+ 1 Cycle stack recommendations
My first cycle was just 400 test a few years ago to get my feet wet. I’m attempting to recomp, I have 50lbs to lose and I want to keep lean mass in an 800 calorie deficit.
What I’ve been thinking is 400 test (I’m on 140mg trt), 400 mast, and 100-200 deca. Being somewhat new at this I don’t wanna go too crazy and I want to stick with things that I think are “easier” to manage. Let me know your thoughts? Thanks!
Edit- everyone seems to think I’m 40% body fat or something. I’m 281lbs and my fat free mass is 211. I’m 25% body fat. 50lbs was a rounding thing. It’s closer to 40lbs. The goal is to maintain all the lean mass on the way down the rest of the way. I’m already on Reta, already eating 275g protein, been cutting fo four months and lost 50lbs with one lbs lost muscle so far. (Deca scans every 6 weeks).
My diet is fine. I’m not new to the gym. Nobody here at 25% bf uses gear to maintain lean mass down to 12-15%? Or is it just fun to shit on people that are above 20% bf? I’m a little confused.
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masternakIt sounds like you've put in a ton of work already, man. I agree with sticking to the basics and seeing how far you can get naturally before adding more. Maybe revisit the idea later if you stall out.
Mast isn’t going to do anything for your estrogen. At your body fat Deca would probably raise your estrogen and prolactin even at a low dose. If you’re dead set on running another compound to help keep estrogen in check throw in some EQ.
@RobertB80 and @irongame427 have some sound advice. You could just keep keeping on the way you are until you drop that last 40 lbs then go buck wild.
Test, Reta, diet and training is all you need. You’ve already lost a load of fat. Running mast and deca would likely cause more issues at this point than speed up your goals. Try to look at it that you’ve had amazing results but this is a long run perspective with safer and better results than sprinting to a finish line. Deca certainly won’t help you and imo mast now would be a waste at the very least.
As far as healthy bf% I had to look up “normal and healthy” was surprised to learn you’re right. This is a steroid platform so you aren’t posting to “normal healthy” people. Many are fitness fanatics who are comparing ourselves to fit and athletic people. Running steroids at higher bf than 15% generally comes with greater sides and health risks. Always best idea to lower your bf before cycling and with a low dose as possible until you’re at a better place to increase dosages.
Well done for your journey so far, you’ve lost a lot of weight and sounds like you’re committed to training and your goals. Bit of patience and hard graft and you’ll be flying.
Great advice! That’s it !
Cheers bud, you’ve always offered solid advice and have a wealth of knowledge. I’m fairly new to this so it’s my 2 cents.
Not everyone gets AI effects from mast. I tried and it did not work. Kept it in anyways but I didn’t get what I wanted out of it.
I’m an idiot so don’t listen to me but why not tren? I dropped 20lbs and strength didn’t budge one bits
Edit: never mind I saw that you used you were in your mid 40s
I have a history of anxiety disorders and tren messes with neurotransmitters…
Very sensible, if you’ve got any pre existing issues with anxiety then giving tren a wide birth is absolutely the right move
I started off Micro dosing bc I was worried of all the mental side effects. I have BPD2. I dis associate a bit but I’m aware and able to fight it.
Like I said this is horrible advice but that’s what I did to drop weight and keep strength and muscle. It worked out pretty damn good.
I’m currently waiting for people to flame me for this lol
You don’t know how you’re going to respond to different compounds unless you try them. I’ve had anxiety, paranoia etc from partying too much in the 90s, was fine on first tren e cycle all way through but second one because health wasn’t perfect it affected me more. Don’t think I’d ever do harsh orals as don’t see the benefit outweighing the negatives, but loads of people do them so each to their own. Have found that low level test and hgh work perfectly well. If the guy has a pre disposed condition for anxiety probably sensible to not dabble with tren.
I have slight paranoia, went to years of anger management and cognitive behavioral therapy. Currently running 1cc tren ED like a dipshit. So far just experiencing nightmare and night sweats if I eat to close to bedtime. I’m surprised as to how well I’m handling it. No outbursts no thoughts of being cheated on. I think it has to do with the fact that I’m aware I’m on so I have to be extremely conscious of my actions. The CBT has definitely helped me.
After this I need a deep cleansing lmao. I need to stay away from these harsh compounds and crazy PWOs. I’ve seen some of the physiques on here built off just test and HGH. I need to be doing that.
25% + Deca
Are we really entertaining that now?
No it's not fun to shit on people. And it's not fun to shit yourself either.
Var bro Var
It’s always a mistake posting on these forums. At least until you fit people’s shitty arbitrary criteria. Why would I wanna run more test? So I can recover faster and outlift everyone in my gym by even more. Why mast? To keep my fat ass from e2 issue since I aromatize more than you “worthy” people. Why the small dose deca? Hopefully joint pain reduction.
