play a role. Low thyroid function can lower IGF-1, since thyroid hormone supports the GH/IGF-1 axis. If your thyroid's been shifting (and we know some compounds affect thyroid), it's a secondary contributor worth a glance if the nutrition explanation doesn't fully fit.
Sleep and stress. GH is released largely during deep sleep, and IGF-1 follows GH. If your sleep's been compromised or you're under significant stress (elevated cortisol suppresses the GH/IGF-1 axis), that can lower IGF-1. So a stretch of bad sleep or high stress between the readings could contribute.
One thing to rule out: are you running GH or a secretagogue, and did anything change there? If you were on GH or a peptide that boosts IGF-1 and the dose dropped, the supply got bad/underdosed, or you came off, that directly drops IGF-1. If you're not running GH, then this is about your natural IGF-1, which is driven by the nutrition/liver/sleep factors above.
So the practical read for you: the most likely explanation by far is nutrition if you've been in a deficit, cutting, or just eating less, that's your IGF-1 drop, and it's reversible by restoring calories/protein. Your "might be lifestyle?" hunch is probably correct. Check: have you been eating less or cutting (biggest factor), how's your sleep and stress been (you mentioned a stressful job elsewhere if that's you, the stress/sleep angle is real), are your liver enzymes up (hepatic load blunts IGF-1), and did anything change with GH if you run it. Run through those and the cause usually becomes obvious. If you've been cutting, mystery solved eat more and it recovers. If nutrition's been solid and sleep/stress are fine and it still dropped, then look harder at liver and thyroid.
The reassuring part: an IGF-1 drop from nutrition, sleep, or stress is fully reversible fix the input and it comes back. It's not damage, it's the axis responding to conditions. Restore the calories (and protein especially), get the sleep, manage the stress, check the liver isn't overloaded, and IGF-1 climbs back toward your 189. So before worrying, honestly assess your food intake and sleep between the two readings that's where the answer almost certainly is.
(Separately, good that you got the supps and sorted the mast P international is fine, and you're right that the ester doesn't change the compound, just the timing.)

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Mback76's picture

Diet has been slightly low, carb intake was cut quite a bit as an attempt to curb much of the water weight from adrol as possible. Diet was 70ish grams carbs a day, one half bagel in the morning/honey-ricecake pre workout/banana after. 220g protein and 70-80g fats. Since dropping the adrol im back to 300-350g carbs, some fruits mostly sweet potatoes and rice. protein same 200-220g, fats down around 50g.

The test I want to drop 400mg for my next bloods. I did not expect 4k total. 200mg wk im between 800-900 total and 300 free. i was expecting somewhere 2500ish/500-600free.

No peptides, no weight loss stuff, have never taken GH (im looking into it at some point, light tho 4iu) thats in the future tho. I haven't gotten more than 4-5 hrs of sleep a night in 20 years. Im an extremely light sleeper, cant get back to sleep once I wake. I also work 10-14 hrs days in the trades but do nap around 2hrs during the day. No issues falling asleep just staying asleep.