I can’t wait until I lose the last 40lbs by April and then become pretentious and treat everyone like shit.
Don't lose hope. It's not a mistake. There's always a lesson to be learned between the fine lines. People should be looking out for each other here. I meant no harm if I say that Deca is a bad idea with that high of BF. Then it's for good cause to protect you from making a mistake. Estrogen is definitely harder to manage when you're at a higher percentage. Don't want to take two steps forward and one step back.
This is about upping your metabolism which g h and or VAR would be your best friends for this. Two marks don't make a right don't need to treat others like s*** when you get there but it's good to have goals. And if that's the motivation that it takes then I would consider that necessary. Keep moving. That's what matters
+ For your honesty.
Update- two months later and I’m 18%, decided to hold off on deca and mast like the people in here advised. Did increase my TRT dose a month ago to 450mg test cyp. No e2 issues. Bloodwork looks superb. Still in 1000 calorie deficit, strength is up, got a dexa last week- lean mass up a little. So I’ve lost 85 lbs in 7 months with ZERO lean mass loss. When I get done with the 450 test cycle (12 weeks), I’ll be 10-12%, cruise for a while and then go into a small surplus (250 cals/day) and do another cycle with some other compounds.
My goal is not to be a douchebag. It’s just the more I talk to people that have the type of physique I’m working so hard for, it seems like a prerequisite.
I’m a former powerlifter, I got hurt, lost motivation, and I got it back 10 years later. I’ve worked my ass off to cut 50 lbs in four months and keep my lean mass intact. I’m 46, overweight (currently) and lift 4x/week, 23-27 sets, 70,000lbs volume. While on a calorie deficit that started at 1200 calories that I took down to 800 to avoid catabolism. The goal is to be the (apparently) rare guy with a good physique that’s supportive of people working towards their goals. I ran one cycle of 400test in 2012 and I felt like a million bucks. I want to feel like that again and just avoid estrogen issues. By the time I get done with a cycle, I’d be sub-20% anyways. I’m losing 12lbs/month as it is. 12 weeks I’d be probably 30lbs lighter and 15%-ish. I’m not going to gain muscle in the deficit, I’m just going to feel better and stronger and more recovered as I hit the maintenance calorie phase. Sounds so terrible.
It sounds like you have the grit and dedication for what it takes to get to where you want to be. That type of focus in drive is worth its weight in gold so don't let anyone ever discourage you. You only need to compete with yourself not others. So forget about them. Do you have a trainer? You might be seeking advice in the wrong places. Those that want it most will shine the brightest when they get there. They will always reach back and pull a brother up. They know what it took to get there. Yes there will be piss ants. Crush them. And keep marching forward. It sounds like you're gaining momentum, so don't stifle push harder
I’ve decided to go sort of middle of the road… I put the deca and mast on the shelf for late spring and I’m going to do test 140mg 3x/ week. So 420 total. I have AI on hand if I need it. I’m sure that sufficient to keep the mass until I get below 20% and give me a decent strength and recovery bump on the way down. I really do appreciate your advice and your attitude about my situation. You were easier to talk to than a lot of the dicks on here. I’ll post an update at some point.
I don’t have a trainer- I can’t imagine any of them knowing more than I do. I was a powerlifter for years, and I know what I’m doing. But as we all know, there’s knowing what to do, and then there’s DOING it. Which is what’s happening now. I know that deca was not ideal for me, but I still think for what I’m doing, test and mast seem reasonable. I was considering a low dose of deca for joints more than anything. But that’s not a big deal for me. I’m constantly told that as I get closer to my goal, it’s INEVITABLE that I’ll give up muscle and strength. I understand the science behind it. And honestly, if I lost 10lbs of lean mass, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, but I’d just rather be 240@12% than 228 or something at 12%. My opinion is that a guy who’s 5’9”, 240 @ 12% is just the beast I wanna be. If I lose the muscle in the cut, then I’m going to get down to 12% and then get on a cycle and calorie surplus just to get the muscle I already have. I haven’t heard any compelling evidence outside of “you’re 25%, you’re gonna aromatize” to not do it. If someone has some, I’d be receptive. But “nobody at 25% should be on gear” is not compelling evidence, it’s dogma at best or just gatekeeping.
Ranger3252What in the actual fuck is Var going to do? Maybe Helios or Ozempic SMH
Neg me all you want. Shows how insecure you are.
You like to go toe to toe with pictures. I'd mop the floor with you. I've put in the work. Show some respect. Oh
Fuck your ozempic. I’m on Reta.
You know when I have a difference of opinion with someone I don't go around negging them I'm more of a man than that. If someone insults me directly then yes I will neg them.
You don't like it. It's not my problem.
I'm not here to play candyland with someone too scared to put some pictures up of themselves but have all this karma. That's pathetic in itself. So in my books I do deserve that neg now. I earned it. Like a man
And I'll say it again yes Var. So get that thumb hopping and show how much of a man you are.
Is this how we treat new members with the tag new next to their name around here? You're a real gem for this community.
Ranger3252As far as pictures are concerned a lot of us on this board have what’s called “standards of employee conduct.” Also, we have full body tattoos that is a sure giveaway to said employer, therefore, breaking the contract of the standards. Thus, losing your job, along with the possibility of LE intervention. So, being scared is completely the opposite of being intelligent you fucking moron. You think I’m giving up a 6 figure job to post a pic to work at the same drive thru you work at?
So where's the law that says you're fired because you're automatically on gear because we know so and you're fired for having a fantastic body.
Oh but you make six figures and they would just really want to get rid of you and make you piss in a cup and somehow prove it.
You see you're a pissant. I'm a bodybuilder. Big difference. Hand clap bravo yada yada your insecurity shines. One day you'll be a man one day. You've negged me four times in a half hour and I haven't negged you once. Is it the tattoo of bitch across your forehead that's the dead giveaway to your boss? Good nite
Yeah we've heard that one a million times. Go piss on yourself maybe you'll grow some muscles. Until then inflate that ego here.
By the way that was the most typical shit eating response. I don't care about money or where you work. So you're a scaredy cat and a fraud. Cool. Nice to meet you
Ranger3252What is var going to do with a person whose BF is 28%? I’ll wait…
dude gave a legit reply to you below but yet you sit here silent.
You're afraid to put a picture of yourself. You negged eight times in a row all across this community according to your activity. You make six figures but here you are sitting in a promo!?
Most of your negs are targeting new members. So you're broke insecure and a total fraud am I missing anything else? Bravo. you're an embarrassment.
Your 255 at 8%? You're scamming the members you're scamming the admin and you're scamming the sources. Write your name on a piece of paper holding up in front of your face and put up a picture even if it's just for an hour. Nothing worse than a bottom feeding thief liar. Luckily it appears there are still some quality members around. Next time watch where you step
Maintain/build muscle while reducing his body fat down as much as possible???
https://wittmerrejuvenationclinic.com/the-impactful-benefits-of-oxandrol...
You'll be waiting a long time. I don't reply to people with high karma and zero pictures of themselves that are being constantly updated with their progress. In my books you're a total fraud. Blur the face out hold up a newspaper do what you got to do. I've put in the work in your opinion means nothing to me. Neg me for a third time why don't you.
In a case that went over your head. You're all giving somebody advice with 25% bf wanting to use deca.
Right there. No mention of those two factors. that was my point. Run along now ranger boy.
Ranger3252Well, you just did multiple times you dumbass. So, which is it? You don’t reply to people with karma or people without pics? Oh wait, you’ve been doing both, Bravo!! Hands clapping!
Not debating my reasoning with you of choosing VAR. Is far different than defending myself for getting neged for no reason.
Like I said I do it if someone directly insults me. And yet I still have not negged you. Yet here you are going off like a little crack whore on cocaine because I insulted your fragile ego about not having any pictures because you're a total fraud. How quaint. I don't want you intrude on your little bubble of an ego here. But you have zero pictures and 500k that just speaks volumes.
I've been here one day and haven't had a chance to post pictures and you're treating new members like this? Because you're the self righteous know it all and if someone doesn't say ozempic like you do then they are all just a retard? Is this the standard around here?
It's not a good look. I'm calling you out. Put up some pictures anything. I doubt your sleeved from head to toe. Obviously you know you can delete them the very next day what are the chances of your work finding out. It's more like you're a total fraud. The old I make six figures got so many tattoos can't get fired from work. HA
I've been around the block with your mama to know that you were just a twinkle in her eye before you came into this world. Post-up or shut up. I think the whole community is waiting now. No?
If you’re 25% bodyfat you can drop to 15% in an 800. Calorie deficit naturally and not lose any muscle. Not hard to loose fat and retain muscle when your BF is high. Even up to 1000 calorie deficit for the first 5-8% bf you got to lose. With good diet and training naturally you shouldn’t have to worry about losing muscle until 15% minimum.
So running gear at this point is a waste. Spend another 4-6 months in an 800-1000 calorie deficit losing 30-40 more pounds of fat which should get you down to a much lower BF. And then run a cycle and gain some muscle while losing even more .
Id run Primo if I were you. Id run low dose test and low dose of primo. 350mg a week of each. Im amazed at how well primo helps me retain muscle in a caloric deficit. If money isnt an issue. But 350 of primo for 10 or 12 weeks isnt that much, its not unrealistic. But mast and deca in those doses will work well, if thats what ya wanna do.