Storm Ayden's picture

First your IGF-1 question is answered by what you just told me. You cut carbs hard (70g/day) to shed the anadrol water weight, and IGF-1 is extremely carb and calorie-sensitive that deficit is exactly why it dropped from 189 to 121. Now that you're back to 300 350g carbs, it'll recover. Mystery solved, and it's fully reversible. Nothing to worry about there.
And on the test: your instinct to drop 400mg is reasonable, and you're right that 4k was unexpected. The reason it's higher than your expected 2500 is your SHBG at 10 with SHBG that low, less test is bound, so your total and especially free run higher than the ratio you're used to. Dropping to a lower dose and pulling bloods will get you a more readable, dialed number. Fine plan.
But I want to talk about your sleep, because it's the most important thing in this entire post, and it's the thing GH won't fix.
You said you've gotten 4 to 5 hours a night for 20 years, you're a light sleeper, you can't get back to sleep once you wake, and you're working 10 to 14 hour trade days. I have to be straight with you: that's the actual problem, and considering GH to help with it would be putting a band-aid on something that needs to be addressed at the root. Here's why this matters more than any number on your panel.
Chronic sleep deprivation and 4-5 hours for 20 years is exactly that isn't something you can out-supplement. Sleep is when your body does virtually all its repair: tissue recovery, hormone regulation, immune function, memory consolidation, clearing metabolic waste from the brain. When you chronically short it, the consequences aren't subtle even if you don't feel them: elevated blood pressure and heart rate, increased cardiovascular disease risk, impaired glucose metabolism and insulin resistance, suppressed immune function, increased inflammation, cognitive decline, and yes elevated cancer risk (chronic sleep deprivation is classified as a probable carcinogen, partly through disrupted melatonin and immune surveillance). And here's the part that matters for you specifically: you're stacking that 20 year sleep deficit underneath a heavy gear cycle (4k test) that ALSO raises blood pressure, ALSO stresses the cardiovascular system, ALSO increases your disease risk. The sleep deprivation and the cycle are compounding each other on exactly the same risk pathways. You're hitting your cardiovascular system and your long-term health from two directions at once.
And the "I feel fine, I feel rested" thing I have to gently push on that, because it's the trap. After 20 years at 4 to 5 hours, your perception of normal has recalibrated. You feel "rested" because you've forgotten what actual rest feels like your baseline has shifted so far that chronic deprivation feels normal to you. But your body knows the difference even when your conscious sense doesn't. The damage accumulates silently regardless of whether you feel it. So "I feel okay on 4-5 hours" isn't evidence you're fine; it's evidence your perception has adapted to a deficit, which is exactly how people run themselves into serious problems without warning. The feeling fine is not the same as being fine.
So here's the honest redirect: GH is not the answer to this, and neither is any other compound. Considering GH to improve your sleep is treating the symptom (poor sleep) while the actual problem (20 years of chronic deprivation, a sleep architecture that won't let you stay asleep, and a 10 to 14 hour workload leaving no room for recovery) goes unaddressed. Even if GH marginally improved your sleep quality, you'd still be getting 4-5 hours, still be chronically deprived, still accumulating the damage you'd just be masking it slightly with a drug. That's the band-aid. The thing that actually fixes this is addressing the sleep itself.
What that actually looks like and this is worth taking as seriously as you take your bloodwork:
Get evaluated for a sleep disorder. You describe the specific pattern of "fall asleep fine but can't stay asleep, wake and can't get back down, light sleeper for decades." That's not just "I'm a light sleeper" that's a sleep-maintenance insomnia pattern, and it could have an underlying cause worth identifying. A sleep study could reveal sleep apnea (extremely common, especially in bigger/muscular guys, and it fragments sleep exactly the way you describe you wake repeatedly without knowing why), or it could clarify it's primary insomnia needing a different approach. Given 20 years of this, a sleep specialist is genuinely warranted this is a real medical issue, not a supplement gap.
The lifestyle pieces that actually move sleep: consistent sleep and wake times, a wind-down routine, a cool dark room, cutting screens before bed, limiting caffeine (especially with your long work days when's your last coffee?), managing the stimulant load (if you're running anything stimulating, or that high test is wiring you, that fragments sleep). And the 10-14 hour trade days plus a 2-hour nap the nap might actually be working against your night sleep by reducing your sleep drive, worth experimenting with cutting or shortening it to consolidate sleep into the night.
The honest bigger picture point: you're clearly putting real effort into optimizing the bloodwork, the diet adjustments, dialing the cycle. But you're optimizing the gear while a 20-year sleep deficit sits underneath it undermining everything, and adding more compounds (GH) to paper over it is the wrong direction. The single highest-leverage health intervention available to you right now isn't GH or any drug it's fixing your sleep, because that one thing improves your cardiovascular risk, your cognitive function, your recovery, your hormone regulation, and your disease risk all at once, and it's the foundation the gear is supposed to be building on. Running a heavy cycle on 4-5 hours of sleep is like building on a cracked foundation and adding GH to "help you sleep" is patching the crack with paint.
So: skip the GH-for-sleep idea entirely. See a sleep specialist, get a sleep study (rule out apnea given your exact symptom pattern), put the lifestyle pieces in place, and treat your sleep with the same seriousness you treat your bloodwork because it matters more than any number on that panel, and it's compounding with your cycle on the same risk pathways. Fix the sleep at the root, and you'll get more health benefit than any compound could give you. The band-aid won't hold; the actual repair is addressing why you've slept 4-5 hours for 20 years

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Mback76's picture

You're just a wealth of knowledge brother. Yea the sleep has been an issue. I know the cause, I've finally started going to the VA after being out of the service since 2011. Sleep study is coming in a couple months, severe ptsd. Joined the service as an infantryman in the mid 00's did a few tours. Bs i should've addressed a long time ago. Ive only started taking my health seriously (as serious as I can while also doing the shit im doing) over the past couple years. Im hoping that getting my mind right can get me home more, I stay at work alot because it keeps my mind busy, when my mind isnt busy I can be my own worst enemy and I am not fun to be around. As for sleep apnea, my wife believes I have it, atheist developed it over the past few years and she's a nurse so it's something that's been on my mind for awhile.

I do have a cardiologist friend I grew up with that I see (nothing on books) for ekg yearly, bp and all that is great atm. Just atm as i understand shit can change quickly. My heart is healthy, as week speak anyways. BP avg 110-125/ 60-75. Rhr is 48-55. Highest my BP I've seen was while on dbol(didnt mean to put adrol last post, water retention made me think adrol) 140/80ish. Regardless I do know shit can change quickly as im starting to get older and using aas.

Caffeine isnt a nightly issue but it's a daily issue, I drink 4-5 cups throughout the day. No other stimulants. Don't drink alcohol, use drugs or smoke weed.

I may have to adjust my work schedule, I wake at 2am, get to work by 3 so im home by 5 latest. I could just work 10hr days, and work 5-3. Atleast as a start to adjust my sleep schedule. I was not aware of the cancer relation and that shit scares the hell out of me.

Mback76's picture

Tons of info in these ill have to go over when I get home from work. I have a few bottles of finesteride I got a script for a few months back as a safety net for the future. I'll see if I can find a domestic source for mast that I trust. Most places I've used are out atm. If i have to go international I will and have caber/ai on hand if needed but not using as a proactive type thing. Only if sides arise.

-Infidel-'s picture

Another top notch reply

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Storm Ayden's picture

Always a pleasure to help out a brother out !

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