Ranger3252You need to lose the weight without gear man. Stick to a TRT regiment until you lose at least 30-40 lbs. Gear isn’t going to help with the many lbs to shed. Mast will do zero for you unless you’re already ripped which it sounds like you’re definitely not trying to drop 50 lbs. Get your diet and cardio inline.
I’ve lost 50lbs already. My diet and lifestyle is as dialed-in as anyone. I mentioned 50lbs I need to lose, but I rounded. I do dexa scans every six weeks, my lean mass plus bone is 211 lbs and I’m 25% body fat. Not the friggen whale that I apparently sounded like. The point of the gear in this scenario is not to bulk, but to maintain as much lean mass as possible in the rest of the cut. What’s the point of losing the weight and then having to bulk back up what I lost in muscle mass? Seems inefficient if I can keep it in the first place. People who are 25% body fat shouldn’t use gear to finish a recomp to avoid muscle loss?
Ranger3252I gave you solid advice and you literally just said you’re looking to drop a total of 100lbs, while losing 50 already. That’s insane. If you lost 50 already why do you need AAS? Keep the diet going and don’t touch anything but a low dose of test. And yes people that have 25% body fat should not touch steroids ever. You can maintain muscle loss in your situation by working out and eating right. Also, who wants to drop 50 for pounds at 211?
So if I keep the 211 lbs of lean mass, I’ll be 12% at 240lbs. And I’m 281 right now.
Ranger3252Huh? I’m not a fortune teller
Are you already pretty muscular? Honest question. 5'9"/211lbs at ZERO % body fat describes a guy with quite a bit of muscle. If that's the case then congratulations. If not... Then something isn't adding up.
Unless I'm missing something.
Yes, I’m already very muscular. I was a powerlifter until about 10 years ago. I got injured and gained the weight.
I have 3 dead scans to verify this. I’m nowhere near as strong as I was 10 years ago, but I’m 46, 1rm bench is 435, and I’ve only been back to the gym for 4 months after 10 years of lethargy. My arms and legs are 17% bf (dexa scans separate mass by limbs/torso, etc) and the biceps are 19 1/4”and quads are 27”. I’m not a rookie in the gym. Just newer to gear.
Ranger3252Post a pic of your muscular body please. I’m getting turned on, myself and @randomdude are currently naked with limp dicks in our hands. Post!!!!
Limp? Speak for yourself.
GOD DAMN that's a big bench boy. You got that strong natty?
Nobody trying to pick you apart here man. Just a bunch of shit talkers.
Typically, if you're carrying extra fat ur gonna have more sides on test. You probably already know that. Main thing is just take care of yourself. If you're getting regular blood work you can obviously mitigate the health hazards a bit. And if ur gonna stack compounds on top of test, just make sure they work synergistic with what you're trying to accomplish.
Good luck man.
The old 1rm was 505, but I’ve definitely lost a step.
I am aware that my additional fat is going to cause more estradiol issues, which is why I was thinking about mast. Otherwise, I’d just do more test, but I was trying to avoid using AI, not because I thought masteron would get me ready for a bodybuilding stage or something, lol. Not only am I nowhere near that, I’m not even interested in that.
When people get sub-25% and cut, catabolism is a bigger problem than when you have a ton Of fat stores to work off of. It’s physically impossible while being natty to lose only fat and no muscle as you lean out. I was just coming on here to get some opinions on the cycle, not to get fat-shamed. I’m aware I’m overweight. I’ve worked VERY hard to lose the first 50. I have about 41 to go, and I wanna be strong and keep the lean mass on the way down. Lifting and protein only protect muscle to a point. I agree the deca is reaching a bit, but joint pain is a real thing when you’re 25% and 46 years old. that’s why I was looking for opinions. Not to troll, and not to just open myself up to get fat-shamed, but I’m not as far off from belonging in this group as maybe my bf% suggests.
Right on. You will get there. If you have already lost more than half ur goal weight you are well on your way.
Get active in the forums. It's fun AF. Lots of knowledge around here from the veterans (not me). Everyone belongs here. Not as much judgement as you think.
You mentioned the bench- Not that I’m in the position to give advice, but I found the best way to blow up your bench is super-heavy negatives. Just get good spotters. I would do negatives once a month that were 75lbs heavier than my 1rm. That gets your bone structure and ligaments and tendons more prepared for higher weight and makes going up easier.
Hell yea thanks for the advice man. I'll have to give that a go sometime.
Honestly I don't heavy flat bench much anymore. It's never really been a size builder for me, and if I get too wild with it, takes a long time for my shoulders to stop hurting.
im getting old too buddy.
That’s me with squats. The knees can’t do it anymore.too old